Standard Palkia EX / M Gyarados EX

[Lenny]

Pokemon (19):

• 2 Gyarados-EX
• 2 M Gyarados-EX
• 2 Palkia-EX
• 1 Manaphy-EX
• 2 Psyduck
• 2 Golduck
• 2 Golduck BREAK
• 2 Regice
• 2 Remoraid
• 2 Octillery

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums (30):

• 1 Max Potion
• 1 Super Rod
• 3 Trainers' Mail
• 4 Max Elixir
• 2 Vs Seeker
• 2 Gyarados Spirit Link
• 3 Dive Ball
• 4 Ultra Ball
• 3 Brigette
• 3 Professor Birch's Observations
• 2 Lysandre
• 2 Rough Seas

Energy (11):

• 11 Water Energy

Strategy:

Hey all, this is my first competitive standard deck in 4 years! Any advice is highly appreciated, I would really love to get some input on this.

Pretty simple, but charge up and get out M Gyarados EX as fast as possible to start 1HKO'ing almost every threat in the meta. Sometimes we don't have the right Pokemon out at the right time, but the addition of Manaphy-EX and Golduck BREAK allow us to move our resources efficiently and with the acceleration from Palkia-EX, it isn't so difficult to get out an M Gyarados EX ready to attack by T3 with the right draw, or even Turn 2 with enough Max Elixir. Regice is especially nice against those heavy EX decks.

That's it, please leave any comments or recommendations you have below! I'll respond to them as soon and often as I can. Thanks for reading!

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Strategy:
Pretty simple, but charge up and get out M Gyarados EX as fast as possible to start 1HKO'ing almost every threat in the meta. Sometimes we don't have the right Pokemon out at the right time, but the addition of Manaphy-EX and Golduck BREAK allow us to move our resources efficiently and paired with our draw power in the form of Octillery and Shaymin-EX, as well as acceleration from Palkia-EX, it isn't so difficult to get out an M Gyarados EX ready to attack by T3 with the right draw. Regice is especially nice against those heavy EX decks.

At first glance, it appears you have a lot of Pokémon with different attacking or support roles. There just seems to be too many "moving parts" requiring too much (?) precious time for you to setup. Secondly, an opponent's Parallel City play early game can place you at a huge disadvantage if you can't replace it quickly. IMO, the deck needs to be a bit more focused and streamlined. IMO, the 2-2 Octillery line or the 2-2-2 Golduck line should be replaced with more Trainers for additional support.

Weaknesses:
I've noticed that the deck has a very hard time dealing with decks that get out of the gate extremely quickly, like Night March or even M Rayquaza EX, and even Trevenant/Seismitoad locks early. Are there any suggestions on how to deal with those kinds of decks? Is there any tech available?

Running a few Judges and Hex Maniac help. The Judges (cn disrupt your opponent's hand) in particular could be your main card-draw Supporter knowing that you have Octillery for additional, supplemental card-drawing.

Other Comments:
1) I have definitely been considering some cards like Max Potion, which works brutally well with energy manipulation provided by Golduck BREAK.
2) I am also thinking about running 2 Regice.
3) Personally, I haven't been all that impressed by Fighting Fury Belt and am considering swapping it for something else. Same goes for Town Map, although that one has gotten me the right Prize Cards occasionally, like double Octillery in the prizes or things of that nature, but I think those are such narrow cases that it might be worth swapping for something else.

1. "Tanking" your M Gyrados EXs is definitely a viable strategy. Should you wish to adopt that strategy, considering refocusing your deck accordingly.
2. "Nice to have," but not critical. What about an Articuno (AT) instead?
3. Agreed, neither the sole Fighting Fury Belt or the Town Map seem that helpful and seem to be high on the list for replacement.

 

[GreenPariah]

At first glance, it appears you have a lot of Pokémon with different attacking or support roles. There just seems to be too many "moving parts" requiring too much (?) precious time for you setup. Secondly, an opponent's Parallel City play early game can place you at a huge disadvantage if you can't replace quickly. IMO, the deck needs to be a bit more focused and streamlined. IMO, the 2-2 Octillery line or the 2-2-2 Golduck line should be replaced with more Trainers for additional support.


Running a few Judges and Hex Maniac help. The Judges (cn disrupt your opponent's hand) in particular could be your main card-draw Supporter knowing that you have Octillery for additional, supplemental card-drawing.


1. "Tanking" your M Gyrados EXs is definitely a viable strategy. Should you wish to adopt that strategy, considering refocusing your deck accordingly.
2. "Nice to have," but not critical. What about an Articuno (AT) instead?
3. Agreed, neither the sole Fighting Fury Belt or the Town Map seem that helpful and seem to be high on the list for replacement.

I agree with @TuxedoBlack Your list seems quite unfocused and has A LOT of moving parts. Judge will be your friend in your troubled matchups and even a one of Xerosic could help out your toad matchups. I would start with cutting out either your Octillery line and adding another Shaymin EX, or remove your Golduck BREAK line to add additional Supporters and make room for the pokemon that work.

If you chose to remove the Octillery line:
-2-2 Octillery
+1 Shaymin EX
+2 Max Potion
+1 Regice

If you remove the Golduck BREAK line:
-2-2-2 Golduck BREAK
-Town Map
-Fighting Fury Belt
+Shaymin EX
+1 Regice
+1 AZ
+1 VS Seeker
+1 Xerosic
+2 Judge
+1 Deliequent

Figure out where you want to focus, and figure which matchups you'd like to do better against, then we'll be able to help make the deck better.

However, if you remove the Golduck BREAK line, you also lose the option to abuse Max Potions, which in any other matchup besides Toads/Trev will be extremely annoying, and will help you secure those wins.

 

[Lenny]

Alright, after a lot of testing on PTCGOnline, I have come to the conclusion that Golduck BREAK is amazing. I think the only question for the Pokemon list is whether I run Octillery or Shaymin-EX for my draw power alongside it. I have 3 options that I'm going to post below and I'd love to get your opinions on which one looks the most ideal.

List One:

Spoiler

Pokemon (20):

• 3 Gyarados EX
• 3 M Gyarados EX
• 1 Manaphy EX
• 2 Palkia EX
• 2 Psyduck
• 2 Golduck
• 2 Golduck BREAK
• 1 Regice
• 2 Remoraid
• 2 Octillery

Trainers (28):

• 4 Dive Ball
• 2 Max Potion
• 1 Super Rod
• 4 Ultra Ball
• 2 Vs Seeker
• 2 Lysandre
• 3 Prof Birch Ovservations
• 3 Professor Sycamore
• 2 Shauna
• 2 Rough Seas
• 3 Gyarados Spirit Link

Energy (11):

• 2 Splash Energy
• 9 Water Energy

Flex Spots (1):

• -1 Shauna => +2 Judge/+1 Judge +1 Regice?

My main list at the moment. Requires a good amount of set-up to "go off" but in my testing it is just fast enough to keep up with other decks that aren't too offensive. Has a lot of mid to late game power in terms of draw and offense. The only problem is setting up, but it can set up by T3 frequently. Only issue is that it requires a full bench (Active Gyarados / Palkia, benched Manaphy, Octillery, Golduck BREAK, and occasionally Regice). This is the one I've done the most testing with and it is actually surprisingly consistent even though it has to jump through a lot of hoops. Those hoops definitely pay off in the end.

List Two:

Spoiler

Pokemon (19):

• 3 Gyarados EX
• 3 M Gyarados EX
• 1 Manaphy EX
• 2 Palkia EX
• 2 Psyduck
• 2 Golduck
• 2 Golduck BREAK
• 1 Regice
• 1 Shaymin-EX
• 1 Remoraid
• 1 Octillery

Trainers (28):

• 4 Dive Ball
• 2 Max Potion
• 1 Super Rod
• 4 Ultra Ball
• 2 Vs Seeker
• 2 Lysandre
• 3 Prof Birch Ovservations
• 3 Professor Sycamore
• 2 Shauna
• 2 Rough Seas
• 3 Gyarados Link

Energy (11):

• 2 Splash Energy
• 9 Water Energy

Flex Spots (2):

• +2 Judge/+1 Judge +1 Regice/+2 Judge +1 Regice -1 Shauna

In this second list, we create a hybrid list with the option to go for Octillery or Shaymin-EX, depending on the matchup or what we need based on our hand. This list, while having the most options, will require tighter play in terms of managing your bench space.

List Three:

Spoiler

Pokemon (18):

• 3 Gyarados EX
• 3 M Gyarados EX
• 1 Manaphy EX
• 2 Palkia EX
• 2 Psyduck
• 2 Golduck
• 2 Golduck BREAK
• 1 Regice
• 2 Shaymin-EX

Trainers (28):

• 4 Dive Ball
• 2 Max Potion
• 1 Super Rod
• 4 Ultra Ball
• 2 Vs Seeker
• 2 Lysandre
• 3 Prof Birch Ovservations
• 3 Professor Sycamore
• 2 Shauna
• 2 Rough Seas
• 3 Gyarados Link

Energy (11):

• 2 Splash Energy
• 9 Water Energy

Flex Spots (3):

• +1 Regice +2 Judge?

Here we cut Octillery entirely, and rely on our draw power and velocity from Shaymin-EX. The deck will require less of a bench size and will only have one card that will need to be set up for T3 (Golduck BREAK). This does make us more vulnerable to close games where they can Lysandre our benched Shaymin-EX, though.

Overall, I'm leaning towards Lists 1 or 2, just because Octillery has been great in my playtesting. I can see only having the 1-1 line, but then running those extra supporters to help disrupt my opponent and give me more time, like Judge. I could definitely see running List 2 with my 2 flex spots going to 2 Judge or 1 Judge and 1 Regice. Judge seems like a great option and I could see myself actually cutting down a Shauna to add the 2nd Judge and the 2nd Regice. Of course, this is just theorycrafting but I would love to get your opinions on the newer refined lists. Thanks a bunch for your inputs @TuxedoBlack and @GreenPariah!

EDIT: Main post lists updated as well!

 

[LightningCloud224]

I love these lists but definitely lean towards Octillery. the only critique I would like to offer is that you only have one regice. You should just fit in the second one. It is very important to the Mega Mewtwo Y, Yveltal-EX and Manectric-EX matchup that your only Regice is not prized from the start.

 

[Lenny]

What would you recommend? I've actually finalized on my list for the time being, merging the 3 concepts into one. I will update the first post momentarily. I don't have any open spots for the second Regice at the moment, but if something were to come out of the decklist below, what should it be?

Pokemon (21):

• 3 Gyarados EX
• 3 M Gyarados EX
• 1 Manaphy EX
• 2 Palkia EX
• 2 Psyduck
• 2 Golduck
• 2 Golduck BREAK
• 1 Regice
• 2 Remoraid
• 2 Octillery
• 1 Shaymin-EX

Trainers (28):

• 3 Dive Ball
• 2 Max Potion
• 1 Super Rod
• 4 Ultra Ball
• 2 Vs Seeker
• 2 Lysandre
• 3 Prof Birch Ovservations
• 3 Professor Sycamore
• 2 Judge
• 1 Team Flare Grunt
• 2 Rough Seas
• 3 Gyarados Spirit Link

Energy (11):

• 1 Splash Energy
• 10 Water Energy

Short comments about the updates:
1) A singleton Shaymin-EX just adds so much versatility and velocity to the deck that it didn't previously have. Remoraid into Octillery is one of the first things to set up, but the ability to go for Shaymin-EX when you've already used a Supporter for the turn, find it with Ultra Ball, or when your Octillery/Remoraid are prized is invaluable. I wouldn't play more than one, but it definitely adds much needed flexibility to the decklist.

2) I pulled out one Dive Ball with the addition of Shaymin-EX, although that could be a mistake. I don't think 8 Balls are necessary, especially because that can hurt during Trainer locks.

3) I've moved down to 1 Splash Energy and I'm honestly thinking of cutting them entirely. They do not synergize well with Golduck BREAK and get crushed by Special Energy discard and we already have a hard time with setting up that being set back by that hurts a lot.

4) The addition of Judge has been great. With Octillery back-up, it is basically a Shauna that trims your opponent's hand and shuts them off of certain lines in the game. Of course, they can get lucky and re-draw all of those cards but it is still worth it. It is especially painful if you go first and rip apart your opponent's 5-6 card hand and they get replaced with junk.

5) A single Team Flare Grunt has actually been great, either buying us time early in the game so we can set up our Gyarados or discarding critical energies on our opponents like Double Colorless Energy. In general just a pretty solid card and it is just some more interaction and disruption that ties into our game plan of drawing the game out until at least T3 or T4 when we're fully set up.

6) And of course, the topic of Regice. Not sure how to include the 2nd into the list but I've been told it is pretty good! It has won me a few games, but it can also be a bit of a clunker at times which is why I've moved towards 1 in my list rather than 2 but this could definitely be a mistake.

EDIT:

Been testing out a new list with increased consistency by far. Won an 8-man on PTCGO with it. Only a couple things lacking from it, like the extra 1-1 Octillery line or a Team Flare Grunt, but overall I think the extra Trainers adds consistency (in the non-Trainer lock matchups).

Spoiler

Pokémon - 19

1 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
3 Gyarados-EX BKP 26
2 M Gyarados-EX BKP 115
1 M Gyarados-EX BKP 27
1 Manaphy-EX BKP 32
2 Palkia-EX BKP 31
2 Golduck BREAK BKP 18
2 Psyduck BKP 16
2 Golduck BKP 17
1 Regice AOR 24
1 Remoraid BKT 31
1 Octillery BKT 33

Trainer Cards - 30

3 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
4 Ultra Ball DEX 102
2 Lysandre FLF 90
1 Super Rod BKT 149
3 Gyarados Spirit Link BKP 101
2 Judge BKT 143
3 Professor Birch's Observations PRC 134
3 Dive Ball PRC 125
2 Max Potion BKP 103
3 Professor Sycamore PHF 101
4 VS Seeker PHF 109

Energy - 11

11 Water Energy BLWEnergy 9

Total Cards - 60

 

[Phoenix15]

merging the 3 concepts into one

This is never a good thing.
Stick to one purpose, make it as streamlined and consistent as possible, and test it out.

I have been on the opposing side of a lot of matches against this deck.
The slow set ups on this deck's part are hard things to get past.
By the time you get rolling by T4-5, it's way too late

 

[Lenny]

As much as it hurts to admit, I think you're absolutely right @Phoenix15. I've made edits to the deck and completely removed Shaymin-EX and the Octillery line. The deck now runs on Vs Seeker + Supporters as its card-draw engine. I will admit that there have been games where I draw none and it is tough, but I'm not sure if that is bad luck or bad deck building. Anyways, let me know how this updated and more streamlined version looks:

Pokemon (17):

• 3 Gyarados-EX
• 3 M Gyarados-EX
• 2 Palkia-EX
• 1 Manaphy-EX
• 2 Psyduck
• 2 Golduck
• 2 Golduck BREAK
• 2 Regice

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums (31):

• 2 Max Potion
• 1 Super Rod
• 1 Fighting Fury Belt
• 1 Town Map
• 3 Trainers' Mail
• 4 Vs Seeker
• 3 Gyarados Spirit Link
• 4 Dive Ball
• 3 Professor Sycamore
• 3 Professor Birch's Observations
• 2 Judge
• 2 Lysandre
• 2 Rough Seas

Energy (12):

• 12 Water Energy

Some notes:

1) I completely removed the Octillery and Shaymin and am now a more streamlined version of the deck. Only set-up required is Golduck BREAK, along with Manaphy-EX helps us come back from behind by moving our resources around much more easily like onto a new attacker/active Pokemon. The deck's draw engine is now just supporters with Vs Seeker as "extras".

2) Is a second Manaphy-EX something that should be considered? It is not completely integral to the deck working, but being able to move Energy and free-retreat helps us trade damage around all of our Pokemon and avoid KOs entirely. Having our 1 Manaphy-EX prized can really hurt sometimes.

3) Trainers' Mail seems do be doing a good job at the moment at provide speed to the deck and getting the right Trainers at the right time. I could see cutting down to 2 and adding another draw supporter instead.

4) Fighting Fury Belt and Town Map are back in the flex spots. Fighting Fury Belt is just awesome whether it be on a Manaphy-EX, Palkia-EX, or Regice. It will do work no matter what matchup. Town Map is some extra gravy so we can pick the appropriate prize cards. Not sure if Town Map still deserves a slot but it is absolutely nice.

5) Is 12 Water Energy too much? I've removed the Splash Energy entirely from the deck because they can be a liability against Special Energy discard. Also, are cards like Delinquent worth it these days? I've definitely had trouble getting past certain Stadiums and Delinquent seems like it could be great in some match ups.

Thoughts and opinions?

 

[GreenPariah]

As much as it hurts to admit, I think you're absolutely right @Phoenix15. I've made edits to the deck and completely removed Shaymin-EX and the Octillery line. The deck now runs on Vs Seeker + Supporters as its card-draw engine. I will admit that there have been games where I draw none and it is tough, but I'm not sure if that is bad luck or bad deck building. Anyways, let me know how this updated and more streamlined version looks:

Pokemon (17):

• 3 Gyarados-EX
• 3 M Gyarados-EX
• 2 Palkia-EX
• 1 Manaphy-EX
• 2 Psyduck
• 2 Golduck
• 2 Golduck BREAK
• 2 Regice

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums (31):

• 2 Max Potion
• 1 Super Rod
• 1 Fighting Fury Belt
• 1 Town Map
• 3 Trainers' Mail
• 4 Vs Seeker
• 3 Gyarados Spirit Link
• 4 Dive Ball
• 3 Professor Sycamore
• 3 Professor Birch's Observations
• 2 Judge
• 2 Lysandre
• 2 Rough Seas

Energy (12):

• 12 Water Energy

Some notes:

1) I completely removed the Octillery and Shaymin and am now a more streamlined version of the deck. Only set-up required is Golduck BREAK, along with Manaphy-EX helps us come back from behind by moving our resources around much more easily like onto a new attacker/active Pokemon. The deck's draw engine is now just supporters with Vs Seeker as "extras".

2) Is a second Manaphy-EX something that should be considered? It is not completely integral to the deck working, but being able to move Energy and free-retreat helps us trade damage around all of our Pokemon and avoid KOs entirely. Having our 1 Manaphy-EX prized can really hurt sometimes.

3) Trainers' Mail seems do be doing a good job at the moment at provide speed to the deck and getting the right Trainers at the right time. I could see cutting down to 2 and adding another draw supporter instead.

4) Fighting Fury Belt and Town Map are back in the flex spots. Fighting Fury Belt is just awesome whether it be on a Manaphy-EX, Palkia-EX, or Regice. It will do work no matter what matchup. Town Map is some extra gravy so we can pick the appropriate prize cards. Not sure if Town Map still deserves a slot but it is absolutely nice.

5) Is 12 Water Energy too much? I've removed the Splash Energy entirely from the deck because they can be a liability against Special Energy discard. Also, are cards like Delinquent worth it these days? I've definitely had trouble getting past certain Stadiums and Delinquent seems like it could be great in some match ups.

Thoughts and opinions?

The Second Manaphy EX is certainly not necessary. If worse comes to worse you can manual retreat, and get the energy back via super rod. It's rough but you dont need to risk 4 easy prizes, for free retreat. The 12 water energy is a bit high, especially in a deck that can focus on conserving energy once it is on the board. But it is right about where you should want it. Between 10-12 is where i would want a deck of this Archetype to be at. Has the singelton FFB really helped? If not, i would consider replacing it with a Delinquent.

 

[Phoenix15]

Another suggestion would be removing the Golduck and adding the Octillery back.
You could get more consistency cards that way.

 

[Lenny]

Tested a ton. Have a new, revised list that is far more consistent than any of my previous builds and has the ability to start attacking as early as Turn 2. Not incorporating Max Elixir into my lists was a mistake.

New List:

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

Pokémon - 19

2 Gyarados-EX BKP 26
2 M Gyarados-EX BKP 115
1 Manaphy-EX BKP 32
2 Palkia-EX BKP 31
2 Golduck BREAK BKP 18
2 Psyduck BKP 16
2 Golduck BKP 17
2 Regice AOR 24
2 Remoraid BKT 31
2 Octillery BKT 33

Trainer Cards - 30

2 Rough Seas PRC 137
4 Ultra Ball DEX 102
2 Lysandre FLF 90
1 Super Rod BKT 149
3 Brigette BKT 134
2 Gyarados Spirit Link BKP 101
4 Max Elixir BKP 102
4 Professor Birch's Observations PRC 134
4 Dive Ball PRC 125
1 Skyla BKP 122
1 Max Potion BKP 103
2 VS Seeker PHF 109

Energy - 11

11 Water Energy

Total Cards - 60

---

New, important changes include the addition of 3 Brigette which allows us to consistently get Octillery and Golduck set up by Turn 2. Usually both, but sometimes one or the other depending on the nature of the matchup (for example, I very rarely set up Octillery against Night March). Instead of wasting our search balls gathering the basics we need for set up, Brigette allows us to use them a lot more efficiently for our Stage 1/2 Pokemon.

As stated above, 4 Max Elixir has the off chance of getting Palkia-EX up and attacking as early as Turn 1 with the right draw. More typically, it lets us get Regice out attacking on Turn 2, which is extremely important in so many matchups.

We opt out of Professor Sycamore and instead go for Professor Birch because we have a lot of moving pieces that we don't necessarily need at one point in the game but will need later so sending them to the discard pile can be unfortunate. While Birch has the unfortunate 50% chance of drawing 4 cards and potentially re-drawing a lot of the same cards we just sent back, it is a necessary evil.

1-of Skyla allows us to fetch out important trainers like Max Potion, Gyarados Spirit Link, Super Rod, Vs Seeker, and whatever else we may need at the moment.

Now, in the list of Pokemon we see a lot of 2-ofs. In fact, I trimmed down the Gyarados-EX line to 2-2 because it wasn't actually a Pokemon we want to always start with. Most of the time, it is best to get set up and plop down Gyarados on the bench T2 or T3 even. The deck has a lot of versatility with its attackers and overloading on Gyarados and Spirit Links is unnecessary. We have a lot more consistency and less dead draws with a more streamlined list. I'd say Palkia-EX and Regice do a fair share of the attacking compared to Gyarados-EX, all depends on the matchup.

Overall, I think the deck has pretty good matchups across the board, EXCEPT Night March.
-Trevenant Lock isn't bad as long as they don't pull it off Turn 1 because Palkia-EX is an engine in and of itself and can get our board charged up pretty easily.
-M Mewtwo EX is actually a great matchup because like us, they need a turn or two to set up which gives us enough time. If we can control the tempo of the game with our Lysandre and Regice for a turn or two, we generally are favored.
-Entei/Charizard-EX is relatively favorable, although they have the ability to really explode out of the gates. Weakness is in our favor and if we can set up Regice by T2 with the help of Max Elixir we should be very favored.
-Flareon-EX, similar to the above matchup, is relatively favorable but they can also have fast starts. Regice is critical in this matchup as is Golduck BREAK because Flareon-EX can't always one-shot our Pokemon, so Max Potion becomes an all-star here.
-Garchomp can be favorable, depending on how badly they dilute their list with cards like Lucario-EX or Shaymin-EX. The slower they are, the better chance we have. The straight Garchomp/Shaymin-EX or Octillery lists can be tough to beat and we might have to throw prize fodder at the Garchomp until we can set up. M Gyarados-EX is our best chance at winning against them because it has to be 2HKO'd unlike Palkia-EX which can be easily 1-shot'd.
-Night March...don't even get me started. Any variation of the deck is extremely difficult. Something like 10-90 in their favor. The best avenues to victory against Night March is smart use of Lysandre paired with our more efficient attackers such as Palkia-EX, Regice, or Manaphy-EX. In fact, Golduck can be an all-star here because of Derail that lets us discard their special energies. Night March is a pretty efficient deck that can pretty easily draw into more energy or other gas, but there is that slight chance that you can get them stuck. If you can somehow get to the late-game, knocking out Joltik's on the bench with Palkia-EX can swing the tide in our favor. However, after lots and lots of playtesting, we are just too slow and non-disruptive enough to compete with Night March. We do best competing against the decks that are out to get Night March (ex Trainer Lock).
-Vespiquen, also slightly unfavored just because we have Grass Weakness and they can occasionally tech the Eevolutions for better typing. Without M Gyarados-EX to tank, our attackers can be slightly unfavored against theirs. And if they are a hybrid with Night March, it gets even worse.
-Then, against the remaining Tier 1/2/3 decks we tend to do pretty well. Any deck that requires set up like us can be outdone. When we have our Golduck BREAK and Manaphy-EX out, we can really lock the game out of reach for most decks. If they're slower than us, we can beat them. There aren't many decks that are slower than us and have a bigger pay-off than a Pokemon that can deal upwards of 200 damage per hit. Only deck that might be capable of literally stalling us out is Wailord-EX although with smart play a M Gyarados-EX can one-shot Wailord-EX, although deck size can definitely become an issue late game.

Overall pretty happy with the list. Only issues are the occasional clunky draws, but I'm not sure if that's just bad luck or if there is a way to increase consistency of the list even more.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

To enhance your consistency even more, have you tested Trainer's Mail? Consider -3 Ultra Ball (do you "really" even need the 4th?), +3 Trainer's Mail.

 

[Lenny]

I'm not sure cutting the balls is the right move. Ultra Ball helps increase consistency by a lot, lets us discard to reduce hand size, and also lets us remove cards from our hand so that Birch doesn't shuffle them back in (like Brigette once we're set up, or other Pokemon that we won't want to draw later).

The list is currently pretty streamlined and I think this is the point where we try to play around with the numbers like all of the 4-ofs. I could see cutting a Dive Ball, a Professor Birch and arguably Skyla for 2-3 Trainers' Mail. I'll try that and see if that helps at all.

EDIT: Cut the exact cards I mentioned above for 3 Trainers' Mail and the deck actually runs a lot more smoothly. Loving the addition of Trainers' Mail, although I do miss the versatility of Skyla. If anyone has a suggestion on how to get Skyla back in the list let me know!

 

[Mora]

Could you please keep an updated list in your original post? Thanks!

 

[Lenny]

Main post list updated, thanks for the heads up!

Things of concern with the current list: I would really like room for a Skyla. Fetching up one of our Gyarados Spirit Links is a little tougher now with only 2 of everything for the Gyarados-EX line. Having a supporter that can fetch that, or Super Rod, or Max Potion, anytime in the game is just a lot of versatility that I think is important but I'm not sure where it could fit in.

 

[Errenar]

We have an almost close decklist but im doing some experiments without running Golduck break, one thing i've noticed is that once i pumped my M gyara up and it dies it's really hard to build up another one because of energy loss since to easily pump M Gyara you have to combine it with Palk aside from the max elixirs thats already 6 out of your 11 Energies out on the field, also i have a 90% lose rate to Raikou/Magnezone decks actually any deck with lightning as a main runner is a threat.

 

[WastedSkyPirate]

Poor, poor M Gyarados! He really suffers from his weakness to Electric - Night March and Manectric decks being his two biggest banes. Furthermore, these decks are very quick whilst Gyarados is very slow. It is absolutely heartbreaking to have nurtured a M Gyarados-EX, with 4 Water Energy, only for it to be one-hit-KO'd, in one turn, by a Joltik!

If Gyarados wants to be taken seriously, the deck will have to speed up and have a way to deal with the Electric weakness. The speed issue revolves purely around energy acceleration - otherwise you're relying on lucky Stormy Seas flips! Here are the main options:

1. Palkia-EX
2. Lapras
3. Max Elixir
4. Mega Turbo

Looking at the cards above, the obvious synergy is between Palkia-EX & Max Elixir and Lapras & Mega Turbo; one group takes energy from the deck, one takes energy from the discard pile. In the case of the latter, Battle Compressor would be needed to facilitate the energy dumping.

To deal with the Electric weakness, there are less options available to us. Short of adding fighting energy, the only splashable, Basic Fighting type is Hitmonchan from FFI (let me know if you can think of anymore). Obviously, Hitmonchan doesn't come close to solving our problems, so we'll have to consider something that takes an element of setup. The clear candidate is Gallade; it shines in the Manectric matchup as it can OHKO both Manectric-EX and M Manectric-EX, whilst surviving one Assault Laser/Turbo Bolt.

If we're using Gallade then we'll also be using Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick and Battle Compressor. As previously mentioned, Battle Compressor lends itself to our energy acceleration plans, using Lapras and Mega Turbo. So, in theory, the two strategies have some synergy. Here is my deck list for Gyarados/Gallade:

Pokemon (11)

2-2 M Gyarados
2 Shaymin-EX
2 Lapras
1 Manaphy-EX
1 Regice
1 Gallade

Trainers (37)

4 Professor Sycamore
1 Lysandre
1 AZ
1 Teammates
1 Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick

4 VS Seeker
4 Ultra Ball
4 Trainers' Mail
4 Battle Compressor
4 Acro Bike
4 Mega Turbo
2 Gyarados Spirit Link
1 Escape Rope

2 Rough Seas

Energy (12)

9 Water Energy
3 Double Colourless Energy


In theory and practice the above works fairly well, however, it falls down for the fundamental flaws with Gyarados - during all of the turns that you need to setup, another deck, such as Night March, could have taken 4 or more prizes! Despite that though, it's good fun to play and works well more often than not. Feel free to test it out for yourself!

 

[Mora]

Personally, I think you'd be much better off just playing Regice and maybe Articuno. M Gyarados EX is more of a liability than anything.