Blog No More Night March! Celebrating the New Standard Format and Some Theorymon

Don't count your chickens. We might see reprints of the cards before Sun and Moon Base Set. We still at least get a little time between the rotation and the reprint set...

We'll see what dies out for good by November for certain. I'm just ready to use Litten in the TCG!
 
Kinda glanced at first and saw the Sacred Ash in your Mega Ray list. FLF is rotating to, maybe super rod?
 
Good article, though at times the language was a bit confusing. Funny, but still confusing for us ol' fuddy-duddies. ;) Also glad you reminded people about being realistic with debt (seriously, I facepalm when I think of my post graduation spending habits >_<).

Onto the slightly more serious stuff, I really did think you offered some good insights, and explaining why you thought something was going to be a certain way. I think you sell the Fighting Type a bit short though. With the loss of XY: Furious Fists it will loose Fighting Stadium, Focus Sash, Hawlucha, and Korrina... but consider how those were used and whether we have replacements. Fighting Stadium had been seeing less use because other Stadiums were proving more beneficial; some of those alternatives are also rotating but while we'll miss that abusively easy +20 damage against Pokémon-EX, it was a bonus and not a necessity for most builds. Focus Sash is similar; how many decks were using it as their main Pokémon Tool? A few, but the loss of Muscle Band matters more. Except most Fighting Types that have done well are Basics. In short, between Assault Vest and Fighting Fury Belt, or Exp. Share, or Float Stone the deck doesn't lose something so much as changes. Hawlucha was already losing some grown since Carbink/Carbink BREAK doubles as a non-Pokémon-EX attacker, to get around certain problem situations; add a Float Stone and it is also a pivot Pokémon. Korrina gets replaced by Skyla; often not as good, but when you absolutely need a specific Supporter for next turn or a Stadium for this turn, it can actually be better.

Doesn't mean I think Fighting decks are the next big thing, but with a lot of what you mentioned, if you look hard you'll see stuff like that. ;)
 
Cool read, buddy. Couple things:

Don't capitalize "discard pile".

Haiku skills on point

Doesn't Zap Zone nullify Clear Humming? Yep, sure does:

== ZAP ZONE (Zebstrika - XY: BREAKpoint)

Q. Altaria has a printed weakness to Lightning, but it also has the "Clear Humming" Ability which creates an effect that gives it no weakness. What happens if it is attacked by Zebstrika with the "Zap Zone" Ability which makes its attack's damage ignore effects on the defending Pokemon? When Zebstrika attacks Altaria, is the damage altered by weakness or not?
A. Clear Humming is an effect that gives Colorless Pokemon no weakness. Zap Zone ignores this effect, so Zebstrika's attack will be increased for {L} Weakness. (Mar 24, 2016 TPCi Rules Team)

>References Rainbow Road
>not SNES Rainbow Road

Them's fightin words.

I dunno if Xerneas is gonna be top tier, it just seems too inconsistent. I have never played with or against the deck though so I'm just theorymonning. It did place high in some tourney though, yeah? So I guess it can't be all bad.

Flareon-EX is found as an Ultra Rare only in Generations packs (which means they’re essentially Commons).
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I have honestly pulled so many Gardevoir-EX and M Gardevoir-EX, both in real life and online, that I completely forgot Flareon-EX was in this set. I have like everything from Generations _except_ for Flareon (and Jolteon, of course). I never realized that Blaze Ball and Secret Sword had the exact same cost and damage, probably because Rush In is an A+ ability (one that, if PCL doesn't completely bomb an amazing opportunity, we should be seeing come back on the new Dragonite-EX from Evolutions). Maybe Magma's Camerupt will come back. It's kiiiinda like Blacksmith...right?

I'm definitely on the Zygarde hype train. With a belt he becomes a 230-HP behemoth who can heal himself and get buffed by Strongs and Regirock-EX. I think it's definitely something to watch out for. I feel he will be the face of Fighting decks.
 
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Otaku said:
Fighting Stadium had been seeing less use because other Stadiums were proving more beneficial; some of those alternatives are also rotating but while we'll miss that abusively easy +20 damage against Pokémon-EX, it was a bonus and not a necessity for most builds. Focus Sash is similar; how many decks were using it as their main Pokémon Tool? A few, but the loss of Muscle Band matters more. Except most Fighting Types that have done well are Basics. In short, between Assault Vest and Fighting Fury Belt, or Exp. Share, or Float Stone the deck doesn't lose something so much as changes. Hawlucha was already losing some grown since Carbink/Carbink BREAK doubles as a non-Pokémon-EX attacker, to get around certain problem situations; add a Float Stone and it is also a pivot Pokémon. Korrina gets replaced by Skyla; often not as good, but when you absolutely need a specific Supporter for next turn or a Stadium for this turn, it can actually be better.

Doesn't mean I think Fighting decks are the next big thing, but with a lot of what you mentioned, if you look hard you'll see stuff like that. ;)
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In Carbink/Regi decks cards like Korrina and Focus Sash are very important staples. It was seeing less because the deck was outclassed, so the deck was seen less in general. It does lose a lot since Focus Sash ensured that no OHKOes would happen from a NM/Vespi deck. Even though the meta is changing, if for example Mega Sceptile becomes popular the deck is toast.
While you are right about FF belt, Hawlucha, and Float Stone, Exp Share and Assult vest are not solutions to save the deck from being another Tier 4 deck.
Laslty, Skyla is a terrible Korrina swap. That is like saying Judge is almost just as good as N. It is night and day grabbing a fighting pokemon AND an item card opposed to any card (including supporters which only benefits you the turn after).
 
Also John, how do you feel about Raichu next format? You mention immediately that MegaRay is the deck to beat next format, but I somewhat disagree. Raichu only lost dominance because of Trev Break OHKOing all pokemon on the field under item lock. This would not be the case without the XY Trev and thus a new version with Zoroark, Garb, or other techs is born. This deck in my opinion is a dominant threat for next format that can take out the competition. Giratina also boosts a lot from the rotation (no Xerosic/Megaphone), which is trouble for MegaRay, so how will this be better in the future?
 
Your deck core of Rayquaza consists of 4 cards that are rotating (Sacred Ash, 2 Battle Compressor, AZ) so that's kind of confusing.
I'm not sold on how strong Rayquaza will be especially if everyone is playing counters for it because of its strength. (Raichu, Zebstrika, Parallel City, Giratina, Carbink) Losing Battle compressor hurts due to not being able to use a lot of 1-of supporters with efficiency. Hex Maniac always being ready when needed isn't going to happen without naturally drawing it.
 
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@Ami Dark: For now, I'm making predictions based on seeing Steam Siege as our newest set that'll hold up from its inclusion in the format for at least a few months. I won't put it past you that some cards may be reprinted, but I wrote this article wayyyyyy before a reprint set would be released in the States. (Yeah, I know that one in Japan is a thing for now, but no news about that in the US.)

@rainyman123: Yup, kept those and Battle Compressor in there. Mentioned those as being cards that'll be dropped and to emphasize that just a few cards are gonna leave the list.

@Otaku: Haha, thanks for the commentary! Sorry about ya missing some of my dialogue - I prefer to write the way I speak in real life to add flavor and character. I'm gonna be frank here: you're wrong on a lot of counts here. Elbow certainly refuted those bigger claims, (especially those on Focus Sash and Korrina), so I don't really need to go there. To say that just because not all decks utilize these cards don't make them less important. #FightingTypesMatter too ya know?

@PMJ: Thank you bro! And yo not gonna lie I dunno why I do. It's habitual. Making a mental note now. Thanks homie! Wow, didn't know about that ruling either. Zebstrika just got better. And you know N64 is the most beautiful Rainbow Road mane lolol. Rainbow Road is dope dude. And it's pretty-lookin' on the field if you get all the colors out haha. I really don't believe in the Zygarde hype with Sceptile seeing as much swag as it is. Zygarde doesn't hit hard enough on those big Pokémon to be competitive, even with Power Memory. Groudon is the far better pick for a Fighting-type partner with Carbink because there's no way to soften that 240-HP bulk before it's promoted to the field. If your opponent sees you're Diamond Gifting Zygarde, they Lysandre that dude and soften it for a 2HKO. With this, you're getting one attack off, maybe getting a Prize or two, only for it to be taken down again the next turn. Then you spend another turn needing to Diamond Gift and...eh. I just don't see it. I was gonna comment on this in your article tbh but then I saw this here haha.

@Elbow: You love your Raichu man haha. I peeped at him during the Anything + Garbodor section of the article, and I think he'll be a solid play...for the Ray matchup only. No doubt that Special Charge and the lack of Trees gives the deck viability, but against anything else not named Ray, it's tougher. Raichu gets one-shotted by M Sceptile (which is saying something) and without Bats and Muscle Band, can be hard for Raichu to hit those big numbers. I think that's the biggest hit - the lack of Bats. What are you gonna fill your Bench with? Every Shaymin drop is another opportunity for your opponent to catch up with you on the Prize trade, if you can even OHKO big EXs. Zoroark would get strength only if your opponent was foolish enough to cap out his Bench with Sky Field in play. Tina which will be very strong imo can lock a Parallel City into play and...what're you gonna do? I'd like to see the card shine a little (because I pulled like six of em) and because it has wonderful utility with Level Ball, but I'm not quite sold on it just yet. If you have a list or come up with something, let me know.

@Propayne: Yup, I included those to show that they're in today's Standard list and are just a couple cards that are dropped. I thought I had made that clear in the article when I asked you to check what the rotation forced out - like those three cards lol.
 
Very nice write-up! I've been looking at the upcoming format, and wondering about other strategies to use. The ones you pointed out I saw would be prominent, but I'm also wondering about Mega Mewtwo-X's viability, now that Night March is out of the way. It can do 200 Damage, break through any effect, plus has nice healing with its pre-evolution's Damage Swap.

Also... At first I was fearing Mega Ray would come back to dominate again. But now I think that there might be too many hard counters against it to have it do well again. Parallel City, Zoroark, Zebstika, etc., all can be very troubling for that deck, and can easily be placed into many deck types, due to the attack cost.

This, compared to the Primals, which you have to really have to search real hard for strategies to beat them. Yet there is one curious card I found that could counter both the Primals and even Mega Sceptile: The Dual-Type Grass/Fire Volcarona coming up in Steam Siege can do 120 damage with a [C][C][C] attack cost - although you must discard all the energy attached to it as recoil. But if it means 1-hitting 3 of the biggest threats, that could be worth it. I might try to build a deck with it and see how it works!
 
Not gonna show any love for Mega Mewtwo? Aside from Dark and MAYBE Greninja, Mewtwo could hold its own pretty well post-rotation. I'm kinda thinking of running it with Clawitzer for acceleration. Then again Clawitzer can be good for a lot of then-bad Megas.
 
One thing I hope for is that (at least in the PTCGO) the Legacy format to remain as BW and HS era expansion sets only. I would hate for Night March to be all over Legacy! :(
Expanded? Sure, why not. Legacy? Get out! Get out!
 
taschen88 said:
One thing I hope for is that (at least in the PTCGO) the Legacy format to remain as BW and HS era expansion sets only. I would hate for Night March to be all over Legacy! :(
Expanded? Sure, why not. Legacy? Get out! Get out!
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Speaking of legacy, I would love for legacy to be part of the championship series and give out CP towards worlds. At least in legacy, the format isn't: set up turn one or lose. Instead it's a format where you actually take time to set up (shocker, right?) and it doesn't involve putting down three Shaymins in a turn to do 200 damage every turn. It's also a more flexible format and allows for more players creativity to shine.


@Spectre_Makoto: I'm pretty sure everybody has put in their two cents about Mega Mewtwo. Personally, I would hate to hear yet another person speak about the glory of Mega Mewtwo and then for someone to finally realize it loses to Mega Ray (oops..... Spoiled it....)

Also, Mega Mewtwo beats Greninja.
 
@Serperior

A great read as always John. Bonus points for a) Haiku skills, b) Ancient Mew t-shirt (seriously where can I buy this).

I'm really enjoying theorymon at the moment but without the complete set list for Steam Siege I'm conscious there may be a few more twists and turns before we can make safer predictions about PRC-On (just imagine if we get a Startling Megaphone/Xerosic reprint, for example). For now though, I'm just mega sad at the prospective demise of Greninja BREAK - two months ago I bought a full set thinking it was going to be the next big thing, only to see it tank at Origins!

On the decks that look set to make a comeback; I'm pleased to see someone else picking up on Primal Groudon's potential. It's a deck that I love and it really thrives in a 'big EX' environment. The matchup against Mega Ray isn't too bad for Groudon, as the deck naturally runs a lot of Stadium cards and Gaia Volcano discards the opponent's Sky Field. Furthermore, Groudon can really benefit from Ninja Boy and has gained another great stalling partner in Carbink. If Mega Ray does come to dominate the format, we might see a shift to Electric decks which further benefits Groudon.

My Groudon cards are definitely coming out of the binder!
 
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WastedSkyPirate said:
@Serperior

A great read as always John. Bonus points for a) Haiku skills, b) Ancient Mew t-shirt (seriously where can I buy this).

I'm really enjoying theorymon at the moment but without the complete set list for Steam Siege I'm conscious there may be a few more twists and turns before we can make safer predictions about PRC-On (just imagine if we get a Startling Megaphone/Xerosic reprint, for example). For now though, I'm just mega sad at the prospective demise of Greninja BREAK - two months ago I bought a full set thinking it was going to be the next big thing, only to see it tank at Origins!

On the decks that look set to make a comeback; I'm pleased to see someone else picking up on Primal Groudon's potential. It's a deck that I love and it really thrives in a 'big EX' environment. The matchup against Mega Ray isn't too bad for Groudon, as the deck naturally runs a lot of Stadium cards and Gaia Volcano discards the opponent's Sky Field. Furthermore, Groudon can really benefit from Ninja Boy and has gained another great stalling partner in Carbink. If Mega Ray does come to dominate the format, we might see a shift to Electric decks which further benefits Groudon.

My Groudon cards are definitely coming out of the binder!
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Primal Groudon is a personal favourite of mine as well, and I've made sure to hang on to a set because of how fun and strong it is. In a slower format it would be much better, with Night March not being able to catch you off-guard and with Vespiquen getting a nerf.

Ninja Boy is a fantastic card I'd definitely play as a 2-of just for the issue of starting on your Groudon-EX. Another thing I think is underrated in Primal Groudon is Max Potion, as you are very tanky with a 240HP active and can retreat to your Carbink BREAK then make use of Max Potion to heal all damage and use Diamond Gift to return all your energies and strong energies (with an attach on the retreating turn and the following turn you can continue to use Gaia Volcano as quick as the next turn after healing).
 
MarshalBry said:
Primal Groudon is a personal favourite of mine as well, and I've made sure to hang on to a set because of how fun and strong it is. In a slower format it would be much better, with Night March not being able to catch you off-guard and with Vespiquen getting a nerf.

Ninja Boy is a fantastic card I'd definitely play as a 2-of just for the issue of starting on your Groudon-EX. Another thing I think is underrated in Primal Groudon is Max Potion, as you are very tanky with a 240HP active and can retreat to your Carbink BREAK then make use of Max Potion to heal all damage and use Diamond Gift to return all your energies and strong energies (with an attach on the retreating turn and the following turn you can continue to use Gaia Volcano as quick as the next turn after healing).
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Good points; I love the idea of using Max Potion in this deck. It reminds me of the fantastic utility of Scramble Switch before it was rotated, allowing you to heal and preserve your Energy. Primal Groudon is such a tank that if you can pull of a Max Potion + Carbink BREAK power up, you're probably going to win the game. The one downside now is the lack of Korrina.

Primal Groudon is a refreshing change of pace to decks such as Night March and Vespiquen/Vileplume and its new friends (Carbink BREAK and Ninja Boy) are a great boon. I like that Groudon decks can play without Spirit Links if they so choose as quite often they will not be attacking with their active Wobbuffet/Carbink (Carbink BREAK being the one exception here); this leaves Groudon flexible to play Tools tailored to the meta - for example, if Mega Ray is popular Assault Vest may not be a bad choice.
 
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Well I'm kinda annoyed with some aspects of the rotation - my Vixen Flare deck's gonna need an overhaul because all the good draw/energy support cards bar Delphox BREAK are being scrapped.

At the same time, I'm happy that Night March is getting the chop cause I really.... REALLY hate those decks. As much as I like a good bit of competition, there's no fun in playing against a strategy that cheap - if they have the right cards in their hand in the first couple turns, there's no way you can win. As I said in a previous post, the last time I was in a tournament, I just conceded the match when I saw what they were aiming for, cause I knew that even with the M Rayquaza deck I was using, they'd have all they'd need to KO it before I could finish getting the energy ready.

At least if it comes back, Karen might be localized, and if that does come to pass, I'm gonna make an Anti-Night March deck, cause I want to repay the pain of facing those decks >:)
 
Serperior said:
Elbow certainly refuted those bigger claims, (especially those on Focus Sash and Korrina), so I don't really need to go there. To say that just because not all decks utilize these cards don't make them less important. #FightingTypesMatter too ya know?
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Seems like you and @Elbow are debating a different otaku. S'what I get for having such a generic screen name. ;)

Since what I wrote was pretty badly misunderstood, perhaps I shouldn't have opened with that joke. The short version is my central point was

Otaku said:
I think you sell the Fighting Type a bit short though.
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There are definitely some spots where I wasn't very clear but a lot of the positions being attributed to me aren't mine. I thought the idea of your article was to discuss how things might change post rotation. That means taking apart the game as it is now, breaking it down into different decks and Pokémon Types and such, then reassembling it after you've worked out the differences into something resembling the post rotation format. @Elbow "refuted" me using points that don't actually stand up to scrutiny. I disagreed with your assessment a little, not a lot: I wasn't saying that Korrina and Focus Sash didn't matter to any deck, I was pointing out that they weren't a four-per-deck staple for all Fighting decks. Focus Sash sounds like it would have been awesome post rotation... except as you two pointed out it was mostly to counter Night March (no longer Standard legal) and Vespiquen (now much slower). Any deck has the option of including Ariados post rotation would neuter Focus Sash anyway. Focus Sash rotating out is a huge deal, but at the same time are Fighting decks going to need it like they once did?

I did have a poorly worded sentence where I mentioned the two times (one quite unlikely, the other not uncommon) where Skyla could be better than Korrina; that was because most of the time it will be worse. Still that preserves the element of Item search (and expands it to include Stadiums). Pokémon search has to be handled by the same Items most decks use; that means less room for other stuff, but it doesn't mean the deck is non-functional. Things change, but they don't always change the same way. If various Fighting decks remain Tier 4 (as Elbow labeled them) I'm not going to blame that on lack of Focus Sash and/or Korrina. It will be the same reason as now; too many other decks just work better. We haven't even considered how new cards like Ninja Boy might change things. Now if you still believe me wrong... okay. You can choose to explain why I am wrong or you can leave it at that. Either is open to you. I know I am not always right; still I'd at least like to be accurately identified as wrong for what I said, not how it was misconstrued.
 
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