Pokemon of the Week - #19: Landorus

[Professor Palutena]

Note: All New PotWs will be posted in this thread. There will no longer be separate threads for each week.

History

Spoiler: #9-14 - BW2-on

• #1 Tyranitar
• #2 Gengar
• #3 Dragonite
• #4 Tornadus
• #5 Reuniclus
• #6 Gliscor
• #7 Volcarona
• #8 Darmanitan
• #9 Mamoswine
• #10 Jirachi
• #11 Tornadus-T
• #12 Amoonguss
• #13 Keldeo
• #14: Kyurem
• Breloom: Posts 1-8 of this thread

Post History (BW2 on) (if you'e lazy, you'll like these)

Spoiler: Week #9 - Mamoswine

Whatever Mamoswine can do in OU, I feel it can do just as much, if not more in Ubers. In a meta filled with even more dragons, dual STAB and a Life Orb (or a Choice Band) are all it needs to wreck a lot of the offensive and even defensive threats in the meta. But no matter what tier you use it in, I think Mamoswine can do very well with a limited but effective movepool. I loved using Mamo in Gen 4, and it was actually on the first competitive team I ever made. With so many new tools, I think Mamoswine will have a comfortable spot as a powerhouse after BW2 is released.

Mamoswine is a boss, there is no doubt about it. Aside from Scizor, it's probably the best revenge-killer in the game, with Supereffective priority moves moves able to hit Latios, Latias, Salamence, Dragonite, Haxorus, Virizion, Celebi, Breloom, Tornadus(-T), Thundurus-T, and Landorus(-T). Not only this, but with a Choice Scarf equipped, Mamoswine can also effectively outspeed and KO more threats with Superpower and Earthquake. The meta just released 3 new Flying-types, which has made the metagame heaven for mamoswine. It might die out a bit once the genies die out is usage (lol), but until then mamoswine is just goingt o sit there and pwn the metagame.

With, an incredibly high Attack and decent speed mamoswine could be an absolute monster if not handled properly. Their are few pokemon that can switch in to Mamo seeing he has Superpower now. He use to be my SR Lead in 4th Gen on every team, but now he is on my teams for a powerful purpose. I find Mamoswine most effective in Rain/Sun teams. Hitting like a truck can really hurts teams with sand seeing it can take out both sand users with little effort. Ice isn't a very good type, but now if someone had to pick a type to go along with it Ground is a top choice. Thick Fat makes this guy an even better asset to your team taking ice/fire type moves a bit better. My #1 thing I like about him is his speed, it's not slow at all which allows it to hit very hard, ice shard enhances that ability even more. Therefore, Mamoswine is either 2nd best or The best revenge killer in the game and is feared by many and counter by few.

Motto for Mamo: ( I'm doing this now each week )

'' Feared by many , countered by few. ''

- R-C

Unfortunately, Scizor still dents this monster with priority BP, and Mamoswine only hits it for neutral damage with Superpower. However, Mamoswine doesn't have too many other counters, and with priority Ice Shard, Thick Fat, and Stealth Rock, it has a lot of nifty tools that make it a nice Pokemon to use in the OU meta game. Also, a bunch of weaknesses including Water, Fire, Fighting, and Grass makes it vulnerable to Rain and Sun teams. However, I see a lot of potential for it.

Ugh silly me. I think I was trying to say that no Pokemon is perfect, though Mamoswine does have a lot of useful tools that make it a good contender for the OU meta game. I still see a lot of problems preventing it from topping the usage boards, but I suppose it does have a nice chance to get high up there.

Spoiler: Week #10: Jirachi

He's OK. I guess my favourite sets are offensive Superachi lures or the Drizzle sweeper. I think Choice Scarf is a bit of a gross set because of how easy it is to punish any of Jirachi's locked physical attacks (apart from U-turn obviously), so whenever I see an opponent with CS Jirachi, a large part of the battle becomes "How can I exploit this...?"

As an aside, he's a terrible answer to Thunderbro.

He is a pretty bad answer to Thunderbro. The only one to hope to take a Thunder are the rain sweeper and Sp. Defensive versions, the former of which needs one boost to not be 2HKO while both are put at risk of being OHKO'd by a +2 Thunder.

He is a reliable counter to Tornadus which few Pokemon can do. Most other Steel-types lack a neutrality to Fighting-type and the ones that do have bad special defense (see: Skarmory, Scizor).

I've never had a problem with my Jirachi against Thunderbro, but 90% of the Thundurus that I've played have been Scarf'd, so that probably has something to do with it.

He's also the best counter I've found to Tornadus-T though. Neutrality to Superpower is awesome, as is the resistance to Hidden Power Ice. Tyranitar has to dodge Focus Blast, or somehow survive a Superpower, while most Steel-types lack the special defense to take repeated Hurricanes.

I'm using a Therian Rain Team to test out everything new (Keldeo included), and a Jirachi found its way onto the team, as a way to screw Amoonguss, Slowbro, and that other stall trash we use nowadays, and it also is my tank against Specs Latios and opposing Tornadus-T. I must say, SubCM Jirachi is a force in this metagame, countering the aforementioned things like they were nothing. Amoonguss can't do anything to it when behind a Sub, and thank goodness, because the rest of the team seems to have problems (I save Tornadus-T for other things). SDef Jirachi is also good, being a Wisher and place to fit SR or Uturn on for hazards/momentum. I just prefer SubCM for that bit of sweeping potential Specs Keldeo enjoys being paired up with.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Water Pulse / Psychic

I use Psychic sometimes to actually do damage to the Amoonguss I set up on, and with that ridiculous SDef drop chance, why not? It may have only decent coverage (Thundurus-T and Keldeo), but I have had success. I already have two Water attackers on the team already too.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 212 SDef / 44 Spe
Nature: Careful / Sassy (If Thunder; shift Speed EVs to SDef too)
- Iron Head
- Body Slam / Thunder
- Wish
- Stealth Rock / U-turn / Protect

As you can see, Rain SDef Jirachi is fairly flexible. 44 Speed EVs is to speed creep everything on the 244 Spe number and possibly cripple them with Body Slam/Thunder (Gliscor would hate you if they didn't use Protect).

~AoH

There are two sets for Jirachi that I regularly use since I don't use weather teams. The first is the standard paraflinch set with Wish. This works well when paired with slow, but powerful Pokemon. Getting the paralysis is key because then the team doesn't need to worry about if it will get the first strike. With the sets popularity, it also isn't wise to stay in against Jirachi if you can't at least 2HKO it.

The other main set I run is a Calm Mind set that has enough Speed to outpace Breloom, and strong enough to survive nearly any unboosted supereffective hit. Wish is quite useful to aide in setting itself up and to assist its team mates. Psychic ensures a KO against Breloom while Thunderbolt can strike many foes for at least neutral damage and the 20% paralysis chance is helpful.

Spoiler: Week #11 - Tornadus-T

Try Choice Specs with Sleep Talk. You rarely ever need the fourth move, HP Ice, since the only thing that's useful for is Landorus and bulky Dragonite. Sleep Talk makes Tornadus-T one of the best answers to Amoonguss and Breloom outside of maybe Xatu and Skarmory, the former probably gets Stolen by Bullet Seed while the latter of which needs something to get Spored first. Even if you mispredict and get hit five times by Bullet Seed, Regenerator can always save you provided you keep SR off the field.

I've had games where Sleep Talk screws me over (ex: selecting Focus Blast two times in a row), but having a useful answer to SD Breloom and Amoonguss is too good to turn down.

On a related note, keep SR off the field at all cost. Tornadus, especially the LO versions, perform the best with SR gone. It also helps versus Mamoswine since Ice Shard will never kill a full health Tornadus-T. Plus, only gaining 8% of your health upon switching out (or loosing 2% if you're a LO set) is not as good as getting back 33%.

yes it is my fav pokemon now shutup lol

I like a Choice Scarf set with U-Turn. It allows me to use mixed attacks, as well as letting me outspeed everything that isn't scarfed. You can just switch in, and while they put in something to take a hurricane, you U-Turn into whatever can take what they're gonna throw at you. It wreaks havoc on their predictions, all while being immune to SR damage, as well as being able to switch in on special attacks from psychics and the like and U-Turn into Keldeo/Jellicent/Whatever to take their HP Ice.

why would you run scarf tornadus when it already has 121 speed

all while being immune to SR damage

what, you're technically not immune

as well as being able to switch in on special attacks from psychics and the like and U-Turn into Keldeo/Jellicent/Whatever to take their HP Ice.

... what

I told you, just to outspeed EVERYTHING. The speed gets so redundantly huge. It makes Terrakion not wreck you after a Rock Polish or 2.

... what. Not only does +2 Terrakion outspeed, Tornadus also fails to OHKO with Focus Blast. Thundurus-T isn't even OHKO'd by HP Ice after SR.

I hope you realize how redundant and weak Scarf Tornadus is.

It may be redundant, but it's saved me in many a BW2 match when they put all their speed investment in one pokemon and I just take it out.

I saw this guy on Smogon get to around #15 on PS with a Sleep Talk/Hurricane Tornadus-T. Yep, just two moves. To me, that's really ingenius. Mono-Flying is really good offensively. Most of the time with Tornadus, all you do is spam Hurricane, so might as well guarantee it with a two attack set.

And a Scarf set is absolutely redundant and is bad. It's like running Scarf Deoxys-S. You have priority attacks for a reason, so use them.

I still like having U-Turn on my Sleep Talk Tornadus just for offensive momentum. Even slapping a Breloom with a Focus Blast will OHKO, and if Sleep Talk picks U-Turn you can switch in to Jolly Mamoswine (since Jolly Breloom is a troll) or Amoonguss to take on Breloom.

I think it just took a while for people to understand why having a bulkier Tornadus would be a good thing. Like you said, that speed, along with Regenerator meant that Tornadus-T will be slapping around anything it wants to with Hurricane, provided you make smart switches. And even with limited offensive options, it can still run a variety of sets, like Specs or the Sleep Talk one mentioned earlier. In short, it's my personal favorite of the new forms, both competitively and aesthetically. I mean look at it. It's the "Come at me Bro" Pokemon.

I tried a 252 HP / 252 Speed Tornadus with Amoonguss and Slowbro one time just to get the most out of its ability and defences. I found it okay as a defensive pivot; the lack of power and so-so defenses made me wish for more. It does screw with defensive teams if you can keep SR off the field. I even ran it with Taunt to do so since it can take a Gyro Ball from Ferrothorn if it needs to. Still, the drop in power was noticeable and I felt it to be a terrible Tornadus set.

Just out of curiosity, why aren't you running Superpower? It's a nuke against any Tyranitar wanting to come in and sponge your Hurricane, while also changing the weather (and its alright against Blissey/Chansey).

I really don't like it on Specs Tornadus since it has a very weird feel, especially with Sleep Talk. Focus Blast is statistically more powerful than Superpower when you factor everything in (it even has a higher chance to beat bulky Tyranitar). Hitting Breloom with a 33% chance of Superpower is a death sentence; if the fool didn't fall for the bluff and went for the SD, you're screwed if SR was on the field. Another reason I run Focus Blast is that I feel a bit silly only running one special move on a Specs attacker.

Hell to the yes to Superpower on LO Tornadus-T though. I have yet to run Focus Blast on that set yet since I prefer consistancy and wallbreaking ability over more damage and no need for naive nature.

I've only been using LO Tornadus, so I'm so used to selecting Superpower in the teambuilder all the time. Granted, I still find Sleep Talk useful on the LO set, but sometimes I wish I had Taunt.

I've never used Specs Tornadus-T yet, but you're making it sound awesome.

Heh, Tornadus-T was that Pokemon that I thought was going to be really bad and nearly unplayable but its so fantastic. Flying STAB is annoy to deal with (it only has something like 7-9 resist in the entire OU tier o.o) and some of those have to have a dedicated set to battle against it such as a 0/0 Heatran isn't going to last long switching into those Hurricanes. It has just enough moves to get by as well: the mentioned Hurricane, Hidden Power, U-Turn, Focus Miss, Superpower, Sleep Talk, and Taunt. One of the best pivots and revengers in the game and certainly one of the most annoying to deal with if Stealth Rocks isn't up.

I know some people like to run Heat Wave on the Specs set just to eliminate its usual checks and counters. If you can keep rain out of play to lure these guys in, they will all be swiftly 2HKO to even being OHKO'd. Iirc, Ferrothorn and Scizor are even OHKO'd by it in rain.

If you really look at its movepool, you see a lot of neat options. Even Tailwind + U-Turn is nifty for passing a teamate a free Agility for two turns. With Regenerator Tornadus can, theoretically, do this over and over again, a major boon for offensive teams. Regenerator is the main reason why you would run this combo over normal Tornadus (although a priority Tailwind for a needed revenge kill is still a pro).

It gets Knock Off which is great for beating down Chansey. Like I said in my first post, you can find room for all of thes moves (Heat Wave, Tailwind, Taunt, Rain Dance, Knock Off, HP Ice, etc) in that fourth slot since you never need more than Hurricane, Fighting-type move, and U-turn.

Specs Heat Wave in rain guarantees a KO on CB Scizor, with LO having a 93.75% chance to get the KO, doing 99% minimum.

On Ferro though, both of them 2HKO, with LO having a chance for a 3HKO.

CB Scizor Bullet Punch has a small chance (12.5%) to KO Tornadus-T after Stealth Rock damage, so staying in on a Scizor is pretty risky.

121 Speed is insane! 110 SpA with this speed is pretty nice balance along with high base power moves. I haven't used it yet, but from the sounds of these posts, it must be pretty good.

The bulk part of Tornadus is that it got +20 in its defenses while Landorus got +20 in Attack and Thundurus +20 Sp. Attack. The statement made about it focusing on defenses refers to it getting defense boosts.

I don't really get Heat Wave. Focus Blast is stronger in Rain for Ferro and Hurricane more or less OHKOs Scizor.

This guy is such a pest for offensive teams to handle due to a lack of robust Flying resists to switch in. Jolteon is looking mighty fine right about now, as well as scarf Thundy. Jirachi is an OK choice but taking two Hurricanes just to try an attack is painful man. And of course it's hard to wear down.

Really good mon, not sure why people didn't think it was gonna be good at first.. Too bad it's Rain only.

Tornadus + Dugtrio is a pretty good combo. It pressures you opponent to not bring in their flying resists lest you U-turn and kill then with Dugtrio. As you obviously have Politoed it aids the weather war too. A really brutal combo in the right hands.

The point of Heat Wave is to lure in Jirachi and Metagross and eliminate them. I myself have never run it because you have to keep rain off the field to do it. When that's the case you're better off having rain on the field and beating them around with Hurricane + U-turn.

Yeah, that's what I mean. You have to work against rain if you want to use Heat Wave, and Tornadus-T requires rain to use its primary spam move. To be honest most of the time you're wearing things down with Hurricane anyway, so there's no need to be fancy.

Tornadus-T has quickly developed into being my favourite pokemon in the current OU metagame.
Personally, I am running the LO set consisting of Hurricane/Superpower/HP Ice/U-Turn

I was just wandering.. would it be a good idea to try a regenerator core?
So this would include Amoonguss/Tornadus-T/Slowbro
I think it could work quite nicely

I run Expert belt over Life Orb to bluff the Specs and nail Blissey/Tyranitar with Superpower.

I run Expert belt over Life Orb to bluff the Specs and nail Blissey/Tyranitar with Superpower.

How much damage does that roughly do to a Chansey or Blissey?
My team has been struggling with them quite a bit :l

Blissey is 2HKO'd iirc, but Chansey isn't even 3HKO'd and she can just use Softboiled.

Expert Belt isn't a good item for Tornadus. You just lose more to Chancey, Jirachi, Rotom-W, Metagross, Skarmory, and pick up a new list of counters like Gastrodon (miss out on the 2HKO now). You also give stuff like Thundurus and Jolteon easier switchins. Tornadus just lacks the coverage (in terms of SE moves) to make use of Expert Belt and it needs all the power it can get. You're not even catching anything off-guard like EBelt Landorus or Thundurus.

What about running Hidden Power Ground on Tornadus-T? Jirachi and Heatran are two really common switchins to Tornadus, and while Specs HP Ground is a 3HKO on Specially Defensive Jirachi, it still does enough to many it weary of absorbing Hurricanes later.

Expert Belt isn't a good item for Tornadus. You just lose more to Chancey, Jirachi, Rotom-W, Metagross, Skarmory, and pick up a new list of counters like Gastrodon (miss out on the 2HKO now). You also give stuff like Thundurus and Jolteon easier switchins. Tornadus just lacks the coverage (in terms of SE moves) to make use of Expert Belt and it needs all the power it can get. You're not even catching anything off-guard like EBelt Landorus or Thundurus.

Umm, I beg to differ. Tyranitar and Blissey are 2 very common switch-ins to Tornadus, and they both get nailed by a Superpower when they're expecting a Choice set.

Umm, I beg to differ. Tyranitar and Blissey are 2 very common switch-ins to Tornadus, and they both get nailed by a Superpower when they're expecting a Choice set.

NO. NO. NO. If people are switching a Tyranitar in on Tornadus then slap them. The risk of Focus Blast and U-Turn is too great. Even if Hurricane only does 20% to MixTar, it can't do much to Tornadus. Tornadus doesn't even mind Pursuit because of Regenerator (only the CB ones will hurt). The only reason I would ever switchin Tyranitar in on Tornadus is if that's all I have left to take the Hurricanes, an unlikely situation since Heatran, Rotom-W, and Jirachi are all great in sand.

What does Expert Belt have over Life Orb? With Life Orb you scare away all of these things you're trying to lure in, actually beat Chansey, fare a better chance against Jirachi and Rotom, and get the boost on ALL YOUR MOVES. Okay, so you lured in and beat Tyranitar and Blissey. Now what? You're not going to be spamming those late-game Hurricanes as well as LO or Specs. You still lose to Jirachi and Rotom-W, only harder now. You pick up a ton of new counters who can take your Hurricanes. It's just not worth it.

Just to give you an idea of the power drop, CB Scizor takes 63.3% - 74.6% from Expert Belt Hurricane and 82.2% - 97.1% from LO. LO has a high chance to OHKO after SR whereas EBelt will never OHKO after SR. Won't even OHKO after two rounds of SR which is a shame.

Tornadus - T is one of those Pokemon that will always be an annoyance to a team, no matter what type. Tornadus originally had a few problems, SR would constantly hammer it, Starmie could preform a solid check to it, and other fast stuff could also smash it. Tornadus - T is now one of the fastest sweepers in OU. Regeneration helps it with Stealth Rock, although not eliminated it, it does stop it from taking that damage over and over again with no direct healing. It is an absolute terror to offensive teams, as nothing can out speed it bar a scarfer. There really is no safe switch in besides Jirachi on an offensive team ( Rotom-W too but it takes quite a bit from Focus Blast and getting slammed by Hurricane ). Stall can handle it more safely, but it's immunity to most hazards and Regeneration helping it in healing means it is hard to gain residual damage.

tornadus t will probably stay a top tier pokemon for a long time, but it will not be banned. it is still frail enough that it cannot safely switch into almost any offensive threat on a neutral move.

as nothing can out speed it bar a scarfer.

[animate]135[/animate]

I do really like this Pokemon both aesthetically and competitively, and it was a great candidate for Pokemon of the Week. I think the biggest improvements from the regular forme was gaining Regenerator and getting a Base Speed stat boost. With 121 Speed, Jolteon is really one of the only Pokemon that can out speed other than Choiced users, and Regenerator is great to relieve damage from LO and Stealth Rock. I do think the Choice Specs set is very good, although the LO set is just as reliable. I just enjoy the extra SpA boost from the Specs, really.

However, I eventually think the hype for this thing will die down, considering it functions well on Rain teams and well....it doesn't really fit very well anywhere else. SR weakness is still a problem, even with Regenerator, and it is rather frail and priority-weak. Despite this, Tornadus-T will still be on the top of the usage board for a little while. I'm glad this Pokemon was made, because it has a nice balance between decent offensive stats and sub-par defensive stats.

Spoiler: Week #12: Amoonguss

OH MY GOD

Amoonguss is fantastic, that is a fact. If you need something to counter bulky waters, Thunderus-T, Keldeo, or grass types in general. I've been using Amoonguss on my rain stall team as of recent, and it just fits so well. Normally Rain Stall would have huge trouble with these newly introduced threats, but Amoonguss can just support the team so well.

Amooguss in Rain Stall is absolutely amazing ! It's a playstyle I have grown attached too and will never leave. It's so much fun to troll thundurus-t and friends. It's just a great cinderella story and I am happy he is usable.

- R-C

What spread are you using on Amoonguss? I've always found mine getting 2HKOed by Thundurus-T's HP Ice.

Also, I always run 28 Special Attack EVs to beat SubCMKeldeo. Giga Drain will break +2 Keldeo's Subs with just 28 EVs.

I've never used Amoongus or ever thought of it. I like its cry though it's funny...and I'll start spamming it...

---

What spread are you using on Amoonguss? I've always found mine getting 2HKOed by Thundurus-T's HP Ice.

Also, I always run 28 Special Attack EVs to beat SubCMKeldeo. Giga Drain will break +2 Keldeo's Subs with just 28 EVs.

I would say 252 hp, then split EVs between defences, or make it more physically/specially defensive by putting more EVs in one of those stats. Then calm/bold nature.

---

Amoonguss w/ Calm ( - Atk , + Sp.D )
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.D


iirc it doesn't get 2 Shotted by Thunder-T.

- R-C

Vs Scarf it gets 3HKO'd at worst provided max damage rolls and SR. Min damage rolls are around a 4HKO.

31.9% - 38%

LO is a bit more nasty and has a chance to 2HKO after SR.

41.7% - 49.1%

I don't understand Amoonguss. It looks absolutely terrible on paper. I mean face it, 114/70/80 Defenses aren't all that great. Its special attack is decent, but after you're done putting EVs into HP and Special Defense, there's none left to make it hit hard. Regenerator and Spore are cool niches in OU play, though, and it has great defensive typing. I'm going to equate Amoonguss to Gastrodon in the transition over from DPP to BW. It looks terribad on paper, but once you actually use it, I guess it does pretty good.

114/70/80 is amazing. You're really downplaying how much bulk that is.

I honestly don't see how he is so amazing. I've tried using him on a lot of teams, and he just doesn't seem to fit in. People have explained that he's used for a Keldeo counter, but I never see them on PO, or as a Drizzle counter, but I just don't understand it. Like at all.

First off, I love the banner. Thanks safariblade!

Amoonguss is a great anti-meta Pokemon, and I think Bippa's description of it going from zero to hero is spot-on, although Amoonguss was great in NU before it got Regenerator. It is very bulky and has just enough SpA to put dents in Keldeo and the like. Stun Spore is actually a good move for Amoonguss, I've been finding, as it opens up room for slower sweepers to take the win. Amoonguss is so good, it seems, that PDC has gone crazy and has asked everyone to use it.

I think one of the most reliable counters to the mushroom is Tornadus-T, because unfortunately, Hurricane in rain hits so hard, while Amoonguss has a tough time hitting back, unless it packs HP Ice. I'm not sure how much Hurricane does to it, but I'm guessing it's a guaranteed 2HKO w/ SR or something. This is just a guess, though. However, Amoonguss usually has team support to get rid of any threat that could take it out, so then Amoonguss gets its chance to shine.

Also, can anyone explain the role Amoonguss plays in Rain stall?

Rain stall is easily threatened by Thundurus-T and Keldeo, but Amoonguss can handle all variants of Keldeo, and most Thundurus.

I can't exactly say how good Amoonguss is because I've never used it/played against it, but I can say that it looks like Substitute or Guts Pokemon will be on the rise (my Falcon Pawnch team shouldn't have too much of a problem d: ) to counter this threat.

If you want to break Keldeo's Subs while also maxing out your defensive investments, Amoonguss can learn Seed Bomb, which, even with no investment, will break all of Keldeo's Subs.

Amoonguss is a defensive core and glue sort, almost like a Tangrowth meets Toxic Orb Breloom. Use with Slowbro and possibly Heatran, and you have a very solid core there. Two or three statuses, SR, spinblock (If Jellicent over Slowbro), FWG, instant recovery on 2 of 3, etc. You will see Amoonguss move up to OU guaranteed.

~AiH

I'm really liking this guy when it comes to taking down rain teams. Unless Starmie packs Psyshock, it has no way of getting around SpD Amoonguss. It also walls Keldeo to heck and back, while also doing fairly well against Thundurus-T. The only new threats it can't handle are Tornadus and some Meloetta.

I think we can all agree that this Pokemon went generally unnoticed for a very long time, and it's surprising to see just how popular it's become, being a huge defensive threat in BW2, especially with all of the Thundurus-T rain teams rampaging around.

---

Spoiler: Week #13 - Twilight Sparle... err, Keldeo

I use a Keldeo on most of my teams nowadays. It's just so powerful no matter what set it uses, be it CM, Specs, SubCM, or SubSalac even (love that last one). My most used would have to be SubSalac though, as it can get through its faster checks all day, somewhat like a more powerful SubPetaya Empoleon.

Keldeo @ Salac Berry
Timid
252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Justified
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Secret Sword

It may be walled cold by Jellicent, but I also have a Thundurus-T most of the time. This set plays like a SubCM mostly, but when it gets to 25%, it becomes a Scarfer with a potential CM boost that can change moves. Can you say Water Volcarona? Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T are OHKOed in the rain by Hydro Pump while being simultaneously outsped. You may use Surf if you favor accuracy too. There are 4 SDef EVs instead of HP because it can activate the Salac Berry after 3 Subs instead of 4 that way.

I advise that every team pack a counter/faster check to this Pokemon, especially if you don't run Rain, where Keldeo's counters/checks thrive. Celebi, Latias, and Slowking appear to be the best defensive counters, with the latter two having Psyshock to OHKO it with. NP Celebi is great too, as a +2 Leaf Storm overpowers about any Keldeo. Scarf Thundurus-T and Tornadus-T are threats, but they must watch out for the monster I described above.

tl;dr- Keldeo is a monster the equivalent of Terrakion, where every team must reliably beat it, or it will beat you.

~AoH

Another reason why Slowking is pretty sweet in this metagame

I haven't used Keldeo yet, but from what I've seen it really struggles in this metagame, with Bulky Waters, Lati@s, powerful Electric types, and Amoonguss running around. It also doesn't have the best speed tier, not good but not bad. It does catch unprepared teams, but with the current meta Keldeo is going to be having a tough time.

I've been using Keldeo for a long time now, having topped DW OU with it. The Sub Salac idea is pretty bad, AoH, because you are not only completely vulnerable to Jellicent, but new threats open up such as Gyarados, Dragonite, Amoongus, Latias, Celebi, etc etc etc. I know the 3rd slot has it's ups and downs depending on the hidden power you choose, but this is the set I run:

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Timid
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Justified
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power Electric/Ghost/Ice

Attention: You (the Viewer) Might Get Offended, If You Do, Tell Me So I Can Send You A Buthurt Form To Fill Out, That Is All!​

I'm sorry, but I find Keldeo too lolsy to use, with common cores that have Amoonguss, as well as Slowbro, not to mention the common Thundurus-T and Tornadus-T, I really don't care for using it. Not only that, but Latias can easily set up in its face, unless it has HP Ghost, even then, Latias still has the CM boost, so gg. /is ready for the people to flame me and tell me how wrong I am


- Not trying to troll or anything, but I saw how Cooltrainer Alan got ganged up on and figured I'd say something ahead of time.

I'm sorry, but I find Keldeo too lolsy to use, with common cores that have Amoonguss, as well as Slowbro, not to mention the common Thundurus-T and Tornadus-T, I really don't care for using it. Not only that, but Latias can easily set up in its face, unless it has HP Ghost, even then, Latias still has the CM boost, so gg. /is ready for the people to flame me and tell me how wrong I am

Every Pokemon has counters. Keldeo's are common. That doesn't mean Keldeo is bad. It just means you need to beat those counters (oh look, Tyranitar eats Latias for breakfast. Oh look, Latias beats the Therians. Bam, offensive core).

Look at Tyranitar, and all it has problems with. It struggles against rain offense, its got Scizor who is the most used Pokemon. Its got OU's load of Fighting-types (Virizion, Lucario, Terrakion, Conkeldurr, etc etc). Then look at Tyranitar's usage. It's number 3. Even if your easily countered, it doesn't mean your bad.

That being said, I do agree that it is rather easy to prepare for. But that's good. Because once it sets up, you aren't stopping it without Psyshock Latias or Starmie.

Every Pokemon has counters. Keldeo's are common. That doesn't mean Keldeo is bad. It just means you need to beat those counters (oh look, Tyranitar eats Latias for breakfast. Oh look, Latias beats the Therians. Bam, offensive core).

Look at Tyranitar, and all it has problems with. It struggles against rain offense, its got Scizor who is the most used Pokemon. Its got OU's load of Fighting-types (Virizion, Lucario, Terrakion, Conkeldurr, etc etc). Then look at Tyranitar's usage. It's number 3. Even if your easily countered, it doesn't mean your bad.

That being said, I do agree that it is rather easy to prepare for. But that's good. Because once it sets up, you aren't stopping it without Psyshock Latias or Starmie.

Good point, albeit Keldeo still has several walls - quite a few of which gives your opponent a free turn

You're still giving the same argument - if you have other teammates that can deal with things that wall Keldeo, then you shouldn't worry. That's like saying Scizor is bad because of Jellicent.

Keldeo is a great Pokemon, and gives players another excellent reason to use rain. That Hydro Pump just tears through almost anything that switches in on it, which make Keldeo counters a necessity to any team. In short, it's one of those Pokemon that can easily sweep through your team if you're not prepared for it.

I've been using Keldeo for a long time now, having topped DW OU with it. The Sub Salac idea is pretty bad, AoH, because you are not only completely vulnerable to Jellicent, but new threats open up such as Gyarados, Dragonite, Amoongus, Latias, Celebi, etc etc etc.

It runs like SubCM, which is fairly popular on Smogon RMTs lately. Just add the fact that it can acquire a Scarf boost. (Also, look in the Creative Movesets thread on Smogon for more info on that set.)
~AoH

Spoiler: Week #14 - Kyurem

Ahhh yes.... my faithful draconian friend...
Kyurem is my favourite of all 649 pokemon, simply because of the type, and effectivness of the moves it can use. As of B/W2 fusing it with Reshiram and Zekrom (Zek being another favourite) allows me to unleash hell upon the few who challenge me anymore. But Kyurem does have weaknesses, and my own icy steed has fallen to them, Magneton and Flash Cannon being the prominent one, but on the rare instance I don't end up fighting a steel type, I fight either Reshiram and Zekrom, both being easy pray.... Though the only counter I ever needed for Kyurem was either my event Darkrai, (Dark Void, Nightmare, Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball) to stall it and wittle away the HP and Sp. Def. or Samurott, hit hard with Megahorn if Darkrai goes down. I can say it is a lot more satisfying to utilise Kyurem (and Haxorus in a tag team is heavenly) than to beat one down. And I'll be saving Hail for Vanilluxe, for obvious reasons.

I reworked my old Hail team with new BW2 stuff (thanks gameFreak for Poison Heal Roost Gliscor) and Kyurem was one of the Pokemon that got a boost. I like the SubRoost set but I kind of liked the coverage of Sub + 3 Attacks. It is still a beast when it gets a Sub up. One thing I must say that Earth Power sucks. Focus Blast hits most Steels harder except Jirachi (Magnezone and Heatran still get destroyed by Focus Blast especially if Heatran trolls you with an Air Balloon) and makes more damage to stuff that resist Blizzard with Tentacruel being the only exception that I can think of. Stuff like Scizor won't like taking 2 Focus Blasts so if Kyurem get multiple chances to set up a Sub, which isn't hard as it has good bulk) it can remove its counter and proceed to sweep the team.

I've always used Choice Scarf Kyurem, whether it be Hail or not, because 420 Speed is just great in the OU meta game. I agree that Focus Blast is better than Earth Power, but the extra PP and possible lowering of SpD is tempting. Also, a 100% accurate Blizzard is fun to abuse in Hail because few can switch in on it. Unfortunately Kyurem has a lot of glaring weaknesses in Rock and Fighting (which are arguably the most common offensive types in the meta game). But whatever, Kyurem still rocks, and I used it before it got Roost and Earth Power. : )

I've been using the Mixed Kyurem set, consisting of Draco Meteor, Outrage, Earth Power and Blizzard on my hail team.
I think it works quite well.
After seeing a Draco Meteor or two, my opponents would try and switch in something to set up on the switch, only to be smashed by a STAB boosted Outrage.
It's weaknesses and less than stellar speed are the main hindrances that come with using the mixed set

Intros (Weeks 15 and onward)

Spoiler: Week #15 - Breloom

Breloom is probably the straight up most annoying Pokemon to play against, even before Black and White 2. It began its carrier as the most offensive Spore user (not too hard to beat Parasect and Smeargle though), and it also had Mach Punch for some excellent priority off of 130 base attack. Spore really made it tough to counter, because your counter could be put to sleep at a moment's notice. Gen 4 was rather nice to Breloom. It gained an excellent ability in Poison Heal, essentially granting it double leftovers recovery each turn, as well as immunity to status. This new ability made Breloom a prime user of the SubSeed and SubPunch strategy. Breloom got a smaller buff through Seed Bomb, a physical grass move. We enter Gen.5 and Breloom gets even better! First of all, the new sleep mechanics made Breloom's Spore much more deadlier. Bulk Up Breloom entered the metagame as an excellent counter VoltTurn cores. The SubSeed and SubPunch sets still worked brilliantly. But Breloom gained a seemingly insurmountable foe in the form of Poison Heal Gliscor, who was immune to Spore and walled all but the Bulk Up set.

But then things changed with Black and White 2. You see, Technician Breloom (henceforth referred as Techniloom) was released and everyone started praising Breloom. Technician gave buffs to quite a few moves in Breloom's movepool, such as Bullet Seed, Low Sweep and, most importantly, Mach Punch!. Breloom's Mach Punch hits just as hard as Scizor's, but it hits more Pokemon for super-effective damage. Breloom's old ace in the hole, Spore, still remained with Techniloom essentially creating a near nightmare for any opponent.

How have you been using Breloom? Has Techniloom been on any of your teams? Or are you still using the old, but still perfectly usable, Poison Heal sets? What teammates do you run with Breloom? We're talking about mushrooms for a week guys, so let's have some fun.

 

[R-C]

RE: Pokemon of the Week #15 - Breloom

Reserved for Text Wall ( I want to type it in fully text box ).

- R-C

 

[doublenikesocks]

RE: Pokemon of the Week #15 - Breloom

I tried Breloom out, but he is just too frail and slow for me. The abundance of Gliscor in the meta game is too much for Breloom. So is the amount to Tornadus-T. They are both great checks/counters for Techniloom.

 

[PG24]

RE: Pokemon of the Week #15 - Breloom

How is Gliscor a threat when it can't take a a x5 Bullet Seed or even urt it outside of Acrobatics? Same with Tornadus-T who shouldn't even think about switching in unless it wants to risk a low Bullet Seed / no Jolly Low Sweep / lacks Sleep Talk / doesn't use Stone Edge on the switch.

 

[doublenikesocks]

RE: Pokemon of the Week #15 - Breloom

I said check. I didn't say counter, except for gliscor.

 

[Equinox]

RE: Pokemon of the Week #15 - Breloom

Gengar makes for a solid counter should the Sleep Clause already be active, not fearing Low Sweep, Mach Punch, Seed Bomb, Focus Punch, and (I think) Gengar doesn't fear Bullet Seed (as long as it's either +1 or unboosted, prefferably unboosted). All of which I mean if you plan on switching Gengar in against Breloom.

 

[Guts]

RE: Pokemon of the Week #15 - Breloom

Breloom's always been a great, albeit overlooked, Pokemon. It gets another amazing ability with Technician, and it's now another top-tier threat that teams need to prepare for. However, once you scout out the set, it should be pretty easy to deal with, if your team isn't wrecked by CB Mach Punch or even the classic SubPunch, both of which have done wonders for me in BW2. And it fits on almost any team, as a bonus. It's definitely a Pokemon that deserves some checking out, if you haven't done so already.

 

[NidoJosh]

RE: Pokemon of the Week #15 - Breloom

I had used Breloom for a while on a rain team. For me it's really just his low speed that annoys me about using him.
Sure if Mach Punch is neutral or super effective that's fine but the other attacks aren't really that good to shoot from his low speed due to his frailness.
If you can't OHKO then chances are he's toast from my experience :l

Aside from that, even if he can't last very long, that spore really does mess up a team with out a sleep talker

 

[Professor Palutena]

RE: Pokemon of the Week - #16: Scizor

Reviving this due to the new disclaimer I put in the OP. I'm in the process of moving all the posts over into here to serve as a hub post. Edit: Everything from #9 and onward should be in the OP. If you have any ideas for better organization, let me know outside of this thread.

But you guys don't want that, so let's talk about some Pokemon!

And what a better Pokemon to revive this thing with than something that's been top 5 OU since September 13, 2008. Scizor.

I'll be brutal here; if you don't know what Scizor does, you haven't played competitive play. You will very, very rarely go two matches without seeing a Scizor. It's such a good Pokemon and can fit on close to any team.

It does boast a tiny movepool, but it does have close to everything it wants. Dual STAB? Check. Amazing ability? Double check. Excellent defensive typing? Check. It does have lackluster speed, but Bullet Punch pretty much erases that problem. Swords Dance and Choice Band both contribute to making it an offensive threat everyone needs to prepare for. It's also one of the best ways to beat down opposing Latios, a quality I'm sure many desire.

So this week we're talking about Scizor. What's Scizor doing for your team? What have you been using to beat Scizor? are you running HP Ice to be Genesect's little bro?

 

[Guts]

RE: Pokemon of the Week - #16: Scizor

blame safari, HP Ice Scizor was his idea

Scizor's still good at what it does, namely putting huge chunks of damage into anything that switches into it. Swords Dance sets are a little less effective imo, but still, they're sets to be feared. Even with soooo many other offensive threats in the meta right now, Scizor is still one of the best Pokemon out there in terms of dealing raw damage.

And it's good to see this back, hopefully we can get official threads up and running again.

 

[Blui]

RE: Pokemon of the Week - #16: Scizor

I use my Raikou with Weather Ball to KO Scizor, Bullet punch only does about 25% damage each hit. Whereas Weather Ball in the SUn (I play Sun) OHKOs it.

Choice Band Scizor is the best kind of Scizor IMO, Super Power can get a OHKO on Heatran, yep, you thought Heatran was safe, didn't you?
I've never actually used Scizor in OU, my teams never needed it.

Nice to see some VG stuff up when I start playing

 

[Uralya]

RE: Pokemon of the Week - #16: Scizor

Honestly, I never see anything but 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef CB variants now. The 252 / 40 / 216 SD version is underrated, true that, but I've faced three or four in the past two months. I don't think anyone uses non-CB Scizor anymore. I guess I may be a small exception, as I love using Trapper and 3-Attacks Scizor a lot. My current team (aside from Radioactive, which I need feedback on) features the latter in tandem with SDef RestoChesto Rotom-W. They are a very versatile core.

Trapper:
Scizor @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Atk / 148 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Roost

It's on the Smogon database right now. 112 Atk EVs guarantees the Pursuit KO on Latios and BP KO on Gengar after SR (both). The rest maximize special bulk because what it traps is all specially based.

3-Attacks:
Scizor @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Roost

What makes this set so special is the fact that it can switch attacks and heal itself while preserving momentum. Even with LO recoil, it is much more durable than typical CB variants. 100 Spe outspeeds standard 0-Spe SDef Heatran, Attack is maximized, and 152 EVs go into HP to maximize its bulk. The leftover 4 goes to SDef so Scizor has an odd HP number.

Overall, Scizor is predictable but nonetheless godly effective. If you need a Terrakion, Ttar or Lati@s killer, leave it to this red bug (who bears a huge resemblance to Deadpool lol).

~AoH

 

[Professor Palutena]

RE: Pokemon of the Week - #17: Terrakion

PotW took a Christmas break, and then I ended up forgetting to put this up on Sunday.

Anyways, Week 17 is all about Terrakion.

[animate]terrakion[/animate]

This Pokemon needs to introduction. It's one of the most feared Pokemon in OU for numerous reasons, including the stat spread and offensive STAB combination. Every offensive Pokemon looks to Terrakion for inspiration, only wishing they could be as good as it. Terrakion's movepool may be very narrow, but you probably wouldn't want to do much outside of what it gets.

So let's talk about this fine musketeer. A Pokemon many consider close to broken, or the example perfect Pokemon. I think it goes without saying that Terrakion is going to continue to be OU for generations to come.

Discuss!

 

[Chaos Jackal]

RE: Pokemon of the Week - #17: Terrakion

Terrakion was the main Pokemon of one of the first Double-Triple Battle strategies to be introduced, Justified. Combining Terrakion with Whimsicott w/ Tailwind and Beat Up is still used, although it's outclassed by weather strategies.
Terrakion also has position in weather, though. In Sandstorm, its survivability allows it to beat a great number of enemies. Generally, whether Terrakion is Atk or Spd focused, it's a physical powerhouse, capable of sweeping through teams.
However, what always annoyed me is its movepool. A Terrakion's moveset is very predictable. This is its only real drawback for me.

 

[PMJ]

RE: Pokemon of the Week - #17: Terrakion

Terrakion has always been amazing because of its awesome offensive typing and pimp daddy stabs to go along with it. Now that Salac Berry has been released, the Substitute version has become more popular than ever, allowing it to ruin everyone late game. He may be pretty predictable, but when you have monstrous Attack, Swords Dance, and STAB Close Combat, you don't really need to do much else.

You know your spot in OU is cemented when you can stay there despite being weak to all hazards and three commonly used priority attacks.

 

[Professor Palutena]

RE: Pokemon of the Week - #18: Kyurem-B

Hey, so turns out I didn't forget this time.

Week 18

Kyurem-B is somewhat of a controversial subject in OU, due to sitting firmly in ubers from its release until its unbanning in Winter 2012. This Pokemon is certainly an offensive juggernaut, boasting the strongest Outrage in the game, which also having pretty great bulk (and good resistances on the special side), and the ability to go mixed. Yet this Pokemon is kept in check by several factors, such as Stealth Rock and a weakness to priority attacks (Mach Punch and Bullet Punch). Some people don't consider this enough of a weakness and that it should be sent back up into Ubers, and it's a reasonable arguement considering the stat numbers Kyurem-B has behind it.

So lets talk dragons this week. How have you been using Kyurem-B in OU? What have you been using to beat it?

 

[Chillarmy]

RE: Pokemon of the Week - #17: Kyurem-B

Oh wow, I didn't notice this.

Kyurem-B is... odd. While it does have a monstrous Attack stat it doesn't really have much else. A Mediocre speed stat, a predictable movepool with decent coverage I guess, a bad defensive typing, and weaknesses to all three entry hazards. I guess being neutral to Ice Shard is kinda cool, but the Ice typing brings on weaknesses to Mach Punch and Bullet Punch, which are both still prominent in the metagame. Don't get me wrong, his banded Outrage is scary, and Scarf set is really good for cleaning, but really Kyurem-B is redundant in this metagame. I would say he is even outclassed by Salamence as set-up sweeper and scarfer, Dragonite as a bulky attacker, and Haxorus as a CB wall breaker. He has a small place in OU, but really he isn't all he's cracked up to be.

 

[doublenikesocks]

RE: Pokemon of the Week - #17: Kyurem-B

Oh wow, I didn't notice this.

Kyurem-B is... odd. While it does have a monstrous Attack stat it doesn't really have much else. A Mediocre speed stat, a predictable movepool with decent coverage I guess, a bad defensive typing, and weaknesses to all three entry hazards. I guess being neutral to Ice Shard is kinda cool, but the Ice typing brings on weaknesses to Mach Punch and Bullet Punch, which are both still prominent in the metagame. Don't get me wrong, his banded Outrage is scary, and Scarf set is really good for cleaning, but really Kyurem-B is redundant in this metagame. I would say he is even outclassed by Salamence as set-up sweeper and scarfer, Dragonite as a bulky attacker, and Haxorus as a CB wall breaker. He has a small place in OU, but really he isn't all he's cracked up to be.

I really think that you are underrating Kyurem-B. Not only does he have absolutely fantastic defenses, he ruins rain teams that lack Scizor or Breloom. Fusion Bolt+Ice Beam is great coverage, and he also has his Dragon STAB as well as Earth Power and Focus Blast to round out his movepool. I consider Kyurem-B to be the best mixed wallbreaker in OU. Not to mention that it has giant substitutes, and reliable recovery in Roost. Combine with with a spinner and hazards, and you have one fantastic wallbreaker/sweeper.

I rank his sets in this order:
SubClaws
Specially Based mixed
Physically based mix
Choice
anything else

As for CB sets, he is greatly outclassed by Haxorus, who is not weak to Mach Punch/Bullet Punch and has better coverage. I think that Kyurem-B outclasses Dragonite for Sub sets, but not for tank sets. Salamence definitely outclasses Kyurem as a scarfer, but Kyurem is better with SubClaws.

Do use Kyurem-B in OU. You will not regret it.

 

[Professor Palutena]

Hasn't quite been a week yet, but I'm going to bring a new Pokemon to the table anyways.

Week 19

[animate]landorus[/animate]

DJ Landlos is in the house!

Landorus has been a big threat to lots of teams ever since its creation, and it's pretty easy to see why. 125 Attack is great, putting it in the same ballpark as other physical attackers like Garchomp, Terrakion and Gyarados. 101 Speed is also great, albeit a bit trolling. This puts it above the fabled base 100 speed tier, letting a Choice Scarf set be really quite great. 89/90/80 defenses aren't great, but they do give Landorus some bulk. Oh, but I haven't even talked about Sand Force yet, turning Landorus into one of the greatest sandstorm abusers in OU, if not the best. Options like Gravity, Swords Dance and Rock Polish also exist to turn Landorus into a frightening behemoth that ravages villages like a ruthless barbarian.

Oh hey, but I haven't even touched on the other side of its offensive potential yet. Prior to BW2, Landorus' solid 115 Special Attack went largely unused, save for Hidden Power Ice. But now with Sheer Force, Landorus can finally use its Special Attack to hit incredibly hard like the Sand Force set, without relying on sandstorm support to do so. With Earth Power acting as a main STAB, as well as supporting moves such as Focus Blast, Psychic and Sludge Wave, Landorus' potential is only beginning to be unlocked, and it's definitely a top tier threat in OU now.

So how are you using this funny looking genie? Are you going all out with Sand Force? Or are you exploring the options of Sheer Force? Or are you trying something different? What are you using to counter/check Landorus?

A reminder that discussion is to only be about the Incarnate forme of Landorus. The Therian forme's discussion may come at a later time.

 

[Guts]

Landorus is still definitely an OU threat! I enjoy using specially-oriented Lando with Scarf and Rock Polish being the most common sets, both of which can utilize Sheer Force. Landbro makes an excellent scouting Pokemon too, and can be very dangerous if your opponent doesn't scout him themselves. As far as counters go, most sets can usually be walled by some common defensive threats in OU after you figure out what set your opponent is using, although SD/Rock Polish can be tricky to beat if he gets a boost up (especially if he's under a sub).