Discussion Pidgeot-EX Deck Concept

ReapThaWhirlwind

ReapThaWhirlwind

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Had an idea for a neat Pidgeot-EX deck concept and wanted to discuss its competitive potential. The strategy for this deck revolves around the [Mirror Move] concept featured on the PokéBeach front page awhile back. This new version of the deck retains the use of Max Potion to offset the damage stack in the wake of [Mirror Move], but further includes the addition of Ninja Boy and Pyukumuku, to enable a powerplay between them that can put the opponent into a self-Knock Out scenario at the last moment.

A few other interesting options I had thought to pair this deck with was Bursting Balloon, which seems to hold immense synergy with Pyukumuku—as well as [Mirror Move]—given the additional 60 damage jump on the damage stack it provides to compliment the latency of [Mirror Move]'s effect damage.

Pidgeot Spirit Link is another really great option I've pondered running in this deck. As M Pidgeot has free retreat, and this can enable a starting Pidgeot-EX to burst off Max Potion—instantly mega evolve—and then go stand-alone with a benched Pyukumuku, to move it in, and then put the opponent into the same self Knock Out scenario while M Pidgeot charges up from the bench.

I think it would need a Fighting-type Pokémon to offset Pidgeot's Weakness type, but I've have looked over any additions to consider it. Anything come to mind off the top of anyone's head? This deck would also want a to include a GX as well, but the only GX I can think of that fits into the theme is Tauros GX. In this case, a tech on a Psychic type would another good idea to offset Tauros-GX's Weakness.

The deck kind of gives me the most Might Guy/Kakashi team-up vibe about it, with the pairing of Pidgeot and Tauros, and furthermore still question what Energy type would be best to set the Colorless deck in.

Any thoughts or ideas?
 
How does Pyukumuku synergize with Mirror Move? It puts the extra damage on the opposing Pokémon, but then the Pidgeot took no damage and therefore can't use Mirror Move. (Well technically he can but for 0 damage.) I don't think they really go together. If you could explain it I could be convinced though as the Pyukumuku is kinda a fun card. :)

Do you have a decklist? This section is for posting a 60 card decklist so if you do go ahead and post it so we can see what you were thinking in addition to the commentary provided.
 
TheGuardian118 said:
How does Pyukumuku synergize with Mirror Move? It puts the extra damage on the opposing Pokémon, but then the Pidgeot took no damage and therefore can't use Mirror Move. (Well technically he can but for 0 damage.) I don't think they really go together. If you could explain it I could be convinced though as the Pyukumuku is kinda a fun card. :)

Do you have a decklist? This section is for posting a 60 card decklist so if you do go ahead and post it so we can see what you were thinking in addition to the commentary provided.
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I explained this in the opening post.

The idea here is to hit the opponent with [Mirror Move], then move in Pyukumuku next turn to put the opponent into a self-Knock Out scenario. From there, Pidgeot can be fully healed with Max Potion, M Evolved, or moved off the bench with Ninja Boy—in place of something like Tauros-GX—which gains an immense powerboost from any damage counters transferred. Pyukumuku also makes an effective place holder for the opening spot with the 60 damage jump it gets when Knocked Out—stacking even better with Bursting Balloon—which can enable a benched Tauros-GX, Pidgeot-EX, or M Pidgeot to swing in and effectively finish off the opponent's Active Pokémon.
 
It sounds kind of slow. I'll write out some turns to see if I understand what I'm thinking you would do and show what I would do in an ideal game. Turn 1, you have active Pidgeot and one benched, start powering up the benched one. Turn 2, they hit the active, you full heal, attach energy and MM (Mirror Move). Turn 3, they either hit again, allowing another MM or pass. Turn 4 is where I think we start to differ.

Scenario A: Here's where you're recommending putting up the Pyukumuku and giving them a free KO, which means they have 1 taken so far to your 0. Your next move is what? MM won't work since Pidgeot didn't take a hit. If you weren't able to fully heal then Ninja Boy into Tauros won't work as they would have hit you on Turn 3 and most likely got the KO in our two hit meta. I really don't think anyone is going to attack into Pyukumuku+balloon as they could just wait a turn for the balloon to drop, which might be a great stall tactic, but not game winning. Pyukumuku has a retreat cost so attaching and retreating slows down your Pidgeot build up for the second attack or the Mega, plus you can't MM so you need that DCE attach on the bird this turn to use the other attacks. You could run switch/Olympia or something, which might help.

Scenario B: If you had the heal and they attacked, MM again for the KO. If you have second heal+attach use it, if not just power up that benched one and go mega with that one. Use MM for a KO, then prepare for them to follow up KO you for a favorable prize trade in your favor since you have initiative with a mega ready.

I could see it working, but it doesn't seem as consistent to willingly give up prizes in the current meta when you could just run more threats. I do think Ninja Boy into Tauros could be fun, but at the same time the point of MM is to take the damage so it's two things that want to take damage, the overlap might not be great.

I am interested in a decklist if you have one though. Might give it a spin on PTCGO to see how it fares. I could be totally wrong and the prize trade works or the scare tactic slows them down.
 
I don't have a decklist. This was just a concept I had in mind for the Standard format, based on the new Pyukumuku release. I'm actually in the process of shelling out my entire deck collection and quitting the game, because I've been facing a very stressful, and seemingly hopeless situation online that I'm just beyond sick of dealing with. If you want to check this out, you can simply click on the link in my sig. Otherwise though, due to this, I'm not really in the sport of whipping anymore decks up. Just wanted to discuss the topic with people who actually play in the Standard format consistently, who might have possibly gained some experience with this Pidgeot build by now, to see what insights they might be able to provide on its strengths and weaknesses based on their experiences. From there, I would give my best counter-analysis on the subject, and consider what adjustments might benefit this deck best.
 
Well Pidgeot-EX is the only deck I'm playing and I can say for sure that Pidgeot has no ability to deal with decks that can nuke it and they don't seem to be slowing down any time soon. 170 and 220 HP just isn't enough to really do anything with and all matchups seem to come down to some Pokemon that can deal 220+ damage. I also noticed that Pidgeot's early game just isn't there but there are some new tools to mess around with like Nest Ball, which can at least let you get Pokemon down quickly. I think the biggest issue Pidgeot is facing is an identity crisis. You can't play it fast like all other decks because it needs very specific cards to do well with. It also doesn't have access to Supporters that can do well with it since all draw options leave you in the same boat or somewhere worst with its best option being Skyla. I believe that Mallow will fix any options Pidgeot is having with the meta but that is a few months away from now. It also combos well with Hammers but the problem is they are flippy and Enhanced Hammer can be dead in a match. They also can take up to seven cards just for energy disruption (which Pidgeot benefits from) but four of them are tails fails effects and one to two of them can't even hit a Benched Pokemon (Team Flare Grunt).

I still believe that playing it slow is the best way to play it but I think it needs to be tweaked a bit since the meta isn't what is used to be. While hammers is good, I feel being a bit faster can be the best prevention from getting damage scaled but Pokemon like Solgaleo-GX just auto win you since Pidgeot has no options against it, which is why I don't like cards with huge numbers printed on it because it turns into a race against the clock, in which you're not allowed to miss any cards. I now believe that speeding up the deck while maintaining its style of play is the best way. This means removing all techs that don't do you any good, which means no hammers. Magearna-EX is still needed since it makes the Fairy match up much easier though it can be done without.

I think Pidgeot needs additional cards to do well or something to give it more HP so it can tank hits. It still does well against decks that trade hits with it but if it come across a deck that can OHKO it, you just lose and your Max Potions just become dead cards, which makes it harder to use Octillery since they just sit in your hand. I don't think other cards can really work with it but I'm still looking for other options but I think each card option needs to let Pidgeot do what it wants to do better so no useless tech. I think the biggest problem facing Pidgeot EX and its mega is the fact it doesn't have enough HP.
 
By cards that can nuke it, you mean Electric-type?

What are your thoughts on the addition of Pyukumuku? It makes a decent alternative starter to Pidgeot, and should enable M Pidgeot to setup from the bench and work around cards that can One-Hit KO it as you're saying. What are your thoughts on the addition of Bursting Balloon/Eco Arm? Based on my experience with that suite, I would recommend running it in a 4-2-1 split—Bursting Balloon/Fighting Fury Belt/Eco Arm—in the Standard format. The Fighting Fury belt effectively take the place of Rock Guard that I traditionally use in the Expanded format. The Fighting Fury Belt provide a little extended potential as well, which mean less go farter, and should enable a single tech on Eco Arm, rather than a heavy tech of 2 Eco Arm, as I like to traditionally run in the Bursting Balloon/Rock Guard suite to enable game-long plays on those cards.
 
By nuke I assume he means anything that can OHKO it or uses ability based damage. Volcanion can hit 220 regularly, Darkrai decks can as well, Lurantis's GX attack, Tauros's GX once he has some damage, also while not as popular anymore Greninja Break also could easily work around it with the ability. I don't play bees so I'm not sure if they can easily reach the full 220 on a mega, but they should be able to hit 170 regularly. Also, as you mention electric types that hit for weakness.

I think you have to be careful with too many tools, as you'll probably want spirit links if you are running megas. If not, then FFB would probably be the better choice for the extra health. I do like the balloons in this deck idea though. By attacking you not only enable MM, you also take 60 damage on top of it. Might make an opponent lysandre a less desirable target or stall a bit.
 
ReapThaWhirlwind said:
The idea here is to hit the opponent with [Mirror Move]...
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At which point your turn is over, and your opponent can attack again. In order to bring in Pyukumuku, you'll have to give up a shot from Mirror Move. Might like it to help soften an opponent up, but shouldn't Pidgeot-EX decks just use Tauros-GX? Pidgeot-EX with Fighting Fury Belt does the same damage, but for one more Energy Tauros-GX is doing 20+ the amount of damage on it. Let me be clear, I still mean using the two together, including Ninja Boy to catch your opponent off guard, and while they last, using Max Potion for healing Pidgeot-EX.
 
The problem is deck space. Pyukumuku is a cute idea and I looked at it but its one of those cards that if I have room for it, I'd much rather use something else, like more healing or tech attackers to help with matchups. On top of that, Silent Lab completely stops it. Not saying it isn't good but you'd much rather Bursting Balloon in that case but the problem is still Pidgeot's low 170 HP. You want cards that will help Pidgeot do its thing.

Otaku said:
At which point your turn is over, and your opponent can attack again. In order to bring in Pyukumuku, you'll have to give up a shot from Mirror Move. Might like it to help soften an opponent up, but shouldn't Pidgeot-EX decks just use Tauros-GX? Pidgeot-EX with Fighting Fury Belt does the same damage, but for one more Energy Tauros-GX is doing 20+ the amount of damage on it. Let me be clear, I still mean using the two together, including Ninja Boy to catch your opponent off guard, and while they last, using Max Potion for healing Pidgeot-EX.
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I was thinking of looking at Tauros-GX but the problem was getting the Ninja Boy when I need it and having the Tauros-GX in the deck. Finding the space is quite hard. given all the things you need to run.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
I was thinking of looking at Tauros-GX but the problem was getting the Ninja Boy when I need it and having the Tauros-GX in the deck. Finding the space is quite hard. given all the things you need to run.
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This is true; I don't have the deck made, but I'm getting closer. XD I managed to find room for Ninja Boy and at least one Tauros-GX in a few other decks, so if at all possible I recommend you try as well. Of course, we have a different approach to deck building, so maybe it really is not possible for you. Unless it isn't possible because, as I just said, I spoke up without a concrete list. >.>
 
Otaku said:
This is true; I don't have the deck made, but I'm getting closer. XD I managed to find room for Ninja Boy and at least one Tauros-GX in a few other decks, so if at all possible I recommend you try as well. Of course, we have a different approach to deck building, so maybe it really is not possible for you. Unless it isn't possible because, as I just said, I spoke up without a concrete list. >.>
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I can try to make the space but I don't know where that gets me. If anything can OHKO a Pidgeot, it'll OHKO a Tauros too. It many cases, I'm just better using a Max Potion and hitting them back and if I have to sac a Pidgeot, chances are I might not even have access to Ninja Boy or Tauros. While the card combo is nice, I just don't think it works well enough for Pidgeot. I haven't tested it so I'm willing to but it doesn't let Pidgeot do what it wants to do better.
 
You may not have much experience strategies other than Swarmer ones, but I can tell you from experience that Out-Fighter strategies that set up from the bench can be immensely powerful. This kind of strategy would constitute running a whole playset of Pyukumuku, which enables them to go out as the starting Pokémon at the opening of the game alongside Bursting Balloon—and like a watermine—deter the opponent from attacking while you set up for M Pidgeot.

I did suggest Tauros-GX in this strategy, and would probably split 2 of them between a 3-2 Pidgeot/M Pidgot line. Consider other forms of disruption to run this strategy—such as running 4 Judge—and running Delinquent instead of Lysandre or Pokémon Center Lady. One of the major issues that would come to mind for me would be keeping such cards out of the opponent's hand (to prevent them from flushing out your Out-Fighters and breaking your momentum).

Judge and Delinquent would be a really effective pair for this. If you do it right, you can easily bounce back from a Turn 1 play on Judge, and skip the [Mirror Move] strategy straight to M Pidgeot domination. Techniques for this can include running 4 Professor Sycamore alongside Judge—or with the new releases—one can experiment with running 4 Lillie. Another great suggestion would be some kind of hybrid split between Lillie, Professor Sycamore, and some technical additions from N, Skyla, Teammates, or Misty's Determination. For what this deck is doing, I would say N and Teammates would be your best options. This leaning strongly towards Teammates, as Pyukumuku easily helps to enable it, and it can be used to instantly patch up odd ends for M Pidgeot and Pidgeot Spirit Link.

I've seen reports saying that Volcanion is a prominent issue in the Standard format, so if Pyukumuku sets a small foundation in the Water-type, mine as well run with that and base the deck in the Water-type, with another addition from some other Water-type Pokémon that might be able to get the Type-advantage against Volcanion. Any ideas on which that might be? As previously stated, starting with Pyukumuku enables a strong defense against Swarmers like Volcanion, which can effectively force the opponent to knock themselves out if you can keep cards like Lysandre out of their hand. A Water-type foundation is not the only option, but it does enable Pyukumuku to be turned into an offensive resource, which can be a significant factor. Fighting-type as I said is another good one, and Electric-type as well to check against other prominent Standard format dominators—Darkrai-EX and Yveltal-EX.
 
ReapThaWhirlwind said:
I did suggest Tauros-GX in this strategy, and would probably split 2 of them between a 3-2 Pidgeot/M Pidgot line.
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Thinking this bit was addressed specifically to me, as well it should be because I did miss you mentioning Tauros-GX. Sorry about that.
 
Not a problem. I am currently questioning it though now over Jolteon-EX, which seems like it would boast some immense potential in the Standard format with the dominance of Basic Pokémon Darkrai, Yveltal, Volcanion, etc. If running Ninja Boy, it wouldn't hurt to tech a single copy, but one would be looking to run at least 2 copies of Jolteon-EX to establish some reliable consistency for it. Jolteon-EX also work as an amazing Out-Fighter behind Pyukumuku, as it enables Jolteon to fully energize from the Bench, and then swing in with [Flash Ray] and put the preventive lock on. {Stand In} Zoroark is another option I had pondered about last night for this deck. Seems like it could boast some immense potential against Volcanion especially, and any other deck that loads the Bench (not sure which those are). M Pidgeot dunks on Garbodor, so I would consider that already being significantly checked.
 
I feel Pidgeot is one of those Pokemon you have to go all or nothing with, if you're running the mega because if you're running other things, you might be better off running other things. Someone told me I should try it with Jolteon and Glaceon EX but I would be better off playing Jolteon and Glaceon EX.
 
Was a thought myself, but I honestly think you'd be better off with one or the other, because the deck structure begins to get grossly adulterated (and out of proportion) the moment you add the Glaceon-EX to the mix alongside Tauros-GX, Pidegot/M Pidgeot-EX, and Jolteon-EX. Glaceon is very much a tech card in the same avenue as Enhanced Hammer. It can come in handy, and it can become a liability, so your best strategic planning is going to involve selective numbers that keep it from becoming too much of a liability. When I run Enhanced Hammer, I prefer to run a single pair, but have at times included just a single tech to some great success.

Glaceon would be in the same suite as this. I would suggest a single tech, and ponder the potential to tech just a single copy between all three, if the deck structure was adapted to provide natural selection among them. This would mean including Pokémon Fan Club, which was a concept I began pondering at the start, but wasn't necessary to the deck structure between just Pidgeot/M Pidgeot, Tauros, and Pyukumuku. You're better off running the hard disruption suite—and then bridging off a consistency factor instead.

What are your thoughts on the addition of {Stand In} Zoroark? It could be a much more effective card to run in place of Glaceon-EX. Don't forget you have Pyukumuku & Bursting Balloon to handle tough single prize Basic and Evolution cards. The barricade they create can be crushing against cards like Solgaleo—as well as Volcanion. It's a tactical exchange factor. You're exchanging a Prize card for a potential Prize card in a self-Knock Out (piece for piece). But against a powerful Swarmer deck, the exchange is offset as they're losing far more than just that, they're also losing all the energy and resources burned up to mobilize that Swarmer card. This is going to be a very effective strategy so long as you can keep cards like Lysandre out of their hand (with Judge and N), or strip them from their hand before they can use them (with Delinquent).

Do you see what I mean?
 
I don't understand the strategy. If Pidgeot gets hit, you're almost always going to want to Max Potion+Mirror Move right away. If it doesn't get hit, you're going to want it to get hit. If you choose to retreat into Pyukumuku instead, your Pidgeot isn't getting hit. They can set up as much as they want and pass until they can OHKO Pidgeot EX and you run out of Bursting Balloons. You need something that can threaten a lot of damage setting up behind Pyukumuku, but why are you running Pidgeot EX then?
 
The strategy involved including Pyukumuku as a counter against particular Swarmer and Slugger decks, which can enable M Pidgeot to set up from the bench and more effectively pick the opponent apart. This is coupled with Bursting Balloon, Fighting Fury Belt, Tauros-GX, and Ninja Boy to enable some greater tactical operations. It further involves bridging off the disruption of Judge and Delinquent to keep important resources like Max Elixir and Lysandre out of their hand. This aims to have one of two effects. It either locks them up for more time than they can afford, and enables M Pidgeot to swing out and pick them apart—or it forces them to desperately press forward and smash themselves against the rocks with Pyukumuku/Bursting Ballon/Tauros-GX/or [Mirror Move]. It furthermore hopes hopes to prevent them from disrupting the Out-Fighter setup, with a play that can involve drawing out Pidgeot before it's ready and One-Hit KO'ing it.
 
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