Discussion Powering-up a Celebi & Venusaur GX

TuxedoBlack

TuxedoBlack

Old School Player
Member
I just recently opened 2 new TEU boxes and pulled 2 Celebi & Venusaur GXs. This Pokémon's first attack (for GCC energy cost) auto Burns, Confuses and Poisons the defending Pokémon. The auto Confusion is most appealing to me since it "forces" my opponent to flip on his/her next turn should my opponent wishes to attack with the his/her Confused active Pokémon. Hence, there is a 50% chance the attack could fail.

My question to the PB community is simply: how can one quickly and efficiently power-up this beast? Given Celebi & Venusaur GX attacks' energy requirements (GCC and GGCC, respectively), energy attachment-acceleration (EAA) is very important..

Along this line, 2 main thoughts come to mind: 1. manual (currently testing) or 2. Vikavolt.

Your thoughts on the EAA "engines" mentioned above? Any other ideas?

Thanks.
 
The way it's usually done from what I've seen is DCE and grass over two turns, use Pollen Hazard, then turn three attach another grass and use Solar Beam, then presumably you'll have some damage on you by that point, and use Evergreen GX. It's not particularly tough to power up, as long as you can delay them some.

I have seen some players use Vileplume to hold onto the active slot for a few turns to power up C&V, obviously only possible if you rare candy turn 2 into it, but not the worst idea. Vika also would have the same timeframe, but I feel like in the current meta Vileplume is more useful overall since it blocks the main attackers and forces your opponent to take an extra turn themselves. If nothing else, it can be used after you lose one C&V to block the active for a turn or two until a second C&V can be powered up, as long as you can prevent Guzmas.
 
Thanks for your response; much appreciated.

What's interesting about Vikavolt is that there are a lot of other cards (Tapu Koko GX, Tapu Koko PS, Tapu Koko, Tapu Bulu GX, etc.) that can also be utilized.
 
TuxedoBlack said:
Thanks for your response; much appreciated.

What's interesting about Vikavolt is that there are a lot of other cards (Tapu Koko GX, Tapu Koko PS, Tapu Koko, Tapu Bulu GX, etc.) that can also be utilized.
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Oh, for sure. Rayquaza would be an interesting possibility, for example. You could also go the Malamar route, or the Naganadel-Energy Switch route; either might be worth testing. Malamar gets you your non-grass energy, while Naganadel can get you whatever type but requires an energy switch for each one. I guess I assume that those don't work because I don't see anyone using them, but someone has to be the first, and I don't necessarily see all that much for sure.

Wishful Baton is probably also worth considering, so your second comes online quickly after you lose the first, especially if you don't use DCEs (but even without them it's probably worth it, as then you just have to attach the DCE).
 
snoopy369 said:
Oh, for sure. Rayquaza would be an interesting possibility, for example. You could also go the Malamar route, or the Naganadel-Energy Switch route; either might be worth testing. Malamar gets you your non-grass energy, while Naganadel can get you whatever type but requires an energy switch for each one. I guess I assume that those don't work because I don't see anyone using them, but someone has to be the first, and I don't necessarily see all that much for sure.

Wishful Baton is probably also worth considering, so your second comes online quickly after you lose the first, especially if you don't use DCEs (but even without them it's probably worth it, as then you just have to attach the DCE).
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Thanks again.

Naganadel could work for recovering discarded Basic energy. I will also test Quagsire to move recovered energy to the Active...

Wishful Baton (used these in my White Kyurem Shrine deck) is another good idea.

I got lots of options to test - this will be fun.
 
Quagsire only moves [W] energy. If you want to power up Celesaur without DCE then Vikavolt or SLG Venusaur are your best options. But offensive Celesaur is bad, and defensive Celesaur is only marginally better.

Blacephalon-GX is still a card, so if you want to play Celesaur, the stage 2 you should be playing it with is CES Sceptile and take the defensive/distruptive route.
 
Wechselbalg said:
Quagsire only moves [W] energy. If you want to power up Celesaur without DCE then Vikavolt or SLG Venusaur are your best options. But offensive Celesaur is bad, and defensive Celesaur is only marginally better.

Blacephalon-GX is still a card, so if you want to play Celesaur, the stage 2 you should be playing it with is CES Sceptile and take the defensive/distruptive route.
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Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, Quagsire won't work at all, apologies.

A 2-2 Glaceon GX line could work as a hard counter to Blacephalon GX. Weakness Policy is another option too. This route might be a bit more economical, space-wise.
 
Manual attachment has and is the only way this deck functions. Throwing acceleration takes away from the disruptive tanky strategy that beast is. I don't know what you'd even cut for a half-consistent Vikavolt line without removing core components of the strategy, other than Hammers or something.

Now if you wanted to do that, (get rid of some the flippy stuff), I like @Wechselbalg's approach. Blacephalon and Ultra Necrozma become non-issues now, which is kinda nice.
 
Serperior said:
Manual attachment has and is the only way this deck functions....
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Fairly strong statement... What are your specific thoughts and/or experiences do you have to support your claim?

Serperior said:
...Throwing acceleration takes away from the disruptive tanky strategy that beast is...
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Interestingly enough, my v1.0 deck version is definitely oriented for battle. I had not even considered building a disruptive, "tanky," more defensive deck version. However, I DO take advantage of Celebi & Venusaur GX's huge 270 HP bulk.

Serperior said:
...I don't know what you'd even cut for a half-consistent Vikavolt line without removing core components of the strategy, other than Hammers or something....
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I have not yet built and tested a Vikavolt deck version. A decent, perhaps "minimum," Vikavolt line would be 2-1-2, along with 3 Rare Candy, 4 Ultra Ball, multiple Net, Nest and Timer Balls.... When I built v1.0 of the deck, I included a small Zoroark GX line for alternative card-draw support, as well as an alternative attacker. Utilizing a potential "sacrificial" Celebi & Venusaur GX (that could possibly be KOd) as a starter (which I can save most times) has provided needed time for powering up an attacker. With Celebi & Venusaur GX's bulk and first attack, I've been able manage getting a second attacker ready too. Given my success with this strategy thus far, a Vikavolt-powered deck version may not even be built and tested.

Serperior said:
...I like @Wechselbalg's approach. Blacephalon and Ultra Necrozma become non-issues now, which is kinda nice.
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Agreed, but I'll choose not to dilute my deck for these 2 particular match-ups. I've only played twice against Blacephalon GX opponents, and the outcome was expected: I lost both (without using Weakness Policy which could make this match-up more competitive).. I've not played against Ultra Necrozma GX yet; but, I do expect this match-up to be more favorable than against Blacephalon GX.
 
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At this point (i.e., after playing lots (30+) of games with my current deck version (i.e., Celebi & Venusaur GX with Zoroark GX), I'm finding:
  • Manual attachment is "acceptable" given the "bulkiness" of a starting Celebi & Venusaur GX;
  • Multiple Acerola and/or Max Potion are critical to success;
  • Similarly, Wishful Baton and/or Buff Padding are very helpful too;
  • Without running Weakness Policy, Blacephalon GX and Charizard match-ups are most likely auto-losses; otherwise
  • This deck is quite competitive.
Other considerations that require testing include adding:
  • Enhanced Hammer(s) (for mirror match especially or against any other deck that utilizes Special energy)
  • Alolan Muk (SUM) - less of a priority
  • Weakness Policy (to counter R deck match-ups)
  • Machoke (to prevent bench damage)
One last observation: I just played against the "tanky" Celebi & Venusaur GX deck version. Although I won the game, this "tanky" deck version (i.e., Celebi & Venusaur GX with Shaymin, Hammers, etc.) is probably more likely to win more games (over lots of games) than a more offensive-oriented, deck version like mine.
 
The "tanky" Celebi/Venusaur-GX version is recognized as the playable version of the deck. I advise you to search for deck analyses on YouTube on the deck (AzulGG has a good one) and go from there.

Manual attachment is all you need. You have Life Forest <>, Gardenia, and Shaymin to sponge all of your opponent's attacks while attaching - you have plenty of time to absorb damage counters to attach Energy.

The deck is relatively competitive but will suffer from Blacephalon's recent success at Collinsville. It's certainly a fun deck, that's for sure.
 
Serperior said:
The deck is relatively competitive but will suffer from Blacephalon's recent success at Collinsville. It's certainly a fun deck, that's for sure.
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I'm curious to see if that's true or not. Blacephalon is a good deck, but it's quite easy to counter in the meta, so if people believe it will be popular, they'll counter it, and it won't be any good. It's also somewhat expensive (requiring quite a few cards that don't go in any other deck - ZoroRoc for example is much cheaper because everybody competitive already has Zoroarks and probably also Lycanroc, so only Lucario was a purchase for this meta). I'm curious to see if more than ~10% of decks are Blacephalon in the near future...
 
Celesaur also loses very hard against control, not just against Blacephalon, especially with Vileplume around. A good control deck will never let you power up Celesaur and i you somehow magically manage to do it, you will not be able to attack anyway. Having enough energy attached to shuffle your whole discard back with the GX attack is basically out of the question against control.
 
Wechselbalg said:
Celesaur also loses very hard against control, not just against Blacephalon, especially with Vileplume around. A good control deck will never let you power up Celesaur and i you somehow magically manage to do it, you will not be able to attack anyway. Having enough energy attached to shuffle your whole discard back with the GX attack is basically out of the question against control.
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I would disagree. Those control decks rely HEAVILY on hitting the Crushing Hammers which have a 50% of failure. Secondly, with running Net Ball, one can accelerate energy attachment onto a Celebi-Venusaur GX too for attacks. Also, in my case, I've incorporated an Oranguru (Resource Management) from the start. So, I'm well prepared to win those match-ups.
 
Three control decks included Crushing Hammer in Day 2 at Collinsville. My deck was one of them. Oranguru does not win you the control matchup. We let you take one Prize to trigger Counter Catcher and trap a Celesaur active and continue to remove Energy.

If you choose to play Switch, the game essentially becomes a stalemate as you cycle through throwing Switch and some Energy back in the deck and the control player continuing to Plumeria said Energy and Guzma-ing something on the Bench.
 
Serperior said:
...If you choose to play Switch, the game essentially becomes a stalemate as you cycle through throwing Switch and some Energy back in the deck and the control player continuing to Plumeria said Energy and Guzma-ing something on the Bench.
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Note that the "tanky" Celebi-Venusaur GX decks also run Hammers, switching cards, etc. too. Further, this deck can reduce damage opponent's damage and heal its Pokémon. So, this deck is not an auto-loss to any "control" deck. No doubt, it would be a match.
 
Today's control decks do not attach Energy. They literally just burn you out of resources while keeping theirs alive with Lusamine. Unless you ran Oranguru, (which the meta-viable versions do not), there is no contest and Celebi/Venusaur decks are autowins for control decks.
 
Also, doesn't Vileplume prevent Oranguru from using resource management anyway? The ability says 'can't attack', not 'prevent damage'.
 
I ran into a person online who used venusaur mixed with celebi venusaur, all he needed was 2 energies to attack on all he's venusaurs.
 
Needing 2 energys and a stage 2 to only be able to two shot most of the meta is not a good deck tanky celesaur is somewhat more viable but its still bad because double attachments and the meta right now is all heavy aggro and control decks which do in fact trash celesaur despite what some inexperienced players may think
 
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