Discussion Octillery BREAKthrough, Supporters, and Stage 1's

Jambsz

Jambsz

Aspiring Trainer
Member
So with the release of BREAKthrough we get access to quite a number of interesting cards. However, one card that struck out to me personally was the new Octillery:

HP: 90 Stage 1

Abyss Hand
アビスハンド
Once during your turn (before your attack), you may draw cards until you have 5 cards in your hand.
Hug 40
The Defending Pokémon can't retreat during your opponent's next turn.
Retreat Cost: 2

It's easy to disregard this card when you compare it to the out of rotation Uxie. However with the advent of Archie's Ace in the Hole, Battle Compressor, and most importantly, Wally and Stage 1 Decks in general. I feel this card can have strong potential in Stage 1 decks. Especially if those decks revolve around a few Water Pokemon so that you can also use Archie's.

This is because the existance of Octillery turns Wally into a potential +5 Draw Card. If you run Octillery in a Stage 1 Deck that utilizes Eeveeultions, your main Attacker and a 2-2 of Remoraid and Octillery. When you draw into Wally your instant thought is no longer, "Well at least I can get my Stage 1 Attacker out now or an Eeveelution." and end your turn 1 or 2 steps behind your opponent in setup. Now with Octillery, you can either get that hard hitting Stage 1 out, or replenish your hand to get more of the other cards you need to set up your Pokemon faster.

I always hear from a friend of mine that plays PTCG that he likes to have his options. With the release of Octillery, I believe that Wally has finally become a much more useful card and helps improve the consistency of Stage 1 decks.
 
I don't think "draw until you have 5" is that strong of an effect, honestly. This is a game that's built around the assumption that you're going to Sycamore every turn. If you wouldn't run 4 Tierno, I don't think using 4 deck slots to give your hand a 5-card minimum size is worth it. Also, Eeveelutions are good in some decks, but you have to accept that you'll sometimes get an Eevee in the active slot with no pokemon on the bench. If you're gonna take that risk, you want a stronger reason than this.
 
As someone who runs Birch's/Shauna as opposed to Sycamore primarily I think I could see a benefit in this. I think this is one of those that just plain fits to play-style more and it certainly won't even come close to rivaling Shaymin EX (because of how Shaymin EX only really needs you to get one card rather than a few of them), but as someone who really hates dead hands and how often I come into them it could be a good niche 1-1 to bring out mid-game when everything else is set up.
 
As a player that runs a 1-1 line of electrode in expanded, this is a strict upgrade. It's still no claydol DP but draw up to 5 is far better then draw up to 4. Especially in accelgor/trevonant decks that deck themselves and then shuffle an attacker in. It could also be used well witb bunnelby. As you deck your self, shuffle in 2 cards next turn draw the rest of the dexk, rinse and repeat
 
Even though I love Magnezone Prime and Electrode, I don't think this is that good of a card. We have Shaymin that can draw six, while Octillery can only draw five. If you're playing a deck that draws a lot of cards, like Accelgor, then Slurpuff is a better stage 1 because you will almost always be able to draw a card(I say almost because of Hex Maniac and Wobbuffet)
 
This is a good card, with judge it could see a lot of play.
 
Okay, all the Octillery hate is really bothering me. This card will most likely end up being used a good bit in certain decks, and it will definitely have a good place in those decks. Being able to draw to 5 is much more powerful than you might think. In decks with high Shaymin counts, this card can prove very useful. When considering the utility of Octillery, you must remember that you can use more than one each turn. So, with an ideal four on the bench, and using four Shaymin, you could draw through 44 cards out of the 60 in your deck, in an absolutely perfect situation. Obviously this will happen about 0% of the time, but even if using ONE Shaymin and ONE Octillery you can draw 11 cards in one turn. This is much more do-able, if your deck is heavy on items that thin your hand. Further, using a second Octillery is really not all that far fetched. Many decks will be able to make use of two in one turn quite frequently, and with the new Bridgette supporter, it'll be easy to get out a few remoraids, or a Shaymin, on the first turn, to prepare for using Octillery on the second.

TL;DR:
Using Octillery in conjunction with Shaymin and in a deck that already thins its hand quickly with items (hint: most skyfield decks), you can draw through a good bit more of your deck then you otherwise could without Octillery. Basically, it lets you draw MORE CARDS PER TURN. Generally, that is a plus. Who would've thought?
 
MarshalBry said:
As someone who runs Birch's/Shauna as opposed to Sycamore primarily I think I could see a benefit in this. I think this is one of those that just plain fits to play-style more and it certainly won't even come close to rivaling Shaymin EX (because of how Shaymin EX only really needs you to get one card rather than a few of them), but as someone who really hates dead hands and how often I come into them it could be a good niche 1-1 to bring out mid-game when everything else is set up.
Click to expand...

This is exactly I am talking about. Octillery is definitely nowhere near as good as Shaymin-EX, but with the combo of Wally into Octillery existing it definitely gives you a lot more options on how you use your Wally rather than just as a way to speed up deck's ability to get your stage 1 attacker.
 
Octillery has a place most certainly, but why not use it as a nice moderate little thing to sit on your bench and scoot you through, whether there is a shaymin or not. The way I see it, any deck with dive ball could benefit from this greatly.
 
Sjin said:
Okay, all the Octillery hate is really bothering me. This card will most likely end up being used a good bit in certain decks, and it will definitely have a good place in those decks. Being able to draw to 5 is much more powerful than you might think. In decks with high Shaymin counts, this card can prove very useful. When considering the utility of Octillery, you must remember that you can use more than one each turn. So, with an ideal four on the bench, and using four Shaymin, you could draw through 44 cards out of the 60 in your deck, in an absolutely perfect situation. Obviously this will happen about 0% of the time, but even if using ONE Shaymin and ONE Octillery you can draw 11 cards in one turn. This is much more do-able, if your deck is heavy on items that thin your hand. Further, using a second Octillery is really not all that far fetched. Many decks will be able to make use of two in one turn quite frequently, and with the new Bridgette supporter, it'll be easy to get out a few remoraids, or a Shaymin, on the first turn, to prepare for using Octillery on the second.

TL;DR:
Using Octillery in conjunction with Shaymin and in a deck that already thins its hand quickly with items (hint: most skyfield decks), you can draw through a good bit more of your deck then you otherwise could without Octillery. Basically, it lets you draw MORE CARDS PER TURN. Generally, that is a plus. Who would've thought?
Click to expand...

The problem may are having with this is its pretty much a stage 2 Pokemon you can't rare candy into. You have to go Remoraid -> Octillery -> Octillery BREAK, which takes 3 turns to get assuming the opponent doesn't catcher it up to the active spot. There are just better cards that, not named Shaymin EX, for example, Electrode, which takes little deck space and Delphox comes to mind.

The only thing redeeming about it is it can continue the effect and with Judge being around, it will get you at last 1 card but its pretty much a stage two with less support and thats a big deal.
 
The main issue with Octillery I think is that you have to bench Remoraid first, so if you're not careful or using Wally it's an easy Lysandre Prize (though 60hp isn't super low, it's not exactly a good attacker or anything either). I think this print could definitely come in useful in these situations, and maybe a deck running things like Hard Charms might put one on there to be safe if they're not running Wally.
 
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I've been thinking about this card. I want to flip Swampert with Archies. I get rid of my hand with deck draw item cards (Trainers Mail, Professor Letters, Ultra ball...) I then use diving draw to place the card I need on top. Once I do that I force the draw power Octillery getting the card I needed. The idea of draw power is not to draw randomly, but to draw what you need at the right time. It is the reason a lot of us run a 4 or 3 line of cards. Unfortunately, some of those cards get prized. But if you could get the exact card you needed at the right time, it makes it a bit worth while. The problem with the deck I mentioned is that I don't know what other friends I could use as attackers. Though, I think that would be the best tactic to use with Octillery.

Sjin said:
Okay, all the Octillery hate is really bothering me. This card will most likely end up being used a good bit in certain decks, and it will definitely have a good place in those decks. Being able to draw to 5 is much more powerful than you might think. In decks with high Shaymin counts, this card can prove very useful. When considering the utility of Octillery, you must remember that you can use more than one each turn. So, with an ideal four on the bench, and using four Shaymin, you could draw through 44 cards out of the 60 in your deck, in an absolutely perfect situation. Obviously this will happen about 0% of the time, but even if using ONE Shaymin and ONE Octillery you can draw 11 cards in one turn. This is much more do-able, if your deck is heavy on items that thin your hand. Further, using a second Octillery is really not all that far fetched. Many decks will be able to make use of two in one turn quite frequently, and with the new Bridgette supporter, it'll be easy to get out a few remoraids, or a Shaymin, on the first turn, to prepare for using Octillery on the second.

TL;DR:
Using Octillery in conjunction with Shaymin and in a deck that already thins its hand quickly with items (hint: most skyfield decks), you can draw through a good bit more of your deck then you otherwise could without Octillery. Basically, it lets you draw MORE CARDS PER TURN. Generally, that is a plus. Who would've thought?
Click to expand...

I just like Octillery because you loose one card instead of two. However, I think the above is a good tactic, though I'd be afraid of decking to early in the game. After playing standard for a bit, I've realized that there are plenty of match ups where over drawing becomes the enemy, due to either deck out decks, or just really good blockers that forces the opponent to keep drawing because they have overdrawn on first turn.
 
Jambsz said:
This is exactly I am talking about. Octillery is definitely nowhere near as good as Shaymin-EX, but with the combo of Wally into Octillery existing it definitely gives you a lot more options on how you use your Wally rather than just as a way to speed up deck's ability to get your stage 1 attacker.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is a case of whether it's better or worse then shaymin EX, its a different type of draw engien. Shaymin is amazing, play it draw up to 6. Probably the best pokemon draw there is in expanded. But, it is a one shot draw. Amaxing during the first few turnd and late game. My point about electrode and now the better Octillery offers less, but more consistent pokemon draw. You can reliably get it set up T2 this now allows you to refil your hand everyturn without using an additional bench spot. So in my experience (I'll use DP-HGSS as an example) in DP-HGSS they had both Claydol and Uxie in the format abdominal they where often used in the same deck. As uxie let you fill your hand to dig early then claydol took over the long game by maintainingyour hand the rest of the game.

My point is, as I've been rambling, that while every deck will use shaymin there will be plenty of decks (most likely set up/control decks) that will use both Octillery and shaymin for best consistency. And with judge it could be nice.
 
I don't know if weavile eggs is still a thing in expanded, but it makes me wonder if switching this out for electrode would be a nice way to improve that deck?
 
I haven't given this card much thought, but to me it seems like a decent card.

Unlike Shaymin EX it can't be placed on the bench immediatly and it draws one less card. But consider this:

-It can't be shut down by silent lab, which I'm seeing used more freqeuntly to counter Shaymin EX and Hoopa EX.
-It is a nice fit in decks that already use Level Ball, Wally or Archie's Ace in the Hole.
-Though it is easily knocked out, your opponent only takes one price cards, unlike Shaymin.
-You have a filled hand every turn.
-$$$

Obviously It's not going to replace Shaymin EX. Your set-up shouldn't need a set-up...
 
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