Standard New Deck Creation

[Mclewy]

Hi guys,

I've been playing the last couple of months using a Talonflame Deck but I've found that being left with a Fletchling becomes a disaster far too often.

Saying this with Blacksmith and some other cards I use falling out of the Standard rotation in the coming months and think I should start to look at building a new deck..

With this in mind I am open to suggestions and happy to buy some new cards (don't want to spend a fortune and don't want to buy any that will fall out of rotation). I have seen that a few of the new tournaments that players are starting to run a Decidueye / Vileplume deck but some of these are still rocking Shaymin ex etc which kind of defeats the point of what i am after.

I know that this is very open ended but looking for some advice on what i should start building around.

I have a full set of Steam Seige at my disposal and hoping to base it around one of those guys... but have a few other Ex cards Like Hoopa that i am happy to work with.

Thanks in advance!

 

[mordacazir]

Blacksmith

Sorry but blacksmith is already expanded, not standard. And could you give a decklist?

 

[AlphaVoxel]

Here is what I have had recommended to me recently:

It is a Solgaleo/Lunala deck recommended to me by JessAlakasam. It is pretty budget friendly, but still pretty good (No Shaymin too!)

 

[jessalakasam]

Honestly budget decks will be more popular next rotation with Shay rotating, right now the only really cheap deck is Greninja who died with the popularity of Lurantis and Decidueye. another Cheap rogue is Typhlosion which can quickly dish out heavy damage




Oh yeah and that Solgaleo/Lunala deck I made that got reccomended by @AlphaVoxel also cheap and powerful

 

[swan]

Firstly, solgaleo/lunala has very little synergy (max potion and different weaknesses are the only things in your favour over just running 1 or the other).
Secondly, if you have a lot of steam siege at your disposal I strongly suggest you build xerneas BREAK. I've recently been testing it and it has good matchups across the board, with the only exceptions being Mgardevoir STS and Mscizor where the matchup isn't bad, but there just isn't anything good about it. I've been compiling some notes and things for players interested in the deck on 6p. Just avoid being drawn in by stuff like giratina-EX and snorlax-GX and it's pretty cheap and possible without shaymin-EX, however it can really hurt not playing shaymin as you don't draw a supporter about 1/3 of the time t1. (Did the maths) Aside from that, the game goes well; the deck is very strong.
Edit: straight talonflame is so fun, isn't it? Especially when playing against decidueye and lurantis/plume.

 

[Mclewy]

Sorry but blacksmith is already expanded, not standard. And could you give a decklist?

thanks for that, I thought it was going out of rotation soon. this is what I was running, I know other cards are not in the standard Aka why I'm happy to put this whole deck aside as I've been Battling mates but now I'm looking at playing others which will require a standard deck

POKERMON

FLECTHLING x2 (sts)
FLECTHLING x1 (gen)
Flecthinder x 2 (sts)
Talonflame x4 (sts)
Talonflame break x3 (sts)
Charizard x 1 (evo)
M Charizard x 1 (evo)

Trainers
Evosoda x 3
Nestball x 2 (s&M)
Professor kukui x 1 (S&M)
Professor Sycamore x 2 (sts)
Blacksmith x 4
Hard charm x 1
Giovannis scheme x 1
Ultra ball x 4 (S&M)
Lysandre x 1
Professors letter x 1
Pokémon Centre lady x 2
Enhanced Hammer x 2
Team skull Grunt x 1
Charizard sprit link x 1
Silent Labs x 1
Super scoop up x 1
Specail charge x 1
Steven x 1
Muscle band x 1


Energy
Burning energy x 4
Fire energy x 12

 

[Mclewy]

Here is what I have had recommended to me recently:

It is a Solgaleo/Lunala deck recommended to me by JessAlakasam. It is pretty budget friendly, but still pretty good (No Shaymin too!)

Thanks for that, it looks intresting and i have both of the main Gx's in play as well which is handy, i might have a play and see if i like that way it plays!

 

[swan]

The roaring skies fletchling has 50hp, which is more important than the search attack due to decidueye-GX.
Kukui > giovanni (not in the rest of the pokemon world though)
Play 4 fletchling, that way you don't bomb nearly as badly when you have to start with 1.
Charizard won't really work without blacksmith.
evosoda isn't that great as it can't search fletchling (level ball)
nestball isn't as good as level ball
Run another fletchinder
The roaring skies fletchinder is best as it can actually help out (free retreat too)
hard charm is also out of standard rotation
2 lysandres doesn't seem neccessary as you always have aero blitz, but 2 lysandres are very useful, especially against decidueye and vileplume decks.
professors letter, why???
centre lady, not really that great here but if it works for you go ahead. (170+60=230, PCL only prevents 2HKOs from damage between 90-110)
enhanced hammer isn't excessively relevant right now.
team skull grunt, sure.
M charizard won't really work with only 1 charizard and 1 spirit link.
silent lab should not be plural if there is only 1 copy
super scoop up also rotated in september 2016.
special charge isn't neccessary. Most lists don't even play 4 burning energy, however that is personal preference.
Muscle band is not in format
more sycamore + N + Ace trainer + potentially teammates.
That about sums up what I can advise on the deck/clarify what is not in standard format anymore.
Oh, also rare candy is pretty darn useful!

 

[Mclewy]

Honestly budget decks will be more popular next rotation with Shay rotating, right now the only really cheap deck is Greninja who died with the popularity of Lurantis and Decidueye. another Cheap rogue is Typhlosion which can quickly dish out heavy damage




Oh yeah and that Solgaleo/Lunala deck I made that got reccomended by @AlphaVoxel also cheap and powerful

i hade a couple of people Suggest Greninja break/talonflame deck to me at our local venue but didnt think he was really going to be relevant going forward... ihavent looked into Typhlosion but could be interesting... so Essentially the idea would be to still run 4 talon flames for set up purposes?

 

[swan]

Thanks for that, it looks intresting and i have both of the main Gx's in play as well which is handy, i might have a play and see if i like that way it plays!

Problem is, solgaleo/lunala-GX in the same deck feels/is really bad to play when you don't get both GXs down quickly. e.g. you get N'd after aero blitz or don't start with talonflame; it isn't great fun...

typhlosion is interesting. However no one has of yet found a build that works really really well; You could be the one to do it!

 

[Mclewy]

The roaring skies fletchling has 50hp, which is more important than the search attack due to decidueye-GX.
Kukui > giovanni (not in the rest of the pokemon world though)
Play 4 fletchling, that way you don't bomb nearly as badly when you have to start with 1.
Charizard won't really work without blacksmith.
evosoda isn't that great as it can't search fletchling (level ball)
nestball isn't as good as level ball
Run another fletchinder
The roaring skies fletchinder is best as it can actually help out (free retreat too)
hard charm is also out of standard rotation
2 lysandres doesn't seem neccessary as you always have aero blitz, but 2 lysandres are very useful, especially against decidueye and vileplume decks.
professors letter, why???
centre lady, not really that great here but if it works for you go ahead. (170+60=230, PCL only prevents 2HKOs from damage between 90-110)
enhanced hammer isn't excessively relevant right now.
team skull grunt, sure.
M charizard won't really work with only 1 charizard and 1 spirit link.
silent lab should not be plural if there is only 1 copy
super scoop up also rotated in september 2016.
special charge isn't neccessary. Most lists don't even play 4 burning energy, however that is personal preference.
Muscle band is not in format
more sycamore + N + Ace trainer + potentially teammates.
That about sums up what I can advise on the deck/clarify what is not in standard format anymore.
Oh, also rare candy is pretty darn useful!

Thanks, I have had a lot of fun with the deck, except when you don't pull Talonflame at the start. we have only just been getting back into it and have had a mixture of old and new cards.. part of this deck was built around slowing down a friend who is rocking a really strong Fighting deck and with Talonflame being resistant -20 and adding a hard charm really helped. but as we are moving forward we have all decided to scrap cards that aren't in the current rotation.. aka why i'm looking for something that falls into standard to play.

I've tried Volcanion and houndoon ex's but didn't like the Combo.... so thought i would try the Charizard but didn't have much luck aka wasn't going to stay in the deck. i thought about running a Tauros gx and Ninja boy to but wasn't sure if it defeats the purpose not running any double colorless.

what else would you have run in those spare spots to stall whilst you build up the talon flames

although i feel that this deck will take a massive hit since the loss of blacksmith

 

[swan]

Thanks, I have had a lot of fun with the deck, except when you don't pull Talonflame at the start. we have only just been getting back into it and have had a mixture of old and new cards.. part of this deck was built around slowing down a friend who is rocking a really strong Fighting deck and with Talonflame being resistant -20 and adding a hard charm really helped. but as we are moving forward we have all decided to scrap cards that aren't in the current rotation.. aka why i'm looking for something that falls into standard to play.

I've tried Volcanion and houndoon ex's but didn't like the Combo.... so thought i would try the Charizard but didn't have much luck aka wasn't going to stay in the deck. i thought about running a Tauros gx and Ninja boy to but wasn't sure if it defeats the purpose not running any double colorless.

what else would you have run in those spare spots to stall whilst you build up the talon flames

although i feel that this deck will take a massive hit since the loss of blacksmith

Well, I've never played it with blacksmith. We have exp. share to conserve the odd energy, but it only works while hitting with aero blitz. I have also adopted a Max Elixir for energy acceleration. It's a card that gets worse as you play more copies so I stopped at 1.
Ninja boy doesn't work with evolutions: With fletchling starts we generally have to grin and bare it, hoping to hit a candy into talonflame, however tauros-GX is a good call. Double colourless energy isn't neccessary to play tauros, just put 1 down on him and put him active. If there are no takers, just setup behind him. We do need to play 1 non-talonflame attacker just to keep going in this deck. A couple of super rods are also good for solving this problem (can put energy back in before launching that elixir too!)
I play a couple of burst balloons to make up for damage output that I miss out on without blacksmith. I'm also using a full compliment of vs seekers (a bit pricey -> could be changed to stuff like additional N). I like to focus on keeping a stream of talonflame and occassionally being able to flare blitz with only 2 burning energy in my deck. Without any major [R] acceleration I feel talonflame has to play more conservatively.

 

[Mclewy]

further to our discussions i started playing with two different decks over the last months.

The first of the two is a Volcanion Deck and the other an Vesipqueen/ Vileplume deck

Both Have there positives and negatives. the Volcanion deck is great atm because people seem to be playing with decidueye gx, but finding that having little energy can back fire at some times...

im running

4x Volcanion (sts)
4 x Volcanion ex (sts)
1x Hoopa ex (ao)
4x Talonflame
2x Oranguru

15 x Fire energy

4x Sycamore
2x lysandre
2x n
2x olympia
1x skyfield
1x scorched earth
4x max elixir
4x trainers mail
4x vs seekers
2x escape rope
2x fighting fury belts
2x float stones


and the other deck

4x Combee (ao)
4x Vepoquen (ao)
3x Oddish (ao)
3x Gloom (ao)
4x Vileplum (ao)
3x yamana (sts)
3x yanmega (sts)
3x unknown (ao)

4x double colourless
6x grass energy

4x Sycamore
2x skyla
4x Ultra ball
2x N
2X trainers Mail
1x Team mates
1x Forest of giant plants
1x lysandres
2x rare candy
4x level ball

But the Vespiquen/vileplume deck seems to be more enjoyable to play! but i'm finding the draw back is due to the weakness of the Vespiquen only having 90hp
and taking a fair amount of time to build up a strength with discarding Pokemon with Ultra balls and Sycamore.

one of the guys i test against is rocking a regirock/zygarde lycario ex deck which i think one of them isn't standard but none the less they can deal good damage at turn one. with the special energy and regirocks ability and can kill vespiquen turn one if not turn 2... so with that in mind have any of you trailed these decks and have some improvement or tips on how to strengthen these decks!

i thought about having some Pokemon like magnamite with self destruct but giving my opponent a easy prize card inst ideal!

 

[Darkness3827]

Vespiquen is good in Expanded, but it has really weakened in Standard with the loss of Battle Compressor. I just don't see how you will be dealing enough damage. Also IDK how popular it will be, but one of the new Oricorio cards absolutely destroys Vespiquen (the attack is for 1 Colorless: put a number of damage counters equal to the number of Pokémon in your opponent's discard in any way you like), not as bad as if you were running night march (where it is basically a board wipe), but it will still be doing a lot.

Personally I think Volcanion is a much more fun deck and a lot better one (item lock decks are incredibly boring, even if it isn't your main plan. Vespiquen and Night March are also just annoying decks).

 

[swan]

I'd like to add talonflame break as a hilarious deck to beat decidueye-GX/plume with!

 

[RedSuinit]

Problem is, solgaleo/lunala-GX in the same deck feels/is really bad to play when you don't get both GXs down quickly. e.g. you get N'd after aero blitz or don't start with talonflame; it isn't great fun...

typhlosion is interesting. However no one has of yet found a build that works really really well; You could be the one to do it!

I don't run Talonflame, instead I run a 2-1-1 Umbreon Espeon for this exact reason. This really helps you get out that ideal setup for the Lunala/Solgaleo GX decks. I've had a lot of success with it at my local league.

 

[swan]

I don't run Talonflame, instead I run a 2-1-1 Umbreon Espeon for this exact reason. This really helps you get out that ideal setup for the Lunala/Solgaleo GX decks. I've had a lot of success with it at my local league.

I'm confused as to how umbreon and espeon-GX are good stand-alone attackers?
If a lunala or solgaleo (or other stage 2 (not grass type)) player wants to avoid N, just don't rely so much on talonflame -> candy: play more stage 1.

 

[RedSuinit]

I'm confused as to how umbreon and espeon-GX are good stand-alone attackers?
If a lunala or solgaleo (or other stage 2 (not grass type)) player wants to avoid N, just don't rely so much on talonflame -> candy: play more stage 1.

Paired together, they're actually really strong. Confusion can be a real pain for high retreat Pokemon, and Shadow Bullet is awesome for setting up multiple knockouts.

 

[Asmer]

I'm confused as to how umbreon and espeon-GX are good stand-alone attackers?
If a lunala or solgaleo (or other stage 2 (not grass type)) player wants to avoid N, just don't rely so much on talonflame -> candy: play more stage 1.

They aren't. Well... you can somewhat argue in favor in Umbreon GX, since he's basically a slightly worse Darkrai EX from Dark Explorers, but besides that, they're both pretty lackluster as a whole.

Having actually played Solgaleo/Lunala... the deck is not good. It's clunky and it relies a lot on being able to successfully set up a weird mix of Solgaleo wombo in to Lunala when, in all reality, you can simply play Solgaleo with something better, like Lurantis GX, for more stability. The main problem with Lunala GX as a whole is that it requires 4 Energy to attack with as well as 4 Psychic Energy, of all things. Plus, moving them around isn't all that impressive, especially since most Psychic Pokemon already have better, more established strategies at the moment. M Mewtwo Y is simply better by itself. Things like Lugia EX or Tauros GX or even some sort of Pancakes Strategy (with Snorlax GX) all fall in to better positions with other decks/Pokemon. Trust me, I wanted Lunala GX to be really good, but it simply is lackluster.

That all said... It seems most of the Steam Siege suggestions have already been said. You could maybe try out M Gardevoir EX and I know @swan has more experience with it than I do, so he could help you there if you want. Besides that... I think Volcanion EX would be the best bet.

Also, I must now find a formula for Typhlosion. Great.

-Asmer

 

[AlphaVoxel]

Ok, at this point, I have NO IDEA who this thread is addressed to, but to all those who still may be listening/arguing/etc, here is what I have to say.

I personally love playing variants of Lunala/Solgaleo, others dont. I get that. We all wish certain cards turned out better, but wishing doesn't get us squat. The key to playing is making these apparently lackluster cards work not only well, but to your advantage. Before I continue my manifesto, I have a few questions to the maker of this thread, or whoever is looking for a decent deck to play.

1. Are you looking for Standard, or Expanded?
2. Why are you trying to play? For fun? Or competitively?
3. What do you like playing as far as a deck goes?

You see, As soon as these questions can be answered, you can find out where you want to go. This is a complicated game. Trying to win is like walking though a minefield blindfolded. Yet, the most satisfying thing in the world is playing against a top tier deck with a very mediocre/uncompetitive deck, and winning. The look on your opponents face is priceless.

If you want to play competitively, go for it. If you want to play for fun, give 'em one heck of a battle. A long time ago, I adopted this one simple ideal: Screw the Meta.

Good luck, and have fun!
-AV