Discussion Omega Barrage Medicham w/ Machamp EX?

TheBlazingInfernape

Raging Inferno
Member
I saw a deck combining Machamp and Ariados and decided to build it. A problem I saw with the deck is I only have ONE main attacker which is Machamp EX. Enter Medicham, Medicham can do a minimum of 30 damage and a max of 60 for 2 Fighting Energies. It seems like it isn't that good of a card. HOWEVER, with the setup with my deck, Medicham can do a minimum of 90 damage to a maximum of 180 damage to a non EX Pokemon and a minimum of 110 damage and a max of a whopping 220 damage to an EX. That is usually enough to knock out most Megas. The only Megas it won't knock out are Mega Charizard X, Mega Aggron, Both Mega Rayquazas, Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre and Mega Mewtwo X. The damage is amplified by Fighting Stadium (EX's only), Machamp from FFI (Fighting Fury), Muscle Band and Strong Energy. So with the basics out of the way. Let's dive deep into the core of my deck. If I run 2-2 Medicham, I'll have to replace some stuff. Probably Machop and Machoke and just run Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick and Battle Compressors to get Machamp in the discard pile. It isn't that necessary but it's nice for an extra 20 damage. In addition to adding Medicham, I won't have problems with Pyroar considering it is a Stage 1 as opposed to a basic. So yay or nay for Medicham.
 
Wouldn't the normal answers to a lot of your concerns be things like Landorus (FFI) as it can provide additional Energy acceleration in addition to being a back-up attacker, Lucario-EX if again you want an alternate attacker that still uses most of what is already in the deck, Hawlucha as an anti-Pokémon-EX attacker plus "pivot" Pokémon, all backed with Hex Maniac for problematic protective Abilities?
 
True but Medicham doesn't get destroyed by Pyroar and gets to attack twice unlike Landorus, Hawlucha and Lucario. Not only that but Hex Maniac gets rid of your supporter for the turn which is crucial concidering it doesn't give draw support like Junipers and Shawnas do. I don't see myself running Dual Brains Magnezone anytime soon either. While Landorus is amazing for energy support, it only works when it is in the discard. Hawlucha's attack only works on EX's and I'm too broke to get a Lucario.
 
True but Medicham doesn't get destroyed by Pyroar...

It gets OHKOed by it. This will all come down to who can field and fuel more Stage 1 Pokémon than the other unless you can load a Medicham up with +80 damage worth of buffs so that "Yoga Kick" OHKOs Pyroar (FLF). Though Pyroar needs three Energy to attack, the cost is [RCC] and as a Fire-Type it can bust out Blacksmith. Yes Pyroar has to discard one [R] Energy when using Scorching Earth to score the OHKO against Medicham, but that just means it can't completely outpace you on Energy attachments through the use of one Blacksmith. The only Pokémon among the options I gave that Pyroar "destroys" is Hawlucha (FFI), as that is a OHKO as well. Landorus (FFI) and Lucario-EX are 2HKOs unless there are additional damage buffs beyond Muscle Band. Pyroar certain walls against them, but that isn't the same thing.

...and gets to attack twice unlike Landorus, Hawlucha and Lucario.

Two uses of "Yoga Kick" are only impressive when they are massive buffed. The attack does 30 damage for [FF]; without anything raising the damage that is only 60 total. Landorus (FFI) can hit for 20 at a cost of [F] while accelerating basic Energy to the Bench from your discard or for [FFC] it hits for 90, half KOing most Basic Pokémon-EX. You're probably not using it to combat Pyroar directly, but to take a hit or two (even if that gets it KOed) while prepping something else and if it isn't against Pyroar but say a Mega Evolution, shaving off some of its HP so that your follow-up attacker scores the KO. I can see it being skipped, but I thought it was pretty much a given for Machamp-EX decks.

Hawlucha (FFI) has a lot going for it in general. A Fighting-Type deck needs a good reason to not include a copy or two; ignoring anything we've already discussed it is a Basic Fighting-Type (so Korrina grabs it with no problems) that has a free Retreat Cost. This allows it to be a "pivot" Pokémon; something you can safely send up only to Retreat for what you really want up front. You do this when something of your own has been KOed so you don't get the wrong attacker (or worse yet a Bench-sitter) up front, so that you can use cards like Switch to shake both Special Conditions and most other effects of attacks, use Escape Rope purely as a disruptive effect against your opponent, plus a few more potential uses depending upon the deck's specifics. If you are using the typical Ariaros (AOR) combo with Machamp-EX, those turns where you don't want to Poison your current attacker, as long as you remembered to promote Hawlucha first, it isn't a problem; it gets Poisoned, retreats to what you want to attack and at the same time shakes its own Poisoning.

While Hawlucha can only damage Pokémon-EX and thus wasn't mentioned for the Pyroar match-up, it is really, really good at hitting Pokémon-EX (and you also mentioned Mega Evolutions in your earlier post). That 60 for [F] is great for setting up for a follow through KO the next turn by another attacker, sometimes a second Hawlucha-EX when all the bonuses are piled on. Even though it often goes down itself after a hit, it trades well. Throw in Hex Maniac and you can make Fighting Weak Pokémon-EX cry; 120 for one Energy even if you lack other buffs, and with a full Fighting Stadium/Muscle Band/Strong Energy trio, 240 damage in one attack... which without Hex Maniac is still a great 120 damage regardless of Weakness or Resistance.

Lucario-EX isn't overly necessary; I just tossed it out there as an option; after all for the same [FF] that Medicham uses to Yoga Kick for 30, Lucario-EX hits for 60 plus allows you to draw until you have six cards in hand. Yes if you add some buffs Medicham will hit harder, but Lucario-EX is harder to OHKO back and can apply Weakness while drawing you some more cards. You get a Resistance (but not Weakness) ignoring attack that does 30 for only [F] and if it survives long enough for a third [F] Energy, you may be able to reach OHKO levels for damage output. Still, if you are using Machamp-EX... yeah, this was a bad suggestion; you probably shouldn't add in another Psychic Weak Fighting-Type.

Hex Maniac eats up your draw for the turn. So does Lysandre; the cards would be broken if they were regular Items... and both have been under different names. Pokémon Catcher didn't require a coin flip for about two years after it first released and when the game was new, we had Gust of Wind; both were Items with the effect of Lysandre, though the wording may have been a bit different (and "Items" were just "normal Trainers" or "Trainers" depending upon how far back you go). Goop Gas Attack was a "normal Trainer" when it released a few sets after Gust of Wind; it stopped "Pokémon Powers" which is a separate mechanic that filled the role of "Abilities" way back when.

Anyway, as soon as you can get them, you'll need to get supplementary draw cards that are not Supporters anyway; even if you aren't using them alongside a card like Lysandre, their benefits have cemented them as deck staples. Shaymin-EX (ROS) is expensive but almost a universal staple right now, often in twos or threes. If you can't afford it, you may have to settle for the hit or miss draw Items like Roller Skates, Acro Bike, etc. or a less effective alternative like Octillery (XY: BREAKThrough 33/162). Once you have these, Hex Maniac is easier to use as well. Yes, even alongside Abilities; while sometimes they will clash, the idea is to use cards like Shaymin-EX and Octillery before using Hex Maniac. Same for Ariados to Poison.

Are you open to different Fighting Evolutions?
 
Thought not an evolution, I've considered adding Regirock (AOR). It's got decent damage output for EX's. I really should't be worried about Pyroar too much considering Ariados' ability poisons both actives so Pyroar gets hurt anyway. I really didn't think that through. I've even considered removing Machamp (FFI) all together to make room for Landorus and Hawlucha. I had Volcarona (AOR) for easy set up but I realized I didn't get it out often enough to. Now for Shaymin. If I am broke for Lucario I am broke for Shaymin. I REALLY need to get my hands on one or two because it is one of the best cards in the game.

For evolutions I've considered Breloom (FFI) It heals for base 20 and with set up it heals for 80 for 2 colorless and hits for 70 without resistance being applied (FFC). On top of that it gets the boosts that my deck has. While I get Fighting Energy in the discard because of Ultra Balls, Landorus can power up a Shroomish on the bench while I get a Breloom and go on a rampage.

I've considered Hariyama (FFI) It has more bulk than Breloom and hits for 80 for (FCC) as opposed to 70 with Breloom. Plus it's ability is pretty nice too, -30 damage from Fire and Water attacks. The only problem I see is it's retreat cost. It's 4. This sort of gets Landorus a better chance to set up but Hariyama only needs 3 to attack

Golurk (AOR) is another good option considering it is both Psychic and Fighting so it gets the boosts. In addition it is weak to Dark and not Psychic. It hits for 80 (CCCC) and you can do an additional 20 but you do 20 damage to yourself.

As for supporters I can get rid of some Shawnas and add Hex Maniac and Lysandre. I've even considered Tool Retriever considering Muscle Band is a huge part of my deck. I run max but with my new options, it isn't enough. Machamp, Landorus, Regirock, Breloom, Medicham, Golurk and Hariyama. That is 7 possible Pokemon for a Muscle Band boost. Hawlucha is a pivot and Ariados is there for the ability so they won't get it. So with these new options what should I go with.
 
I think dropping Machamp (FFI) is a good idea; it likely doesn't add enough to a deck where the point is OHKOing stuff with Machamp-EX and you already have options thanks to both of its attacks hitting so hard (potentially hard in the case of the first one). Remember not to try all those different Pokémon at once and instead of Tool Retriever go with Eco Arm. You should be running Korrina so getting back a recycled Pokémon Tool is no big, and bouncing them with Tool Retriever won't save them from being discarded via effects or KO.
 
Why wouldn't I be running Korrina? Eco Arm was something I didn't think of because I thought Tool Retriever did what it did (miscommunication). But I think the best option as of now is Hariyama, It hits hard, it's incredibly bulky and I can run Switch and get it out when need be. Thoughts?
 
If you really insist on a Stage 1 line to back-up a Machamp-EX/Ariados (AOR) deck, it can fit, but I wouldn't describe it as hard-hitting and bulky, at least in TCG terms. Definitely not the worst Stage 1 but 120 is still a OHKO against (for example) an Giratina-EX (AOR) with a Muscle Band and while [FCC] is pretty reasonable, not so much when facing a "control" or "speed" strategy where you'll rarely be allowed two Energy attachments. On one hand, a Seismitoad-EX crashing into "Thick Fat" won't be pleased, but odds are such a deck will have multiple buffs (either directly adding to the damage done or other means of placing damage counters) and will eventually wear away at Hariyama while at the same time making it difficult to keep the full [FCC] attached so that Hariyama can keep attacking.

When playing with Theme Decks it tends to be pretty amazing; in constructed play it might be alright since it sounds like you're on a budget and facing similar opponents. Sorry if that seems kind of ambiguous but it isn't like I'm part of your local metagame. Advice for something more like League play tends to be even more fluid than trying to anticipate what will be happening with the next major tournament. ;)
 
I'd like to point out one key flaw in this deck it's an every 2 turn deck, not the fact that this is a stage 1 deck, valid support based off of hp and type granted but you essentially need 2 energy to hit for 220 and a lot of factors, 1 your special energy last's a turn, 2 you stadium is out the next turn and or have one in hand and have the muscle band, to many conditions needed to be successful and takes to long to setup on the board.

My 2 cent's dugtrio, 1 energy for overall use, higher base attack, Hawlucha is also a dangerous attacker, yes it doesn't hit twice but can still hit for 120 turn 1 what can medicham do turn 1? sit.
 
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