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Standard Post Rotation Volcanion (BKT-BUS)

Cobrafilms

Aspiring Trainer
Member
*Update v2

Pokémon - 14

* 3 Volcanion
* 3 Volcanion-EX
* 1 Turtonator-GX
*2 Ho-oh-GX BUS
* 3 Tapu Lele-GX
* 1 Staryu BKP
* 1 Starmie EVO


Trainer Cards - 31

* 4 Professor Sycamore
* 4 N
* 3 Guzma BUS
*2 Kiawe BUS
* 3 Brooklet Hill
* 1 Rescue Stretcher
* 2 Switch
* 2 Field Blower
* 3 Fighting Fury Belt
* 3 Float Stone
* 4 Ultra Ball


Energy - 15

* 15 Fire Energy Energy

Change log:
-1 Volcanion (Energy acceleration less needed)
-1 Guzma (Three Leles and 4 ultra balls should cover the 4th Guzma)
+1 Switch (Heavy retreat costs and resetting attacks)
+1 Ultra Ball (More consistent turn one Kiawe)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strategy:
By now, most people know how Volcanion works. So I'm going to explain the changes going into this new format.

Kiawe: I am highly convinced that this card will be great in fire decks, and Volcanion is no exception. When playing 3 Tapu Lele and 3 Ultra Ball, it is highly possible that you can get a turn one Kiawe. Doing so will allow up to 5 energies turn one. That's pretty scary. This also explains why I am only deciding to run a single copy of Turtonator-GX, Kiawe makes his Nitro Tank attack less necessary.

Ho-oh-GX: This is a long shot. After looking at this card for the first time, I wasn't drooling over his GX attack as most people were. I looked at his 2nd attack. [F] [F] [F] [C]: 180 Damage - You can't use this move next turn. Another viable attacker in this deck. Yes, I get it, "Four energies is ridiculous!" It's a stronger and more consistent attack with Kiawe. It's drawback is more manageable than Turtonator or Volcanion's, especially when considering Guzma can easily reset this recoil (I play four.)

Guzma: Simple. Replacement for Lysandre. This card is actually more proficient than Lysandre in this deck, because it can reset Volcanion and Ho-oh's attack drawbacks (Guzma into float stone or Staryu and retreat back.) This is why we play an extra copy of float stone.

Additional Notes:
*One less Switch and no Olympia because Guzma.
*One more energy because it makes Kiawe better.

Thanks!
 
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Hm. I quite enjoy this Decklist. The upside to the 1-of Ho-oh as well is that it can create some late game pressure with it's GX attack to retrieve a lost Volcanion EX or your Turtonator. Unfortunately, I am not currently the best deckbuilder at the moment, more of a strategist, so I won't have much suggestions for you. Nevertheless, I like your list, and since I'm currently building Volcanion, I may even take some inspiration from this list to assist my task. If that is okay with you, that is.

Have a good day/night!
 
Nice list. I run a Volcanion deck too, but a different variant than yours. I feature Turtonator GX as my primary attacker primarily; otherwise, I utilize similar Pokémon.

I would suggest the 2 things for your consideration:


+1 Kiawe. Given your stated strategy, you may want another to significantly enhance your chances of having 1 available. Consider -1 Max Elixir.

+1 Parallel City. Reducing your opponent's bench to just 3 Pokémon potentially not only disrupts the opponent's bench, but it may also apply early game pressure just before you play your Kiawe. Furthermore, Parallel City can remove unwanted/unneeded Pokémon from your bench. Consider -1 Max Elixir or Brooklet Hill.

I hope you find these comments helpful.
 
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Nice list. I run a Volcanion deck too, but a different variant than yours. I feature Turtonator GX as my primary attacker primarily; otherwise, I utilize similar Pokémon.

I would suggest the 2 things for your consideration:


+1 Kiawe. Given your stated strategy, you may want another tosignificantly enhance your chances of having 1 available. Consider -1 Max Elixir.

+1 Parallel City. Reducing your opponent's bench to just 3 Pokémon potentially not only disrupts the opponent's bench, but it may also apply early game pressure just before you play your Kiawe. Furthermore, Parallel City can remove unwanted/unneeded Pokémon from your bench. Consider -1 Max Elixir or Brooklet Hill.

I hope you find these comments helpful.

Yeah, I was thinking about adding a second Kiawe for more consistency. Max Elixir seems like a great card to remove in replacement, as the extra energy acceleration isn't necessary with Kiawe. My main goal of Kiawe is to set it up turn one, and hopefully going first.

I haven't thought about parallel city, but I don't really think it's all that great because it reduces your damage output by 20 per attack, assuming you reduce their bench to 3.
 
I'm relatively new to the competitive Pokemon TCG scene and dove head first into Volcanion because I love fire Pokemon so I am just spewing some discussions points out here to see how to best position this awesome archetype!

Decklist Decisions:

I, too, am excited for Kiawe. I like having 2, in case 1 gets prized, but I don't see using more than one a game unless we draw very poorly and get energy starved late game.

I agree Guzma will over-perform. Keeping a single Switch is good and adding the Float Stone is wise.

I'm still on the fence about Choice Band versus Fighting Fury Belt myself. I encountered more shorted in damage for 1HKO then +40 didn't help keep Turt or Volc up an extra turn. With upping Float Stones to 3, which I agree with, I may cut a Band or Belt. Just want to keep an eye on the Item count if Garb is still going to dominate the meta as a partner.

Ho-oh GX seems great for this deck. One extra energy for 20-50 more damage is well worth it. See Kiawe. I think he straight up replaces a Turtonator GX but I would like to see if we need that 2nd copy. GX attack seems a bit hyped but it could help in a pinch to get Turt or Volc EX back.

Four (4) copies of Tapu Lele seems necessary, ~54% chance (edit) of the turn 1 Kiawe with 4 Lele and 2 Kiawe, but I am hoping we can get away with 3 after we see how it plays out. Right now with VS Seeker I am often annoyed when I draw my 2nd copy. Also, she works with the Parallel City, too, since we could drop down some empty Leles from the bench.

I am open to 1 Parallel City for a Brooklet Hill. Some game the -20 will be negligible in some match-ups and really cut the opponents ability to setup (A9Tales, Metagross, etc) and most of the time will never see the field.

Dropping to 2 Brooklet Hills seems risky but I have been successful with getting at least a pair of Volc EXs out between a combination of Professor, UBs and Rescue Stretcher.

Lastly, I am sold on a Skyla in my 60 because I have lost count of how many times I was able to search for the Item/Brooklet Hill I needed to steal a game away.

Post-rotation list:

Pokémon - 14
* 4 Volcanion
* 3 Volcanion-EX
* 1 Turtonator-GX
* 1 Ho-oh-GX BUS
* 3 Tapu Lele-GX
* 1 Staryu EVO (I play against a lot of Ninetales and was sick of it getting Sniped, probably should be BKP)
* 1 Starmie EVO

Trainer Cards - 31
* 4 Professor Sycamore
* 4 N
* 4 Guzma BUS
* 2 Kiawe BUS
* 1 Skyla
* 2 Brooklet Hill
* 1 Parallel City
* 1 Rescue Stretcher
* 1 Switch
* 2 Field Blower
* 1 Max Elixir (under-performs in my experiences, might replace with Brooklet or Turtonator-GX)
* 2 Fighting Fury Belt // Choice Band
* 3 Float Stone
* 3 Ultra Ball

Energy - 15
* 15 Fire Energy

The Meta:
I think we will be rotating into a very favorable position from an already great Tier 1 position.

Greninja will still be around but losing Dive Balls may hurt their already fragile consistency and give us a better shot at this unfavorable match-up. Not to mention Ho-oh will really help overcome

I think Metagross took a dip but I think it will comeback to combat the Gardevoir GX decks that are bound to emerge (which I hope we have 50/50 match-up against) and we have an already great match-up against them.

Garbador//Drampa/Espeon is a bit of a boogeyman to me (maybe I am a little too cautious).

Zoroark and whatever. Another boogeyman. Parallel City is sweet tech to drop guys from our own bench.

Quick rules question:
I understand the technique of double-Switching to allow Volcanion EX, and our new phoenix friend, but how does this work rules-wise? Even judges/professors haven't been able to give me a straight answer.

I would love to see any comments or variations!
 
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I'm relatively new to the competitive Pokemon TCG scene and dove head first into Volcanion because I love fire Pokemon so I am just spewing some discussions points out here to see how to best position this awesome archetype!

Decklist Decisions:

I, too, am excited for Kiawe. I like having 2, in case 1 gets prized, but I don't see using more than one a game unless we draw very poorly and get energy starved late game.

I agree Guzma will over-perform. Keeping a single Switch is good and adding the Float Stone is wise.

I'm still on the fence about Choice Band versus Fighting Fury Belt myself. I encountered more shorted in damage for 1HKO then +40 didn't help keep Turt or Volc up an extra turn. With upping Float Stones to 3, which I agree with, I may cut a Band or Belt. Just want to keep an eye on the Item count if Garb is still going to dominate the meta as a partner.

Ho-oh GX seems great for this deck. One extra energy for 20-50 more damage is well worth it. See Kiawe. I think he straight up replaces a Turtonator GX but I would like to see if we need that 2nd copy. GX attack seems a bit hyped but it could help in a pinch to get Turt or Volc EX back.

Four (4) copies of Tapu Lele seems necessary, ~54% chance (edit) of the turn 1 Kiawe with 4 Lele and 2 Kiawe, but I am hoping we can get away with 3 after we see how it plays out. Right now with VS Seeker I am often annoyed when I draw my 2nd copy. Also, she works with the Parallel City, too, since we could drop down some empty Leles from the bench.

I am open to 1 Parallel City for a Brooklet Hill. Some game the -20 will be negligible in some match-ups and really cut the opponents ability to setup (A9Tales, Metagross, etc) and most of the time will never see the field.

Dropping to 2 Brooklet Hills seems risky but I have been successful with getting at least a pair of Volc EXs out between a combination of Professor, UBs and Rescue Stretcher.

Lastly, I am sold on a Skyla in my 60 because I have lost count of how many times I was able to search for the Item/Brooklet Hill I needed to steal a game away.

Post-rotation list:

Pokémon - 14
* 4 Volcanion
* 3 Volcanion-EX
* 1 Turtonator-GX
* 1 Ho-oh-GX BUS
* 3 Tapu Lele-GX
* 1 Staryu EVO (I play against a lot of Ninetales and was sick of it getting Sniped, probably should be BKP)
* 1 Starmie EVO

Trainer Cards - 31
* 4 Professor Sycamore
* 4 N
* 4 Guzma BUS
* 2 Kiawe BUS
* 1 Skyla
* 2 Brooklet Hill
* 1 Parallel City
* 1 Rescue Stretcher
* 1 Switch
* 2 Field Blower
* 1 Max Elixir (under-performs in my experiences, might replace with Brooklet or Turtonator-GX)
* 2 Fighting Fury Belt // Choice Band
* 3 Float Stone
* 3 Ultra Ball

Energy - 15
* 15 Fire Energy

The Meta:
I think we will be rotating into a very favorable position from an already great Tier 1 position.

Greninja will still be around but losing Dive Balls may hurt their already fragile consistency and give us a better shot at this unfavorable match-up. Not to mention Ho-oh will really help overcome

I think Metagross took a dip but I think it will comeback to combat the Gardevoir GX decks that are bound to emerge (which I hope we have 50/50 match-up against) and we have an already great match-up against them.

Garbador//Drampa/Espeon is a bit of a boogeyman to me (maybe I am a little too cautious).

Zoroark and whatever. Another boogeyman. Parallel City is sweet tech to drop guys from our own bench.

Quick rules question:
I understand the technique of double-Switching to allow Volcanion EX, and our new phoenix friend, but how does this work rules-wise? Even judges/professors haven't been able to give me a straight answer.

I would love to see any comments or variations!

*I agree with your Pokemon lineup (Except Staryu, I like free retreat for Volcanion.)

*I understand what advantages a copy of Parallel City may impose, however I feel like it really takes a stab at the consistency of the deck (Which is one of the deck's strong points.) Without the 3rd Brooklet, I just feel like I can't get out my Starmie and Volcanion-EXs out quick enough.

*I completely agree with 2 Kiawe. I feel like this would make that golden turn one easier to accomplish more consistently (Drop a copy of Max Elixir.)

*Another value of Ho-Oh-GX is that you can still use his first attack even the turn after you attacked with the 180 damage one. I don't really see a scenario where his GX attack will be useful, however. Like I mentioned above, he blossoms with Kiawe in the deck.

*I'll play-test with both 3 and 4 Tapu Leles. I feel like 3 might be going overboard, simply because we don't have the bench space, and running 4 means a Lele start will happen too often. I'll cross this bridge when I manage to pull a 4th Lele.

*The Fighting Fury Belt or Choice Band decision is between 2 cards that are situationally useful. It really is a judgement call; which scenario do you run into more often? Playing a GX heavy deck, or something like Greninja, Kingdra, and Garbodor?

*I never thought about Skyla, I'll ponder over this one.

*If a Pokemon, who was previously in the active position, is moved to the bench, all effects of attacks are reset.
I don't think this is verbatim, however, this is what it effectively means.

I'm going to a prerelease this weekend, and I'm splitting a booster box with someone, so hopefully I can pull some cards I need for Volcanion (I play Ryan Sabelhaus' list now IRL.)
I only have 2 Leles currently, so I NEED at LEAST one more.
 
Thank you for the feedback!

I forgot to ask what people think of Max Elixir. As I mentioned, it was lackluster in the dozens of games, mostly casual play, so I removed them altogether. Since then I have added a copy of Skyla that has been excellent in combination with Lele and VS Seeker to a clutch search for the Items (and Stadiums, if required). Sometimes that non-Supporter tutor is critical for certain match-ups (e.g. Field Blower vs. Garb, Choice Band vs. ) or guarantees that you find the Switch effect you need without the risk of not drawing into it with Sycamore or N.

Back to the point, I can recall game-deciding turns where Lele -> Skyla -> Max Elixir was the golden play; That's why I think will go back to a single copy. I admit I am always sold into toolbox-type decks/effects far too easily (long-time Magic the Gathering player) and the possibility of prizing these one-of 'tools' can put a wrench in that.

All very good points and I hope you fall into some Tapu Leles and open some great stuff from BUS!
 
Thank you for the feedback!

I forgot to ask what people think of Max Elixir. As I mentioned, it was lackluster in the dozens of games, mostly casual play, so I removed them altogether. Since then I have added a copy of Skyla that has been excellent in combination with Lele and VS Seeker to a clutch search for the Items (and Stadiums, if required). Sometimes that non-Supporter tutor is critical for certain match-ups (e.g. Field Blower vs. Garb, Choice Band vs. ) or guarantees that you find the Switch effect you need without the risk of not drawing into it with Sycamore or N.

Back to the point, I can recall game-deciding turns where Lele -> Skyla -> Max Elixir was the golden play; That's why I think will go back to a single copy. I admit I am always sold into toolbox-type decks/effects far too easily (long-time Magic the Gathering player) and the possibility of prizing these one-of 'tools' can put a wrench in that.

All very good points and I hope you fall into some Tapu Leles and open some great stuff from BUS!

Skyla won't be as effective without VS Seeker, though.
 
Quick update!

Pokémon - 15

* 4 Volcanion
* 3 Volcanion-EX
* 1 Turtonator-GX
*2 Ho-oh-GX BUS
* 3 Tapu Lele-GX
* 1 Staryu BKP
* 1 Starmie EVO


Trainer Cards - 30

* 4 Professor Sycamore
* 4 N
* 4 Guzma BUS
*2 Kiawe BUS
* 3 Brooklet Hill
* 1 Rescue Stretcher
* 1 Switch
* 2 Field Blower
* 3 Fighting Fury Belt
* 3 Float Stone
* 3 Ultra Ball


Energy - 15

* 15 Fire Energy Energy

Change log:
-2 Max Elixir This card doesn't seem necessary since we now have Kiawe. The main goal of Max Elixir was to make the deck run fast, and Kiawe serves this purpose just fine
+1 Kiawe To make the turn one Kiawe more consistent.
+1 Ho-oh-GX I feel like this card will serve a bigger role in this deck than most think. Playing two seems like a smart choice for now.

Feedback is appreciated.

Thanks!
 
Quick update!

Pokémon - 15

* 4 Volcanion
* 3 Volcanion-EX
* 1 Turtonator-GX
*2 Ho-oh-GX BUS
* 3 Tapu Lele-GX
* 1 Staryu BKP
* 1 Starmie EVO


Trainer Cards - 30

* 4 Professor Sycamore
* 4 N
* 4 Guzma BUS
*2 Kiawe BUS
* 3 Brooklet Hill
* 1 Rescue Stretcher
* 1 Switch
* 2 Field Blower
* 3 Fighting Fury Belt
* 3 Float Stone
* 3 Ultra Ball


Energy - 15

* 15 Fire Energy Energy

Change log:
-2 Max Elixir This card doesn't seem necessary since we now have Kiawe. The main goal of Max Elixir was to make the deck run fast, and Kiawe serves this purpose just fine
+1 Kiawe To make the turn one Kiawe more consistent.
+1 Ho-oh-GX I feel like this card will serve a bigger role in this deck than most think. Playing two seems like a smart choice for now.

Feedback is appreciated.

Thanks!
Your revised list seem quite solid, IMO. I prefer using different counts for some cards (e.g., Ho-Oh GX, Guzma, N, Switch, etc.), but those are more personal play-style choices.

Although my Volcanion EX deck is different in strategy and design, our decks still have similarities:

2 Kiawes seem to be the "right" count at the moment after some initial, play-testing. I run a 2 Tapu Lele GX, 3 N, 4 Professor Sycamore, 4 Ultra Ball "engine"
3 Fight Fury Belts also works well for me. I prefer to "extend" my attackers' HP as much as possible since I aim to have as many "fast" 1HKOs as possible.

Another difference is that I run no Brooklet Hill Stadiums since I find this Stadium too "limited" since it only serves the purpose of getting the Volcanion EXs into play easily. I prefer to run Altar of the Sunne and Parallel City given their respective versatility.

I would suggest incorporating at least 1 Parallel City for a few reasons:

Disrupting your opponent's bench has potential of leading to a favorable game board situation, especially when you've played a Kiawe.
This Stadium can also "clean up" your bench when you have too many unneeded/unwanted Pokémon on your bench.
I "lean" more towards Switch (vs. Float Stone) since these can not be Field Blower'ed away. Of course I'll lose the reuse of the Switch (unlike an attached Float Stone), but I feel the Guzmas provides a nice balance thus affording me more opportunities to get my "stuck" Active back to the bench. So, consider replacing 1 Float Stone with a Switch.

Why no Acerola or Sophocles?


Has anyone tested Wishful Baton?
 
Your revised list seem quite solid, IMO. I prefer using different counts for some cards (e.g., Ho-Oh GX, Guzma, N, Switch, etc.), but those are more personal play-style choices.

Although my Volcanion EX deck is different in strategy and design, our decks still have similarities:

2 Kiawes seem to be the "right" count at the moment after some initial, play-testing. I run a 2 Tapu Lele GX, 3 N, 4 Professor Sycamore, 4 Ultra Ball "engine"
3 Fight Fury Belts also works well for me. I prefer to "extend" my attackers' HP as much as possible since I aim to have as many "fast" 1HKOs as possible.

Another difference is that I run no Brooklet Hill Stadiums since I find this Stadium too "limited" since it only serves the purpose of getting the Volcanion EXs into play easily. I prefer to run Altar of the Sunne and Parallel City given their respective versatility.

I would suggest incorporating at least 1 Parallel City for a few reasons:

Disrupting your opponent's bench has potential of leading to a favorable game board situation, especially when you've played a Kiawe.
This Stadium can also "clean up" your bench when you have too many unneeded/unwanted Pokémon on your bench.
I "lean" more towards Switch (vs. Float Stone) since these can not be Field Blower'ed away. Of course I'll lose the reuse of the Switch (unlike an attached Float Stone), but I feel the Guzmas provides a nice balance thus affording me more opportunities to get my "stuck" Active back to the bench. So, consider replacing 1 Float Stone with a Switch.

Why no Acerola or Sophocles?


Has anyone tested Wishful Baton?

I only run three ultra balls because Brooklet hill can get out most of what you want early game (except Ho-Oh/Turt.)

Why would Acerola be good in this deck? It seems counterproductive with Kiawe and Power Heater.

I tested Parallel City for a bit, and my win rate saw a significant drop. [-9% in 10 games] I wasn't hitting the right numbers with the -20, and I was never in a scenario where limiting my bench was useful.
 
Quick update! v2

Pokémon - 14

* 3 Volcanion
* 3 Volcanion-EX
* 1 Turtonator-GX
*2 Ho-oh-GX BUS
* 3 Tapu Lele-GX
* 1 Staryu BKP
* 1 Starmie EVO


Trainer Cards - 31

* 4 Professor Sycamore
* 4 N
* 3 Guzma BUS
*2 Kiawe BUS
* 3 Brooklet Hill
* 1 Rescue Stretcher
* 2 Switch
* 2 Field Blower
* 3 Fighting Fury Belt
* 3 Float Stone
* 4 Ultra Ball


Energy - 15

* 15 Fire Energy Energy

Change log:
-1 Volcanion (Energy acceleration less needed)
-1 Guzma (Three Leles and 4 ultra balls should cover the 4th Guzma)
+1 Switch (Heavy retreat costs and resetting attacks)
+1 Ultra Ball (More consistent turn one Kiawe)
 
I'd swap a Volcanion for the EX. 4 is a bit overkill and you should be playing plenty of Switch cards (btw play more Switch) that getting it into the Active spot shouldn't be difficult. And I'd maximize on the EX because you want to be using his Ability multiple times per turn, even if you end up prizing one or two.
 
I'd swap a Volcanion for the EX. 4 is a bit overkill and you should be playing plenty of Switch cards (btw play more Switch) that getting it into the Active spot shouldn't be difficult. And I'd maximize on the EX because you want to be using his Ability multiple times per turn, even if you end up prizing one or two.
I dunno. The way I see it is swap a Lele to grab another Turt, and then maybe swap an N to grab a 4th baby Volcanion. The reason being because you want to be accelerating energy as much as possible and using Steam Up to power stuff up. This works well with Turt because unlike Ho-Oh, it's drawback isn't too severe. Sure, Ho-Oh can snipe the bench, and hit for decent damage, but the drawback for Phoenix Burn isn't as harsh as Turt's, while also costing more than Turt. Ho-Oh will make great use for it's GX attack, but it sort of boils down to what you need more of, Accelerating energy from Turt, or the benefit of retrieving Volcs and Turts from the discard with Ho-Oh. So I say it goes down to personal preference for the GX attack.
 
I dunno. The way I see it is swap a Lele to grab another Turt, and then maybe swap an N to grab a 4th baby Volcanion. The reason being because you want to be accelerating energy as much as possible and using Steam Up to power stuff up. This works well with Turt because unlike Ho-Oh, it's drawback isn't too severe. Sure, Ho-Oh can snipe the bench, and hit for decent damage, but the drawback for Phoenix Burn isn't as harsh as Turt's, while also costing more than Turt. Ho-Oh will make great use for it's GX attack, but it sort of boils down to what you need more of, Accelerating energy from Turt, or the benefit of retrieving Volcs and Turts from the discard with Ho-Oh. So I say it goes down to personal preference for the GX attack.

I don't think I've ever needed more than 2 of the babies during the game, but to each his own.
 
Quick rules question:
I understand the technique of double-Switching to allow Volcanion EX, and our new phoenix friend, but how does this work rules-wise? Even judges/professors haven't been able to give me a straight answer.

Don't know if anyone ever answered this for you, but all effects of that nature on your Active Pokémon are reset whenever you retreat or switch out to the Bench. 100%. Kind of alarming that there are judges and professors out there who don't know that. If you're not sure about any rulings, you can always ask in the Competitive forum I believe.

I only run three ultra balls because Brooklet hill can get out most of what you want early game (except Ho-Oh/Turt.)

I tested Parallel City for a bit, and my win rate saw a significant drop. [-9% in 10 games] I wasn't hitting the right numbers with the -20, and I was never in a scenario where limiting my bench was useful.

What does that equate to, one game? I don't think your sample size is large enough to draw any conclusions. Apparently Parallel City is a thing in this deck, but I haven't personally played with it, so I can't defend it.
 
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