Probability of Sableye draw

AmishEskimoNinja

Hating durant since 11/16/11
Member
Lets say you have 4 of a card in a deck, and its really important to get in your starting hand. Like maybe sableye. What is the statistical probability of drawing one with your 7 card hand? It seems like my opponents get one every game. But that can't be right.

I'm an engineer, so I'm usually good with numbers, but this is kind of a messy problem. You can't do a standard 60 choose 7 because there are four of the card.

Any Ideas? I predict everyone is going to guess at the probability based on what they see happen, which isn't really what I'm looking for.
 
You're looking at somewhere between .066 and .075. I'm pretty sure that is correct, but that is just off the top of my head. I'm not the best with numbers. Be warned, these threads tend to get filled with a whole bunch of formulas that don't get anybody anywhere.
 
I've always thought 28/60 because drawing 1 card its 4/60, so in 7 cards its 28/60 i've always said, "there's a 28/60 chance" so that's it.
 
That isn't right. After you draw the first card and it isn't a Sableye then your odds are increased to 4/59 and so on.
 
And it's not seven after you draw a card, it's eight. ;/ Don't forget you take six cards out for prizes beforehand, and Sableye may be in those. :O This is an epic probability problem. ;p

dmaster out.
 
^This thread is only talking about a Sableye start, after you have placed a basic, drawing a Sableye is useless because you don't go first and you don't get the early game attack.
 
True, I forgot that it's at the beginning. Oh well, I tried. :[

Ah ha. Got another one. It depends on how many Basics you have. Let's say you have 4 Sableye. Well then, that's guranteed Sableye start. Granted, probably a few mulligans. :F But we really can't go on this until we have a Basic list.

dmaster out.
 
Oh, I remember there being a link that was related to this....I don't know where it is now, though. =(

I think it would be something like:

4/60 + 4/59 + 4/58 + 4/57 + 4/56 + 4/55 + 4/54 + 4/53

No idea what that adds to....or even sure if this is correct, but that's my guess.
 
Here's two things that might help you:

http://www.geocities.com/indypokemon/starts.html

http://i28.tinypic.com/2hy71j.jpg

They're both quite helpful if you ask me.
 
Now that I think about, the article was written on Pojo somewhere and it was by Jason (whatever his last name is), the guy who won Worlds 2006 and 2008.
 
Oh yes, I did see that. He was talking about the Weezing/Typlosion deck, Liability. It's a very nice deck, and a very nice article. I like the things I found earlier, because I don't like all the math.
 
ESP said:
Here's two things that might help you:

http://www.geocities.com/indypokemon/starts.html

http://i28.tinypic.com/2hy71j.jpg

They're both quite helpful if you ask me.

The calculator is experimental, but with enough trials, it should be nearly correct. If you have good starters as "4" and bad starters as "56" (to prevent mulligan) you get about 40%, which is about what the chart predicts. So it is probably accurate.



Blue Thunder said:
Oh, I remember there being a link that was related to this...I don't know where it is now, though. =(

I think it would be something like:

4/60 + 4/59 + 4/58 + 4/57 + 4/56 + 4/55 + 4/54 + 4/53

No idea what that adds to...or even sure if this is correct, but that's my guess.

That would give you a 49% chance of sableye draw. A little different than the chart, but the logic makes sense. Something is wrong somewhere, though.
 
At first I started out doing all that 60 choose 7 stuff, trying to act smart with all the college probability stuff I pretended to pay attention to, but really, Like dmaster said, it depends on the number of basics, because the more basics in your decks, the less chance you have of getting a Sableye or a mulligan.

But theoretically, I think this works:

****If you're not very mathy, or haven't studied Discrete Mathematics or Probability and Statistics yet, jump to the end of this post.*****

I will use C(n,r) to denote "n choose r," which of course equals n!/r!(n-r)!

The best way to approach this is to abuse the concept of complements of probability. First of all, let's take a look at the probability of not getting a Sableye at all, regardless of the other cards in your deck:

C(4,0)C(56,7)
------------- = 0.6005
C(60,7)


So, you have a 60% chance of not getting a Sableye in a seven-card hand, which conversely means that you have a 40% chance of starting with at least one Sableye in your hand. This also says that if your 4 Sableye are the only basic Pokemon in your deck, you have a 60% of getting a mulligan XD

Now what this doesn't factor in is the chance you have of getting another basic Pokemon instead of Sableye. To figure that, let's let b denote the total number of basic Pokemon in your deck (including Sableye). Then to determine the chance of getting a mulligan, you would do the following:

C(b,0)C(60-b,7)
----------------
C(60,7)

As an example, let's say your deck has 12 basic Pokemon. Then by the above formula, you have about a 19% chance of getting a mulligan, which conversely means you have an 81% chance of drawing a basic in your starting hand. Pretty good, right?

Now coming back to Sableye, let's say that 4 of those 12 basics are Sableye. Now, there's probably an easier way to do this, but this is how it makes the most sense in my head. Out of that 81% chance of drawing a basic, take out the combinations in which there are no Sableye.

P(no Sableye, but have basics) =

[Summation from x = 1 to 7 of C(4,0)C(12-4,x)C(48,7-x)]
------------------------------------------------------- = 0.409854
C(60,7)

This means that out of the 81% chance that you will start with a basic, there is a 41% chance that a Sableye will not be in that hand. Therefore, in conclusion, there is a 40% chance that you will have a Sableye start with 4 Sableye and 8 other basics, which is the same probability we came up with in our first calculation.

*****************************************************************************************************

So for those who skipped over the above math stuff, to answer his question in the most simplest of terms, if you have 4 of any card in your deck, you have a 40% chance of drawing it in your initial 7 cards. But this is very misleading.

If your only basic Pokemon are your 4 Sableye, then you have
- a 60% chance of getting a mulligan.
- a 100% chance of getting at least one Sableye if you don't mulligan.

Whereas if you had 4 Sableye and 8 other basic Pokemon, you would have
- only a 19% chance of getting a mulligan.
- a 59% chance of getting at least one Sableye if you don't mulligan.

See the difference? Obviously, the more basic Pokemon you have in your deck, the less chance you have of getting a true "Sableye start."

Interestingly enough, if of those 12 basic Pokemon you had 1 Unown G, you would have
- about a 12% chance of having Unown G in your starting hand.
- about a 3% chance of it being the only basic Pokemon in your hand!
- LOL, srsly

If anyone is interested, I can post formulas for figuring these stats out. :)





Heh, that post took so long to come up with, I didn't see the two posts above me :p But yeah, same thing as above.
 
ESP said:
Oh yes, I did see that. He was talking about the Weezing/Typlosion deck, Liability. It's a very nice deck, and a very nice article. I like the things I found earlier, because I don't like all the math.

No, Ness didn't do an article on that, you're probably thinking of some other guy.

Yeah, Ness did do an article similar, but it was on the probability of starting with a certain card and to work it out you needed the other basics in the deck.
 
amisheskimoninja, please be sure to post something that contributes to the thread's topic/discussion. In this case, your post has nothing to do with the topic, so it is considered spam. Spamming happens to be against the rules; I suggest you read them.
 
imacharizard333 said:
Wait... don't you need the Special Dark energy too?
To donk 50 hp Pokemon? Yes. Normally, just doing the 40 for one is "donky" enough.
 
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