XY Physical/Special Moves That Don't Fit The Category - Explain Your Reasoning!

Blob55

Blob55

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Is anyone else puzzled by the fact that Water Shuriken is Physical, but Greninja is more Special Attack based?

[smod]Drohn[/smod]: I split your post from the thread you posted it in so it wouldn't be off-topic. I made a slight edit to prevent confusion. Feel free to discuss any move of which you think they don't fit the category they're in!
 
RE: Pokémon That Don't Learn Attacks That Fit Them - Why Should they Learn Them?

I admit, it does have higher base Spatk (only by 8 though) than attack, but what you say is not true at all. Competitive battling has made Greninja into a stereotypical Sp attacker. Water shuriken is designed to be like a real life shuriken, hitting physically. I don't know why you're complaining about something so little.
 
RE: Pokémon That Don't Learn Attacks That Fit Them - Why Should they Learn Them?

zavtac said:
I admit, it does have higher base Spatk (only by 8 though) than attack, but what you say is not true at all. Competitive battling has made Greninja into a stereotypical Sp attacker. Water shuriken is designed to be like a real life shuriken, hitting physically. I don't know why you're complaining about something so little.
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I get why it's Physical, but not why nothing else can learn it. It just seems like a waste to me that the one Pokémon that can learn it has much better moves anyway. You'd think sig moves would be the best move a Pokémon can learn.
 
RE: Pokémon That Don't Learn Attacks That Fit Them - Why Should they Learn Them?

Blob55 said:
zavtac said:
I admit, it does have higher base Spatk (only by 8 though) than attack, but what you say is not true at all. Competitive battling has made Greninja into a stereotypical Sp attacker. Water shuriken is designed to be like a real life shuriken, hitting physically. I don't know why you're complaining about something so little.
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I get why it's Physical, but not why nothing else can learn it. It just seems like a waste to me that the one Pokémon that can learn it has much better moves anyway. You'd think sig moves would be the best move a Pokémon can learn.
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As do I but for some reason the thought of creating a shuriken made of water without touching it and then launching it just does not seem very physical imo.

Also just because a pokemon uses a certain concept it does not mean it has to learn moves based on that concept just yet.

That said we have never seen Zangoose and Seviper fight against each other except in trainer battles until the horde battle mechanic. Yes I know that this comment is a bit off topic but it helps explain my point.
 
RE: Pokémon That Don't Learn Attacks That Fit Them - Why Should they Learn Them?

It was so annoying getting Zangoose in Y, because the only way I could capture one, was training my Skiddo to a high enough level that let it use Bulldoze, so the Sevipers are KO'd instead of Zangoose.

As for Water Shuriken, I think Oshawott and Dewott should learn it, but not Samurott.
 
RE: Pokémon That Don't Learn Attacks That Fit Them - Why Should they Learn Them?

The reason Water Shuriken is Greninja's signature move, is because the move is described as throwing water based ninja stars. Greninja is based on a ninja and has ninja star patters on it's body. Why it's a physical move? I have no idea, but the same can be said for Earthquake and Bulldoze. Maybe Game Freak decided to make it a physical move since it's a high priority attack? If Water Shuriken was a special attack, with it's high priority, Greninja would be a sweeper.
 
RE: Pokémon That Don't Learn Attacks That Fit Them - Why Should they Learn Them?

Raptor9229 said:
Prince Dedenne, Bulldoze being a physical move confuses you?

I just imagine that after stomping on the ground pillars of rock (happens in the pokemon world) appear in front of the opponent and the user literally bulldozes right through that pillar of rock or ground and hurts the opponent's pokemon.
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Wouldn't that make it a Rock type move? Sorta sounds like a quadrupedal version of Rock Smash. (I know it's a Fighting Move)
I just imagine Bulldoze as a Move where the Pokémon runs into the opponent, while flattening the ground.

According to the Animé, the Pokémon stomps on the ground, causing Shock Waves on the Ground, which hits all opponents. Now I can see why PD was confused by it being Physical.
 
RE: Pokémon That Don't Learn Attacks That Fit Them - Why Should they Learn Them?

As near as I can tell, Bulldoze is just Earthquake with less power and a Speed drain. The entries just say 'The user strikes everything around it by stomping down on the ground. This lowers the Speed stat of those hit.' The entries for EQ just say that the Pokemon sets off a quake ... it doesn't say how.
 
RE: Physical/Special Moves That Don't Fit The Category - Explain You Reasoning!

Woo. I started a thread unintentionally!

FoxFire, the same could be said for Bite and Crunch.
 
Physical/Special Moves That Don't Fit The Category - Explain You Reasoning!

I've always been baffled as to why Sacred Fire is physical.


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RE: Physical/Special Moves That Don't Fit The Category - Explain You Reasoning!

His Goominess said:
I've always been baffled as to why Sacred Fire is physical.


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As the thread's title states, please don't forget to explain your reasoning as to why you feel that way.

I for one have always been confused as to why Fling, is a physical move?
The XY move description is, "The user flings its held item at the target to attack. This move's power and effects depend on the item." Since the attacker is throwing it's item, shouldn't it be a special attack? I've always felt that a physical move should include some form of physical contact. Ex. Bug Bite, Crunch, Dragon Claw....
 
RE: Physical/Special Moves That Don't Fit The Category - Explain You Reasoning!

His Goominess said:
I've always been baffled as to why Sacred Fire is physical.


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Sacred Fire is most likely physical because it was Ho-Oh's signature attack, and his Attack stat is higher. Keep in mind that before the physical/special split, it was special due to being a Fire-type attack.
 
RE: Physical/Special Moves That Don't Fit The Category - Explain You Reasoning!

Prince Dedenne said:
His Goominess said:
I've always been baffled as to why Sacred Fire is physical.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

As the thread's title states, please don't forget to explain your reasoning as to why you feel that way.

I for one have always been confused as to why Fling, is a physical move?
The XY move description is, "The user flings its held item at the target to attack. This move's power and effects depend on the item." Since the attacker is throwing it's item, shouldn't it be a special attack? I've always felt that a physical move should include some form of physical contact. Ex. Bug Bite, Crunch, Dragon Claw....
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For physical moves such as Fling, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Gunk Shot, Ice Shard, etc, they are physical because they involve tangible objects hitting the opponent. A "solid" object you could say. The thing with special moves is that they are attacks made up of energy/intangible objects like fire, light, or literal energy. But before I am bombarded with crazy counterarguments, there are exceptions to this. It is Gamefreak after all, when have they ever known to make perfect logic.
 
Water Shuriken should've been a special move that does physical damage, like Psyshock/Psystrike/Secret Sword.
 
Bolt the Cat said:
Water Shuriken should've been a special move that does physical damage, like Psyshock/Psystrike/Secret Sword.
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And not only those, but all the ones king xerneas mentioned too. They depend on a user's physical strength, that's why they're physical and use the attack stat, but they don't involve any contact.
Razor leaf and psycho cut are two more.
 
I more or less accept it as-is, but I mostly think that any attack based on matter should be physical, and any attack based on energy should be special. Just some of them would be contact moves and some wouldn't. Then you get into some of the odd ones like Dragon or Fairy, which are undefinable in that manner, or Normal, which is kind of the leftovers of the type system. And we'd wind up with lots of unhappy Damanitan and Starmie.
 
Rock blast is physical and yet I dont think you make any physical contact with the opponent but you can still be affected by abilities such as Poison Point or Gooey. It a make a no sense!

I believe other rock moves fall under this category along with previously mentioned Ground type moves and moves like Ice Shard. But since they're physical they get affected by the ability. Plus most rock types are all physical so they'd do very low down damage if these turned special but I think there should be a difference between close range and long range physical attacks.
 
MrSquarepants said:
Rock blast is physical and yet I dont think you make any physical contact with the opponent but you can still be affected by abilities such as Poison Point or Gooey. It a make a no sense!

I believe other rock moves fall under this category along with previously mentioned Ground type moves and moves like Ice Shard. But since they're physical they get affected by the ability. Plus most rock types are all physical so they'd do very low down damage if these turned special but I think there should be a difference between close range and long range physical attacks.
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Well, I think moves like Fling and Rock Blast should be Physical, as the Pokémon is throwing a solid object at the opponent. Special moves tend to involve energy of some kind and someone throwing/shooting a rock is clearly different from a move like flamethrower, which is pure energy/chemical reaction.
 
I just realized that razor leaf is a physical move . . . sure it kind of makes sense but at the same time it does not.
 
Blob55 said:
MrSquarepants said:
Rock blast is physical and yet I dont think you make any physical contact with the opponent but you can still be affected by abilities such as Poison Point or Gooey. It a make a no sense!

I believe other rock moves fall under this category along with previously mentioned Ground type moves and moves like Ice Shard. But since they're physical they get affected by the ability. Plus most rock types are all physical so they'd do very low down damage if these turned special but I think there should be a difference between close range and long range physical attacks.
Click to expand...

Well, I think moves like Fling and Rock Blast should be Physical, as the Pokémon is throwing a solid object at the opponent. Special moves tend to involve energy of some kind and someone throwing/shooting a rock is clearly different from a move like flamethrower, which is pure energy/chemical reaction.
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Well that does make sense but I can't see how Rock Blast could trigger abilities that require physical contact like a punching or slashing move would.

...I mean I guess I can see if you threw a rock at Dragalgae and its poison could splash at you maybe. Or if my Floette used Razor Leaf on a Sliggoo and its goo could splash to make the Gooey ability make sense.
 
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