Discussion New to Expanded w/ a Q... What happened to Virbank + Laser?

[Grey Matter]

So I'm pretty new to the expanded format. I was reluctant to start playing the format because I had only gotten into the game for a short period and I wanted to get a better understanding of modern play before diving deep. But now that I'm enjoying myself in standard, I figured why not try and look at Expanded.

When I first started playing last year, I noticed that a lot of expanded decks had Virbank City Gym and Hypnotoxic Laser. However now, I was perusing a few regional decklists and noticed most decks didn't include those two cards. I was wondering what happened to them and if they are no longer relevant or if their usability has drastically decreased. I picked up a couple in anticipation for Darkrai-GX, but as it stands now, are they not viable?

 

[Otaku]

Power creep marches on.

Slightly less simplified, there are a few basic game principles that apply.

1. Larger card pool = less effective deck space: While a 60 card deck is still a 60 card deck, every time we get another competitive card released, it joins the massive backlog of similar cards in Expanded play. Whether we categorize them by card attributes or actual effects, there is less room for this kind of thing now than in the past. I'd also add that during its height, part of what made everyone run the Laserbank combo in their deck was how often others were using it; you could get by with fewer copies of Virbank City Gym because your opponent was so likely to also be running it.
   
2. If it doesn't reduce the turns required for a KO, it doesn't actually help: It used to be that the three damage counters from Hypnotoxic Laser and Virbank City Gym were the difference between a OHKO and a 2HKO, or a 2HKO and a 3HKO. What has changed since then? The maximum printed HP score went from 180 HP (various Basic Pokémon-EX) to 250 HP (Wailord-EX plus certain Pokémon-GX).
3. Item lock: It isn't always big, but when it is, Hypnotoxic Laser has another counter to worry about.

Overlapping with the first two points are more and more cards that can increase damage. In some case, you might have to choose between Muscle Band or Hypnotoxic Laser (and don't ask where you'll find room for Virbank City Gym).

This does not mean that Hypnotoxic Laser and Virbank City Gym are going to be useless for all future decks, but it does appear that they're now only optimal plays in certain decks.

Hope that helps. ^^'

 

[Fayld]

Power creep marches on.

Slightly less simplified, there are a few basic game principles that apply.

1. Larger card pool = less effective deck space: While a 60 card deck is still a 60 card deck, every time we get another competitive card released, it joins the massive backlog of similar cards in Expanded play. Whether we categorize them by card attributes or actual effects, there is less room for this kind of thing now than in the past. I'd also add that during its height, part of what made everyone run the Laserbank combo in their deck was how often others were using it; you could get by with fewer copies of Virbank City Gym because your opponent was so likely to also be running it.
   
2. If it doesn't reduce the turns required for a KO, it doesn't actually help: It used to be that the three damage counters from Hypnotoxic Laser and Virbank City Gym were the difference between a OHKO and a 2HKO, or a 2HKO and a 3HKO. What has changed since then? The maximum printed HP score went from 180 HP (various Basic Pokémon-EX) to 250 HP (Wailord-EX plus certain Pokémon-GX).
3. Item lock: It isn't always big, but when it is, Hypnotoxic Laser has another counter to worry about.

Overlapping with the first two points are more and more cards that can increase damage. In some case, you might have to choose between Muscle Band or Hypnotoxic Laser (and don't ask where you'll find room for Virbank City Gym).

This does not mean that Hypnotoxic Laser and Virbank City Gym are going to be useless for all future decks, but it does appear that they're now only optimal plays in certain decks.

Hope that helps. ^^'

To expand on point #1, decks running evolution pokemon are also becoming more and more popular in expanded and one of the best decks out there that used to be primarily focused on Laserbanks was Yveltal. The focus on that deck shifted dramatically to where it is now pretty commonly accepted practice to run Yveltal with an engine designed to hit a Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick supporter + your choice of Gallade or Archeops. I will focus on Archeops since that's really what I am driving at. Archeops has an ability that does not allow your opponent to evolve a pokemon by evolving from his/her hand to do so. Things like Evosoda and Wally will still get there, but a normal evolution can't happen while Archeops' ability is active. This one card in this one deck is meta defining to the point where there are other deck lists you wouldn't expect to see this combination in, using it to some degree of success. I have seen it in Volcanion decks. I have seen it in Night March. I have seen it in Turbo Darkrai. None of those decks were really running that combination before and while they are still the exception rather than the rule, because Archeops stops so many decks on its own, I wouldn't be surprised to see it pop up in a lot more future decks (the expanded version of Turbo Lapras GX will probably run this to deal with Lurantis and Decidueye decks for example). Wrapping up, the reason why I say this is expanding on #1 is because Maxie's requires a somewhat higher number of cards to hit consistently and those cards take the place of some lasers. Without the lasers, the Virbank doesn't matter meaning there are other stadium choices that would be more effective. Basically, the choice to add one card is enough to dramatically overhaul an entire deck list