Standard Pokemon TCG - 2017/18 Standard Meta Tier List

[Marowhacker]

Hey all

Decided to put together a list of current decks which I think are good enough to be tiered, and listed accordingly. Please let me know what you think, and any decks I could add

Tier 1 (Decks that are winning big tournaments and only have some poor matchups.) (Ordered by viability)
Gardevoir-GX
Golisopod-GX/Garbodor
Volcanion-EX/Fire
Tapu Bulu-GX/Vikavolt
Espeon-GX/Garbodor
Alolan Ninetales-GX/Variants

Tier 1.5 (Decks that are undoubtedly good, however perhaps not ready to take the step to Tier 1, or have recently dropped down from Tier 1. Likely have placed well at a recent tournament.) (Not ordered)

Darkrai-EX/Darkness
Drampa-GX/Garbodor
Xerneas BREAK

Tier 2 (Decks that can place top-cut at big tournaments and win league cups, but generally have solid counters in Tier 1.) (Ordered by viability)
Metagross-GX
Pikachu-EX/Magnezone
Decidueye-GX/Variants
Greninja BREAK
Golisopod-GX/Non-Garb Variants
Solgaleo-GX/Rayquaza
Lapras-GX/Waterbox

Tier 3 (Up-and-coming or weaker decks that are yet to see top-level play but could in the future, or have seen top-level play but are beginning to drop off.) (Not ordered)
Umbreon-GX
Quad Sylveon-GX
Alolan Raticate/Variants
Tapu Koko-GX
Lycanroc-GX
Kingdra

Tier X (A tier of forgotten decks who have almost entirely or have entirely dropped away from prominency within the last year.) (Not ordered)
M Mewtwo-EX
M Scizor-EX
Rainbow Road
Darkrai Dragons
Tauros-GX
Alolan Muk-GX

Tier S (Coming soon, to a league near you...) (Not ordered)
Zoroark-GX/Variants (has to do well at a tournament somewhere before I place it, will likely be tier 1 soon
Raichu-GX/Variants (^)
Millotic (see what I did there????)
Alolan Golem-GX/Variants
Silvally-GX/Variants
Gyarados-GX
Buzzwole-GX
Quad Guzzlord-GX

 

[Duo]

I'm honeslty surprised so many people are still putting Alolan Ninetales GX in tier 1. It's not a bad deck, but the main reason why it sees success is because of Espeon EX and Tapu Koko spread damage.

Rather than Alolan Ninetales GX/variants in tier 1, I'd say it makes more sense to put Espeon EX/variants in that same slot. The only tier 1 deck in the meta right now that doesn't care about Espeon EX is fire. Every other deck has crucial evolutions that they need althroughout the game, and spread damage -> Miraculous Shine is a viable solution to all of them. Spread damage + Miraculous Shine is becoming such a big issue that people teched in Mr. Mime at Hartford to play against it.

I have never seen someone play Darkrai or seen event results where Darkrai placed anywhere worth mentioning. If someone wants to enlighten me on the last time Darkrai placed top 8 in a recent standard tournament, I'm all ears.

On that note, Greninja BREAK is too low on the list, as it placed 2nd at Hartford Regionals. Greninja placed higher than every Gardevoir deck at Hartford. How is that not tier 1? Granted Drampa/Garbodor placed 3rd in the same event, both deserve Tier 1 positions. Both of them placed higher than Gardevoir at the Regional level.

I also want to say that Tier 1.5 shouldn't even exist. You can't just assume that a deck has good meta potential without it actually placing at an event. If you have no proof of Xerneas or Darkrai doing well at least at the League Cup level, then there's not much point.

Meta tier lists are about results, not potential. Results are absolute; potential is just untested theory.

 

[Marowhacker]

I'm honeslty surprised so many people are still putting Alolan Ninetales GX in tier 1. It's not a bad deck, but the main reason why it sees success is because of Espeon EX and Tapu Koko spread damage.

Rather than Alolan Ninetales GX/variants in tier 1, I'd say it makes more sense to put Espeon EX/variants in that same slot. The only tier 1 deck in the meta right now that doesn't care about Espeon EX is fire. Every other deck has crucial evolutions that they need althroughout the game, and spread damage -> Miraculous Shine is a viable solution to all of them. Spread damage + Miraculous Shine is becoming such a big issue that people teched in Mr. Mime at Hartford to play against it.

I have never seen someone play Darkrai or seen event results where Darkrai placed anywhere worth mentioning. If someone wants to enlighten me on the last time Darkrai placed top 8 in a recent standard tournament, I'm all ears.

On that note, Greninja BREAK is too low on the list, as it placed 2nd at Hartford Regionals. Greninja placed higher than every Gardevoir deck at Hartford. How is that not tier 1? Granted Drampa/Garbodor placed 3rd in the same event, both deserve Tier 1 positions. Both of them placed higher than Gardevoir at the Regional level.

I also want to say that Tier 1.5 shouldn't even exist. You can't just assume that a deck has good meta potential without it actually placing at an event. If you have no proof of Xerneas or Darkrai doing well at least at the League Cup level, then there's not much point.

Meta tier lists are about results, not potential. Results are absolute; potential is just untested theory.

Alright, let's respond to all this.

Alolan Ninetales can function as a top tier deck on its own without Espeon (just watch Zachary Bokhari), Espeon just buffs it and it's probably the best Espeon variant there is. Also, the deck name is usually the focus of the deck when most damage spread decks only play 1.

Darkrai is undeniably a good deck, especially in Expanded, however it's dropped off a lot recently and hasn't done too well in the forthcoming season. Would tier X be too harsh, or should I let it rot?

Greninja is so inconsistent that it's hard to ever list it as tier 1. Sometimes it's pretty much BDIF, sometimes it's nowhere to be seen. I don't think 1 good Greninja list is enough to go straight to tier 1, so I'll leave it at tier 2 for now.

Xerneas has had so much hype recently that I'd probably be flamed for not listing it, however I can't see too much evidence of this. It's won league cups and placed top 32 from what I've seen, so I'll leave it for now and maybe consider it.

Thanks for the input though, and thanks for the zoroark/ninetales skeleton list

 

[Duo]

The only thing I want to say about your comments is if Alolan Ninetales GX is a Tier 1 list because of 1 particular player, why is Greninja BREAK denied a Tier 1 position because it's only 1 guy who got to top? Also if you're refering to the worlds match up, I watched all of the rounds and let's be real that opening the Giratina Promo in all of the games he won was insane, and Giratina Promo carried that world victory pretty hard. Not to mention there was still Rough Seas in the format at that time to help him reach top 8 in the first place against all the other match ups. Alolan Ninetales GX lost a lot of its survivability after rotation, and it doesn't hit hard enough like Tapu Bulu, Gardevoir, or fire to keep up with the game. It's in a very awkward 2 hit KO state with very selective OHKO potential that doesn't have any sort of play distruption like Garbodor variants. Alolan Ninetales GX, right now, can only be Tier 1 with Espeon EX. I stand pretty firm on this opinion, but I'm not going to deny anyone's right to call it a Tier 1 deck. If you're talking about a more recent deck list where Alolan Ninetales GX took top 8 in Standard Format I'm all ears.

I've played Greninja BREAK before and I know how inconsistent it can be, but I've also struggled with consistency in every deck ever.

Hartford regionals had 751 players. It was consistent enough to take 2nd place in a 751 player environment.

Now I'm not really saying Greninja BREAK HAS to be in Tier 1. I think it's good enough to be in tier 1 when it performs at its best, and there are a few players like Michael Long who seem to be capable of doing that. I just feel like a double standard is being placed here because you're pointing at a single player representing Alolan Ninetales GX, pre-rotation, winning and saying that me doing the same for Greninja BREAK in the current rotation doesn't count.

As far as Darkrai was concerned, I was only talking about standard format because I am only informed about standard format and assumed that this was a list for standard. I would put it in Tier X simply because I don't think it has been tested against the world and it has had almost no representation at the Regional level. Is it still good? Probably. But do we know for certain? Not really.

Hope I don't seem like I'm attacking your by the way. I'm just very stern with my opinion on this kind of topic.

 

[CaptZero]

This should go in Competitive. This is deck garage, here for sharing and receiving critic on decklists.