Discussion Noivern GX/ Decidueye GX, viable?

[CaptZero]

With Plume getting rotated out after worlds item lock players are going to be left with a hole to fill. Thankfully Noivern comes along to save the day! Noivern GX is the new Semitoad with a few caveats. Noivern doesn't function off of DCE like it's expanded brethren (instead using 2 energy types like all Dragons), and Noivern is a Stage 1 Pokemon. It does however do just a bit more damage, and it's secondary attack locks Special Energy.

I think there are a few ways to run this 'Mon. Drampa GX comes to mind, because really it fits with anything, but the combo that has me excited is the one mentioned in the title. Doing 50 damage base + 60 from triple feather arrow all while locking items and being able to play them yourself is nothing to scoff at.

The big issue here is the clunk. DeciduPlume could make it work because of FGP, but will a stage 1 and stage 2 really be able to work in this meta? Considering the success of Ninetails GX/ Decidueye I think it's certainly worth exploring.

What are your thoughts? Does the meta have to shift for this to be viable? What techs would a deck like this need to be functional? What engine does it work best with in a post rotation meta?

 

[JDA]

Both are viable Pokemon but not really in conjunction with each other. As I feel that running 3 colours typically makes a deck too vunerable to energy removal and eventually too inconsistent for 10+ rounds of tournament play. The synergy in attacks is obviously there but I don't think the one perse needs the other to function. Running stages 1 and stages 2 isn't really the issue I see on this subject, requiring 3 types of energy is.

As a result I wouldn't say the meta has to shift in order to have this be viable, what would have to change is the way energies can be found and attached. There are a lot of ways to find energies but if your still limited to attaching one per turn running 3 different types of energy usually ends up being problematic for hand consistancy.

A lot of engines that are allready in use are still very effective. Since VS seeker is gone I expect more Escape Ropes to be played again. Otherwise there arnt actually too many drastical changes in my opinion. One of the reasons as to why I really like the Escape Rope plan is because it adds enough disruption for stage 2's to be relevant. There certainly is Guzma but again without VS Seeker you wont be running 1-4 prizes behind in consecutive turns.

Cheers,

 

[CaptZero]

Why run three energy types? Just run Dark and Rainbow. Decidueye is going to be attacking so in frequently anyway and the only purpose of the P energy is for Noivern's GX attack. Everything else costs Colorless.

 

[JDA]

Why run three energy types? Just run Dark and Rainbow. Decidueye is going to be attacking so in frequently anyway and the only purpose of the P energy is for Noivern's GX attack. Everything else costs Colorless.

To me the clunkiness would still remain? In addition I'm not too impressed by Decidueye as the main attacker, I think that Noivern's GX Loud Sonic is actually much more relevant and potent overall. Feel free to share the deck you have in mind with just Dark and 4 Rainbows though, if you think that's consistent enough for a deck that allready is stage 1 and stage 2 based feel free to share it!

 

[CaptZero]

To me the clunkiness would still remain? In addition I'm not too impressed by Decidueye as the main attacker, I think that Noivern's GX Loud Sonic is actually much more relevant and potent overall. Feel free to share the deck you have in mind with just Dark and 4 Rainbows though, if you think that's consistent enough for a deck that allready is stage 1 and stage 2 based feel free to share it!

Decidueye isn't intended to be the main attacker... otherwise you wouldn't be item locking your opponent. The idea is to play a really slow denial based game while also potentially putting out enough damage between Noivern and Decidueye to 2HKO most meta decks. With just two Decidueye out you're getting the two shot on all 180 HP Pokemon without Choice Band. That's Bulu. That's Volc. Volc at least isn't that item reliant, but Bulu without items? Say good bye to Rare Candy and a turn 2 nature's judgement!

 

[cbeast3]

This is a set list I've made up for post rotation

Pokemon
Rowlet - 4
Dartrix - 2
Decidueye - 4
Noibat - 2
Noivern - 2
Tapu Lele - 1

Supporters
Professor Sycamore - 4
N- 3
Wally - 3
Guzma - 2
Ninja Boy - 2 (get Tapu Lele off the bench)
Brigette - 1

Items
Ultra Ball - 4
Rare Candy - 3
Energy Switch - 3
Choice Band - 2
Timer Ball - 2
Pokémon Stretcher - 1
Revitalizer - 1
Town Map - 1
Field Blower - 1

stadium
Alter of the Moone - 3

Energy
Rainbow - 4
Dark - 3
Grass - 2

Thoughts?

 

[ozzie347]

This is a set list I've made up for post rotation

Thoughts?

For Pokemon:
-1 Rowlet
-1 Decidueye
+1 Noibat
+1 Noivern GX
+2 Lele

You want Noivern as the main attacker, want to make sure to have one active and another ready. If you have any pieces prized, you're screwed with only 2. Also, want more Leles for consistency.

The supporters:
-3 Wally
-2 Ninja Boy

+1 N
+1 Guzma

No need for Wally, there's no DDE so Noivern will take 2 manual attachments to be able to attack anyways and you never want to be stuck with a Wally as your only supporter. No need for Ninja Boy, run Float Stone or Guzma instead. Without VS Seeker you'll want to max your N count. Guzma works double shifts to make sure your Noivern stays active and to get the victim of choice up into the active.

The rest:
-3 Energy Switch
-1 Town Map

-3 Altar of the Moone

+3 Float Stone
+1 Choice Band
+1 Field Blower

-2 Grass
+1 Dark
+4 DCE

Energy Switch is entirely unnecessary, same with Town Map. The only time you need Town Map is if you absolutely have to know which prize is where. This isn't a deck where anything more than some card-counting to determine prizes is required. Float Stone to get out of active, great synergy with Guzma. Extra Choice Band to make sure you get it on the active and an extra FB to deal with Garbotoxin or tools/stadiums you absolutely need removed.
As for energy, if you want Decidueye as a viable secondary attacker, you *need* DCE. No need for Grass if you're running Rainbow, extra Dark for consistency.

 

[CaptZero]

For Pokemon:
-1 Rowlet
-1 Decidueye
+1 Noibat
+1 Noivern GX
+2 Lele

You want Noivern as the main attacker, want to make sure to have one active and another ready. If you have any pieces prized, you're screwed with only 2. Also, want more Leles for consistency.

The supporters:
-3 Wally
-2 Ninja Boy

+1 N
+1 Guzma

No need for Wally, there's no DDE so Noivern will take 2 manual attachments to be able to attack anyways and you never want to be stuck with a Wally as your only supporter. No need for Ninja Boy, run Float Stone or Guzma instead. Without VS Seeker you'll want to max your N count. Guzma works double shifts to make sure your Noivern stays active and to get the victim of choice up into the active.

The rest:
-3 Energy Switch
-1 Town Map

-3 Altar of the Moone

+3 Float Stone
+1 Choice Band
+1 Field Blower

-2 Grass
+1 Dark
+4 DCE

Energy Switch is entirely unnecessary, same with Town Map. The only time you need Town Map is if you absolutely have to know which prize is where. This isn't a deck where anything more than some card-counting to determine prizes is required. Float Stone to get out of active, great synergy with Guzma. Extra Choice Band to make sure you get it on the active and an extra FB to deal with Garbotoxin or tools/stadiums you absolutely need removed.
As for energy, if you want Decidueye as a viable secondary attacker, you *need* DCE. No need for Grass if you're running Rainbow, extra Dark for consistency.

Honestly unless you going to play Tapu Koko too I wouldn't even bother with DCE. You're going to be slow playing anyway so single turn attaching on Decidueye isn't that big a deal IMO. You don't want to overload the deck with Special Energy. I agree with Town Map. Pretty much the only us I see in Town Map or Rotom Dex is for Gyarados AOR.

I don't know how I feel about three Lele We're already playing 4 Ultra Ball... feels like 2 is a good number. 4 Ultra Ball and 2 Lele gives you about a 70% chance of pulling lele in your opening hand.

 

[TheDude133]

Personally, if you're using the owl as a partner, you need to never use the owl for attacking you should go 8 dark, 4 Rainbow and almost never use the rainbow unless you have too. With one owl up and a Choice Band, you can drop 100 on board in one turn, 120 with two owls. Go for the 2HKO on everything, and hope the no items is enough to stun them out so they can't 2HKO or OHKO you back. Bat/Owl is not the best way to play Noivern GX IMO but that's just me.