PTCG Live Will Make It Insanely Affordable to Build Pokemon TCG Decks!

This is also a personal peeve, but holy ****, the UI and the avatars are butt-ugly. I wasn't expecting Master Duel-standards of graphics and music, but it's like they put as little of an effort as they could.

Also this. And not to mention how basic user experience stuff that was already figured out in the old client are suddenly absent from the new one. For instance, why the effing heck do you have to drag and drop everything instead of just clicking? Why in hell does the mouse wheel doesn't work when you're looking through your deck, etc, etc... Doesn't make any freaking sense.
 
Also this. And not to mention how basic user experience stuff that was already figured out in the old client are suddenly absent from the new one. For instance, why the effing heck do you have to drag and drop everything instead of just clicking? Why in hell does the mouse wheel doesn't work when you're looking through your deck, etc, etc... Doesn't make any freaking sense.

This is my main issue right now, the UX in the old client was a lot better with double clicking, right clicking out of menus and just general ease of navigation when you're playing. Hopefully they'll improve on it over the beta, and have an option for faster animations.
 
We need a popular fan client that just gives all cards for free, since it seems like many people are very upset that a for-profit company likes to profit...

The early easy grind is usually the result of early resources being thrown at you, not price hikes after the fact.
 
Ugh... I'm already not liking what I'm seeing here.
The credits conversion table
It looks okay at a glance but other factors (that I'll bring up later) make me hold off on saying that it's good. I'm also bothered by the lack of concrete numbers for the amount of credits we get for dusting excess Full-Arts, Trainer Gallery cards, Rainbow Rares, Alt-Arts, Secret Rares, SV cards, and prerelease promos. The table also doesn't take Reverse/alternate Holos into account and that's even more worrying.

Also, this kind of explains why TPCi refused to give any sort of compensation for excess cards in a player's PTCGO collection when they transfer their accounts to PTCGL. It doesn't justify the lack of it though, TPCi could've just put a cap on it like they did for unopened packs.
As you can surmise, your credits will quickly add up as you open booster packs. You will be able to purchase any card that can be played, including even Tropical Beach! PTCGL will make the Pokemon TCG incredibly accessible to all players, regardless of their collections.
I find this hard to believe (and, like the above issue, I'll mention why later) and I also find that TPCi making an extremely-exclusive card like Tropical Beach accessable to everyone laughable. But in fairness I'll wait until BLW-era cards become available in the PTCGL to actually guffaw.
Players can also earn more credits through in-game activities, including the Battle Pass and daily quests.
Eh, I don't have that much of an issue with this since the PTCGO is in the same straights when it comes to getting currency.

And now for my biggest issue with the PTCGL, as reported by @datoneguy760 and @TheRainmaker...
Packs contain 5 cards each and only 400 codes of each set can be redeemed.
And there it is, there's the zarking rub. I expected TPCi to do something stupid with this transition but never expected it be like this. Way to shoot yourselves in the foot, TPCi! Unless this is actually a way to blatantly lie in a press release and bring IAPs into the game at a later date of course.

My inner optimist would normally say "It's just a beta, I'm sure this all be fixed by the time the app is released to the wider public!" but since this is all on TPCi's end the reality is that this very likely won't get fixed, especially when you take into account the amount of people on social media saying they're super excited for this big change and they can't wait for this to come out. What a bunch of dunderheads.
I would personally refrain from saying "Oh wow this system is actually good" when it's very well known that CCG app systems are generous at the start and then it's much, much harder to accumulate resources.

Feels like some people are starting to hit roadblocks after building a single meta deck or attempting to build one from zero resources, which fits in with how card-game apps are designed nowadays...

This is also a personal peeve, but holy ****, the UI and the avatars are butt-ugly. I wasn't expecting Master Duel-standards of graphics and music, but it's like they put as little of an effort as they could.
This is a TPCi-funded venture, cutting down on effort and penny-pinching is to be expected at this point.
Also this. And not to mention how basic user experience stuff that was already figured out in the old client are suddenly absent from the new one. For instance, why the effing heck do you have to drag and drop everything instead of just clicking? Why in hell does the mouse wheel doesn't work when you're looking through your deck, etc, etc... Doesn't make any freaking sense.
I have a feeling that the PTCGL was made for phones first and TPCi realized that they'll need to make a desktop version just to keep a certain set of players in the game.
 
We need a popular fan client that just gives all cards for free, since it seems like many people are very upset that a for-profit company likes to profit...

The early easy grind is usually the result of early resources being thrown at you, not price hikes after the fact.

Nice reductio ad absurdum. Next.
 
Extra copies don't get transferred though, so you'd be wasting a lot of potential credits by opening now.
Well they wont stay in the live game as well. Basically I say open them and get the 10 cards now. And that way when you transfer you will have more cards to credit towards.
 
We need a popular fan client that just gives all cards for free, since it seems like many people are very upset that a for-profit company likes to profit...
Pretty sure that’s just Table Top Sim. Problem is, tournaments on Limitless or official online tournaments will take place in the client. Which will suck when people realize that these “mobile game” models are designed to maximize money from whales, at the cost of losing money from normal players.

People think hideous UI is some sort of accident. It’s not. It’s just another hallmark of mobile game development: produce it cheaply and quickly. The user experience is irrelevant.
 
it seems like many people are very upset that a for-profit company likes to profit...
This is always the most hilarious excuse for making garbage. Games like Hearthstone are also for-profit (to a fault), but they are also objectively fun and artistic, with creative visuals, sound design, aesthetic, and clever UIs. This client is a soulless mobile cash grab, ZERO effort went in to making it a good product in itself.

Every so often I’ll be reminded that video games are actually fun. Inscription, Hollow Knight, Outer Wilds, etc. blow me away with just how HUMAN they are in their design. Don’t be baited into accepting this, especially not from the biggest franchise on earth. They can do better.
 
Things in its current state are looking grim. Right now, you can buy codes and easily build what you want, despite what everyone keeps saying (it's like I live in a parallel universe where having to look for a card in trades is considered "hard stuff", it's clunky at worst). I don't know how the droprates will be in those packs (Brazil packs don't come with a guaranteed rare btw, you can get boosters with nothing but commons and uncommons, don't know if that will be the case as well for those ptcgl 5 card packs), but even if you go like all-in on a set and get to the maximum 400 packs, I doubt you'll get to 5ths and beyond on higher rarity cards, so it will all depend o how much commons and uncommons will give you credit so you can buy the rares and up that you actually want. And I just realized now...that's probably why they made the pack smaller and with less commons and cards overall, they knew that you would probably get a lot of credits from those....things looking shady already.
The 400 limit is beyond stupid. I've opened 2 cases of sets before and you definitely do not get playsets of every card you need. Considering you can't manually convert cards into credits/dust/whatever either, it's a huge screw-up on Pokemon's end honestly. Went from wanting to go all in on this game to...probably not even wanting to give it my time of day.
 
This is always the most hilarious excuse for making garbage. Games like Hearthstone are also for-profit (to a fault), but they are also objectively fun and artistic, with creative visuals, sound design, aesthetic, and clever UIs. This client is a soulless mobile cash grab, ZERO effort went in to making it a good product in itself.

Every so often I’ll be reminded that video games are actually fun. Inscription, Hollow Knight, Outer Wilds, etc. blow me away with just how HUMAN they are in their design. Don’t be baited into accepting this, especially not from the biggest franchise on earth. They can do better.
I'm not talking about the UI. That is bad. I'm talking more about the fact that people seem upset that you have to grind to be completely F2P.

Well, at least the outrage might spawn a truly free fan alternative that gets popular.

Also, I hate the "biggest IP on Earth" argument, though mainly due to people using it for the main games. Yes, it is, and that's why nobody complains about the merchandise. That's where like 70% of the money comes from, so it's where 70% of the effort goes.
 
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I'm not talking about the UI. That is bad. I'm talking more about the fact that people seem upset that you have to grind to be completely F2P.
Well, the obvious question is: what’s an acceptable balance? I’m skeptical of F2P models because I believe they’re designed to get you to functionally spend more money than you should have to on digital, aka non-existent, products (which can be taken away at anytime by the company, leaving you with nothing, unlike physical product). This is leaving aside the ethics of physical trading cards, which I’m also skeptical about. I will also say, the way Pokemon approaches “being for-profit” is concretely demonstrated by the UI; the UI is the way it is BECAUSE of the way Pokémon approaches profit. It gets complex to say specifically how things should be (are we getting “ripped off”? What does it mean to get ripped off in this context?), but it’s simple to point out the areas that are clearly lacking and problematic.

For example, let’s say the f2p is too grindy. That is, it requires you to login everyday, spend a lot of time on it everyday, and otherwise makes having fun difficult. Ok, so you spend some money. How far does that money go? In mobile games, it doesn’t go very far. Mobile games largely want to suck you back into grinding because grinding ingrains the game into your routine. Eventually you’ll be playing because you don’t want to “miss out” of any timed events or windows, even when you aren’t having fun. A sunk-cost fallacy will begin where you pay money because you’ve already spend so much time, but that money burns out quickly so you spend more time, then more money, etc.. “Fun” eventually isn’t a factor once it’s become a way of life. It’s automatic at that point.

If you think I’m crazy, and that mobile developers aren’t trying to create this psychological dependence in their audience, I have some developer conferences on YouTube to show you…

Obviously trading offers an escape from the loop, which is why it was a kind of healthy integrity that I valued in PTCGO. Throwing that away and replacing it with this tried-and-true mobile game design is no coincidence. To be sure, being addicting because it’s fun and artistic isn’t unethical. But mobile games use an inorganic method of achieving addiction with “fun and artistic” being as cheap and minimal as possible. And that really sucks, because it means they really don’t care about the game in itself, nor the people who play it.
 
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I have never really played PTCGO, but wanted to try Live out with some card codes I had laying around. It looks like, at least right now, if you redeem codes from two (or more) different expansions in the same instance, you will receive nothing (but the codes will still be 'consumed'). So try to submit them as separate batches.
 
Well, the obvious question is: what’s an acceptable balance? I’m skeptical of F2P models because I believe they’re designed to get you to functionally spend more money than you should have to on digital, aka non-existent, products (which can be taken away at anytime by the company, leaving you with nothing, unlike physical product). This is leaving aside the ethics of physical trading cards, which I’m also skeptical about. I will also say, the way Pokemon approaches “being for-profit” is concretely demonstrated by the UI; the UI is the way it is BECAUSE of the way Pokémon approaches profit. It gets complex to say specifically how things should be (are we getting “ripped off”? What does it mean to get ripped off in this context?), but it’s simple to point out the areas that are clearly lacking and problematic.

For example, let’s say the f2p is too grindy. That is, it requires you to login everyday, spend a lot of time on it everyday, and otherwise makes having fun difficult. Ok, so you spend some money. How far does that money go? In mobile games, it doesn’t go very far. Mobile games largely want to suck you back into grinding because grinding ingrains the game into your routine. Eventually you’ll be playing because you don’t want to “miss out” of any timed events or windows, even when you aren’t having fun. A sunk-cost fallacy will begin where you pay money because you’ve already spend so much time, but that money burns out quickly so you spend more time, then more money, etc.. “Fun” eventually isn’t a factor once it’s become a way of life. It’s automatic at that point.

If you think I’m crazy, and that mobile developers aren’t trying to create this psychological dependence in their audience, I have some developer conferences on YouTube to show you…

Obviously trading offers an escape from the loop, which is why it was a kind of healthy integrity that I valued in PTCGO. Throwing that away and replacing it with this tried-and-true mobile game design is no coincidence. To be sure, being addicting because it’s fun and artistic isn’t unethical. But mobile games use an inorganic method of achieving addiction with “fun and artistic” being as cheap and minimal as possible. And that really sucks, because it means they really don’t care about the game in itself, nor the people who play it.
I haven't played PTCGO much in the past 2 years because of how expensive trading gets, so I'm not sure I agree there. Also, you're just assuming it'll be worse in the long run less than 24 hours in. The trade system is definitely better on the low-end, but on the high-end you can start out with enough credit for 10 meta-decks for less than the cost of one Mew VMAX deck
 
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I haven't played PTCGO much in the past 2 years because of how expensive trading gets, so I'm not sure I agree there. Also, you're just assuming it'll be worse in the long run less than 24 hours in.
PTCGO wasn’t perfect, and I have a lot of criticisms of it. Trading didn’t make it somehow a good system by itself; I’m just saying that it was mechanically not a part of the “mobile model.” If you couldn’t afford to play PTCGO, it’s likely you will feel more welcome by Live but the drop off will be harder. There’s a compromise that could lead to a great game in there; we won’t ever see it though.

I know in judging it early, and I hate being a negative Nancy, but it’s not trying anything new. We know how these models work, every mobile game works this way.
 
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PTCGO wasn’t perfect, and I have a lot of criticisms of it. Trading didn’t make it somehow a good system by itself; I’m just saying that it was mechanically not a part of the “mobile model.” If you couldn’t afford to play PTCGO, it’s likely you will feel more welcome by Live but the drop off will be harder. There’s a compromise that could lead to a great game in there; we won’t ever see it though.

I know in judging it early, but it’s not trying anything new. We know how these models work, every mobile game works this way.
All of those other mobile games have direct monetization. That alone makes this a different model. I understand being cautious, but some of you are just angry that we didn't just get PTCGO with Master Duel graphics.

Again, I hope at the end of the day we get a true fanmade alternative so everyone can be happy (I guess except those who loved trading for the novelty).
 
All of those other mobile games have direct monetization. That alone makes this a different model. I understand being cautious, but some of you are just angry that we didn't just get PTCGO with Master Duel graphics.

Again, I hope at the end of the day we get a true fanmade alternative so everyone can be happy (I guess except those who loved trading for the novelty).
We could have a perfect fan made alternative but it wouldn’t matter so long as limitless and the official company don’t use it for tournaments. I say that because we already have had alternatives in the past, like TCGOne and tabletop sim. They take a lot of effort to make and they aren’t easy to use but people are incentivized not to use them regardless because of this. Just saying.
 
We could have a perfect fan made alternative but it wouldn’t matter so long as limitless and the official company don’t use it for tournaments. I say that because we already have had alternatives in the past, like TCGOne and tabletop sim. They take a lot of effort to make and they aren’t easy to use but people are incentivized not to use them regardless because of this. Just saying.
TPCi never used PTCGO for official tournaments before the pandemic either.

I'm not really sure what you want, though. That's what's annoying me about most of this really. There's no real constructive criticism; just "this looks like gacha and gacha bad so this bad."
 
TPCi never used PTCGO for official tournaments before the pandemic either.

I'm not really sure what you want, though. That's what's annoying me about most of this really. There's no real constructive criticism; just "this looks like gacha and gacha bad so this bad."

But there's constructive criticism lol. You have Master Duel right there. Hearthstone too. They don't have to do everything exactly the same, but why not take inspiration on games that have already been praised and shown to work? There's a level of care that should be taken when you are offering a product to a consumer, no matter if it's "free".

The criticisms are valid and are multiple, and the fact that the beta doesn't even have a questionnaire or a way for TPCi to receive player's feedback is concerning. You can't just say "WELL BUT IT'S A FREE GAME AND THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO GIVE YOU ANYTHING" because I may as well say "Ok I won't play your game" and at the end of the day that's something a company should be avoiding, otherwise how exactly are they expecting their app to have any sort of success?
 
But there's constructive criticism lol. You have Master Duel right there. Hearthstone too. They don't have to do everything exactly the same, but why not take inspiration on games that have already been praised and shown to work? There's a level of care that should be taken when you are offering a product to a consumer, no matter if it's "free".

The criticisms are valid and are multiple, and the fact that the beta doesn't even have a questionnaire or a way for TPCi to receive player's feedback is concerning. You can't just say "WELL BUT IT'S A FREE GAME AND THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO GIVE YOU ANYTHING" because I may as well say "Ok I won't play your game" and at the end of the day that's something a company should be avoiding, otherwise how exactly are they expecting their app to have any sort of success?
We're talking about obtaining cards. Again, I agree that the UI is bad and they should have done better (though I don't necessarily want such a flashy app for the sake of it). Please read the conversation before replying.
 
We're talking about obtaining cards. Again, I agree that the UI is bad and they should have done better (though I don't necessarily want such a flashy app for the sake of it). Please read the conversation before replying.
And I'm talking about that too, maybe read my previous posts before dismissing them. There's a delicate balance between profit and unbalanced resource drip that forces players to buy resources. This is something problematic given that some social media personalities are praising the app for "not having microtransactions" when those microtransactions are sometimes the only way players around the world are able to get resources for their accounts - not everyone has stores with codes available near them. Old PTCGO was already bad regarding the slow drip of resources, but the trading aspect significantly sped up player progress because decks were significantly cheaper than the value that they currently have in TCG Live. The number of resources you have to invest to get a meta deck are outrageous with how many little resources they are giving you. Microtransactions are not the devil as long as they're properly priced and allow players to reduce the time spent farming and getting resources instead of actually playing the game.
 
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