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Standard New to the Game (Primal Groudon EX / Wobbuffet)

C

Cobaccc

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hey,

Just starting out in the game, and I wanted to get competitive right away. I've had a mate who is experienced build me and sell me a deck to get me going straight away. I went with Primal Groudon because of the huge damage output. Here is the list:

Pokemon:
  • 4 Wobbuffet
    3 Groudon EX
    2 Primal Groudon EX
Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums:
  • 4 Korrina
    4 Professor Sycamore
    2 Lysandre
    2 Shauna
    2 N
    1 Colress

    3 VS Seeker
    2 Ultra Ball
    2 Switch
    2 Hard Charm (I'm not too sure. I like focus sash, but considering I want to keep Wobbuffet active as long as possible, this feels like the better choice)
    3 Mega Turbo
    1 Pokemon Fan Club
    1 Battle Compressor
    2 Professors Letter
    1 Scramble Switch
    1 Float Stone

    2 Silent Lab
    2 Scorched Earth
    2 Fighting Stadium
Energy:
  • 4 Strong Energy
    8 Fighting Energy

How does this look?
 
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You've definitely got a strong start for getting into the game -- that much is for sure!

But in his next format, there are a few things that you could add and change to keep pace with the ever-changing metagame. Let me show you what I might do:

-3 Landorus (Whereas this is your acceleration, there's a far faster option that I'll get into later with Mega Turbo.)
-1 Hawlucha (Whereas they are really good, you only need one, if any at all.)
-1 Silent Lab (You'll see why soon!)
-1 Fighting Stadium (You'll also see why soon!)
-1 VS Seeker (Four is a bit too much unless you're playing something that uses a lot of one-of Supporters. Three should do you just fine.)

And with that, here's what all I'd add in:

+4 Wobbuffet (Wobbuffet is so good with this guy. You simply let him be active, locking your opponent's abilities (i.e. No Shaymin for you! Come back, one year!), whilst you set up Groudon. It's really, really good.)
+2 Scorched Earth (This allows you to easily discard Fighting Energy for Mega Turbo, as well as extra draw. An absolute must, in my opinion.)
+1 Mega Turbo (Searchable with Korrina, you can speedily set up Groudon for quick KOs. Since you're not going to run Landorus, you will definitely need four of these.)

Hope I helped, and welcome to the game! :D
 
I would drop 1 Korrina, 4 is overkill giving that you run 4 VS seeker.

Also drop de Center Lady for another N.

If you follow the advice of Keckleon-X above and add Wobbuffets (which I think are good addition, only that I wouldn't run 4 of them, maybe 2-3), you can drop de Focus sash and put some disruption to stall your opponents like a Head Ringer or an Enhanced Hammer.
 
Thanks for the advice guys! Right now I won't be changing much, but in a few weeks I'll definitely take these things on board and make some of these changes, all sounds pretty good to me!
 
Well, I just played my first tournament and I got dumpstered. Played nothing but Toad. Any suggestions that work well against Toad? Something that won't hurt if I get a different match up.
 
Toad hurts if you can't get set up in time. Can you tell us what you did because that's crucial to understand how to defeat Toad and learn from your mistakes.

I can only speculate at this point but I think you didn't set up Primal Groudon EX in time and you just got Lasered and asleeped. Remember that Omega Barrier prevents Trainer cards (except for tools and Stadiums) so you shouldnt be HypnoGym-ed, Enhanced-Hammered, Crushing-Hammered or Lysandre-d.
 
My problem I found, was a lack of energy. I managed to evolve early and use my Omega Barrier. The thing that hurt was constantly drawing into so many trainers, and not enough energy. With no way to search, I got pretty stuck. Even with Landorus, I was never able to set up before the lock came into play.
 
Cobaccc said:
My problem I found, was a lack of energy. I managed to evolve early and use my Omega Barrier. The thing that hurt was constantly drawing into so many trainers, and not enough energy. With no way to search, I got pretty stuck. Even with Landorus, I was never able to set up before the lock came into play.
Click to expand...
Did you draw enough Sycamores? If so, you should have been able to get at least some energy. Your list has enough energy keep it at that. I would suggest more draw supporters. You've maxed out on Sycamores so I would suggest replacing something with another N. Also, I see you're not running Scorched Earth. I would suggest running at least 2 of them since they can get energy in the discard pile and you can draw cards under Item lock.

Landorus isn't a good in a Toad matchup since it's weak to Water. However, if you discarded energy with Scorched Earth and then attached an energy to Landorus, you could accelerate Primal Groudon. But it's risky since Landorus might be asleep due to HypnoGym and also you can only do that for a turn at most and then you give up a prize.
 
Toad is one of the worst matchup this deck can have. So don't feel bad, I've been there too :(

As the fellow trainer above said, you will need more drawing power, so I would suggest drop the Center Lady and 1 Korrina, then add 1 N and maybe 1 Birch or Shauna.

You can drop the Max Potion (240HP is huge, plus you can't have the luxury of discarding all your energies given that it is not easy task to recover from that) and one or two Focus Sash for some disruption that could potentially slow down the Toad: crushing hammer, enhanced hammer, head ringer.
 
Without the item lock, I have plenty of draw and search power. I'm always able to find what I need almost every turn. So I don't think draw power is the problem. It's just the particular Toad lock really keeps my deck from doing what it's meant to be doing. Once the lock comes out, it becomes a game of top deck for energy. Landorus doesn't do much because he gets ohko'd every time. Scorching Earth is a good idea though. I'll see if I can find some.

Toad is so frustrating, and it's pretty big at my local - great.
 
One thing is search and another draw power. You need draw power because otherwise you will have to rely in top deck the energies you need.

I am totally sure you can search the Primal Groudon in no time and have it ready by turn 2. But once the item lock start, you have to use your supporters in order to get the energies you need. That's why N, Shauna, Sycamore, Birch, etc. are so important against Toad, because are the only way to search for energy that is not an item.

Scorching Earth is good, but giving that your problem is not having enough energies, it doesn't make sense to me discard an energy, slowing Groudon even more, to draw 2 cards that could or couldn't help you. I would attach it instead.
 
WAIT. I just realised I'm still able to play supporters after Quaking Punch. I was told the opposite. So I lost a lot of those games because of a misunderstanding... Was very nice of people to make me aware of this...

I think my problem is solved. I had PLENTY of draw power. But was under the impression I wasn't able to play it. Someone gave me the wrong message.
 
Cobaccc said:
WAIT. I just realised I'm still able to play supporters after Quaking Punch. I was told the opposite. So I lost a lot of those games because of a misunderstanding... Was very nice of people to make me aware of this...

I think my problem is solved. I had PLENTY of draw power. But was under the impression I wasn't able to play it. Someone gave me the wrong message.
Click to expand...
Great! You discovered what may have cost you a great spot in the tournament and many games.
 
Cobaccc said:
WAIT. I just realised I'm still able to play supporters after Quaking Punch. I was told the opposite. So I lost a lot of those games because of a misunderstanding... Was very nice of people to make me aware of this...

I think my problem is solved. I had PLENTY of draw power. But was under the impression I wasn't able to play it. Someone gave me the wrong message.
Click to expand...

There you go! Whoever told you that you can't play supporters was not your friend xD The Toad would be soooo broken if he lock you your items AND supporters :confused:

Please tell us your next experience against the toad or in your next tournament ;)
 
I can't believe I'm only just realising! I was confused as to why you all suggested more supporters! I'm incredibly salty right now, and I think it was all just a big misunderstanding. Will be back there next week and I have a feeling it'll be a little better this time around! I will still definitely take all change onboard, and will try to make some fixes.

Notably I realise most of the time focus sash is a dead draw due to my spirit links. Should I remove them altogether or at least play one?
Full heal is also a very slow card, so I may replace them with Shauna (only other draw power I have access to at the moment - but it isn't so bad)

Thankyou for all of your help!
 
I would definitely replace Full Heal with Shauna. Intense status condition spam is only often seen in Seismitoad decks and well... it's an item so it kinda doesn't work against toad either. As for Focus Sash, your Pokemon are heavy in HP except for Hawlucha so I wouldn't bother with them. I would suggest replacing them with Muscle Band though.
 
I would suggest Focus Sash but that's because I run only Wobbuffet and Primal Groudon. Wobbuffet stays Active until I can power up Primal Groudon so I can lose a turn by Primal Reverting. Focus Sash is very useful as it prevents OHKOS that Night March, Dragon Rayquaza and Virizion decks can do.
 
Focus Sash can also help your Hawlucha to deliver at least 2 hits, which with a strong energy we are talking about dealing 160 damage for just one energy
 
Yeah, Focus Sash is absurd on Hawlucha -- especially with a Strong Energy and a Fighting Stadium. The Stadium brings the initial damage output to 100, and when combined with the fact that you'll get to attack twice, you can essentially swing for 200 for a single Energy.

But Focus Sash is fantastic on Groudon just anyway. It can turn a matchup in your favor, such as Dragon Rayquaza, Colorless Rayquaza, opposing Groudon, Leafeon, Genesect... The list goes on.
 
I have since updated my build scraping up whatever I could find -

Pokemon:

  • 4 Wobbuffet
    3 Groudon EX
    2 Primal Groudon EX
Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums:

  • 4 Korrina
    4 Professor Sycamore
    2 Lysandre
    2 Shauna
    2 N
    1 Colress

    3 VS Seeker
    2 Ultra Ball
    2 Switch
    2 Hard Charm (I'm not too sure. I like focus sash, but considering I want to keep Wobbuffet active as long as possible, this feels like the better choice)
    3 Mega Turbo
    1 Pokemon Fan Club
    1 Battle Compressor
    2 Professors Letter
    1 Scramble Switch
    1 Float Stone

    2 Silent Lab
    2 Scorched Earth
    2 Fighting Stadium
Energy:

  • 4 Strong Energy
    8 Fighting Energy

If I could get ahold of Acro Bikes, I would be running 4. I have played this kind of build since first posting this thread, and I still didn't do very well. Though, I can definitely see that Wobbuffet has a huge impact in slowing down games, because of the prevalence of Shaymin. After that, I fiddled around with the build a little bit, focusing on what was causing me to lose games. I found I just simply could not get enough energy no matter what, so I added another Professors Letter, and one more Fighting Energy. I am considering running one more Lysandre, particularly for the Seismitoad matchup. But I'm not sure if that's overkill.

Let me know what you guys think.
 
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