Racing to Stage 2

[megamonk4]

Hi everyone. Lately, I've been thinking about ways to push for stage 2 Pokémon as soon as possible despite the strength of EX Pokémon (or megas), and to an extent stage 1s. I'm not a vet or long-time player by any means, but from the games I've played on tcgone.net using a few stage 2s, I feel like it is possible to take out some of the stronger decks in the metagame.
I'm a big fan of Dragonite (ROS 52) and I've made a deck to try and prioritize pushing it out as soon as possible(XY-On).
Decklist:

Pokémon 17:
4 Dratini
4 Dragonair
3 Dragonite ROS52
2 Eevee
2 Leafeon
2 Shaymin-EX

Trainers 31:
4 Paint Roller
4 Ultra Ball
4 VS Seeker
4 Wally
2 Professor Sycamore
2 Professor Birch's Observations
2 Switch
2 Battle Compressor
2 Head Ringer
2 Muscle Band
1 Xerosic
1 Lysandre
1 Escape Rope

Energy 12:
5 Grass Energy
3 Lightning Energy
4 Double Dragon Energy

I know the deck may have flaws with consistency with first turn, but that's why I wanted to discuss this and possibly any other future stage 2 decks.
Turn 1 I prefer to have to have a Dratini, Wally, and Dragonite in hand. At the very least Dratini and Wally to evolve and get Dragonite in play on turn 2.

While attempting to evolve through Wally, the main means of draw acceleration should be through Shaymin-EX.

2 Professor Sycamore and 2 Professor Birch, because they are used as draw acceleration mid-game or if I have no play in hand.

Leafeon is a tech mainly against Seismitoad-EX to prevent item lock.

2 Battle Compressor to get more consistency from other cards once Dragonite is set up.

4 Paint Roller to stop stadium cards. my deck really doesn't benefit from most anyways.

Prioritizing using Wally first and having correct cards to accelerate through deck should have any stage 2 set up and ready to attack by turn 2 or turn 3.

I guess the next issue besides getting it up as soon as possible is having the power to take out a pokemon-EX without getting the stage 2 OHKO'd by pokemon that deals 140+.

 

[bbninjas]

I think you're on the right track in delving in improving evolved Pokemon's viability. I think in a format where lots of Basic Ability draw is evident, non-draw supporters such as Wally are actually viable. Unfortunately, I reckon the main problem with Stage 2s is that they are simply not powerful enough for the amount of energy it costs. Take Dragonite for an example. It will take 3-5 turns to actually power up, due to its huge energy cost. Considering nearly any competitive Pokemon will be setting up 1-hit KOs before you do, there will be much difficulty actually doing something. However, I reckon there are a few ways to get around this.

Robo Substitute: I honestly can image Robo Subs working quite well, and only because of the prevalence of Item Locks are they not used overly much. However, considering more often that not a Stage 2 will fall to an Item Lock, I think adding this will amplify the positives more so than the negatives. Simply put this up early on and endeavor to power up your Stages on the bench. You could perhaps try and run your opponent dry of VS Seekers and Lysandre in the process, although this is obviously not ideal. The primary negative of this is that your opponent gets to set up at an equal or perhaps faster rate than you do.

EXP Share: One of the primary problems with Stages is the fact that they have notoriously high energy costs. I think that there are cases where one can substitute a Muscle Band over EXP Share to stream Stages as much as possible. One could even run Tool Retriever, although this will definitely hurt the consistency.

Wallys, Level Balls and Ultra Balls: With a reintroduction of Level Ball and the addition of Wally, Stages have more search power than ever before. I think that these decks need 3 Wally, 3 Level Ball and 3 Ultra Ball for a consistent run, although this line certainly needs testing.

In Expanded; Tropical Beach: It's expensive but it is also a great Stadium for Stage decks, as it allows a complete hand refresh to allow more stream.

In Standard; Training Center: Honestly, this was made with Stages in mind. Adding 30 HP can cause your 160 monsters to have 190, which is 10 above that magic number. This causes decks to have an increase struggle in 1-hit KOing you (more so with Hard Charms) which could make up for either low damage or chance to take 4 prizes per setup instead of just 2.

Shaymin-EX and Unown: It is vital in evolution decks to be able to consistently stream Pokemon. With Shaymin and Unown, players can bring out more basics on the first turn, which is particularly vital.

Pokemon Fan Club (Bridgette in the future): Many people undermine the power of the Pokemon Fan Club. Bringing out two (or three with Bridgette once the upcoming set has been released) more basics can be huge, especially with things like Shaymin which can turn Fan Club into powerful draw. You can also bring out a couple of extra Pokemon to evolve at a later time. I'd reckon this is better than Wally, which is probably more suited for use on your second turn.

Lysandre to Shaymin:
Shaymin is a ridiculously common card in most top decks, which can be 1-shotted by many Sages. Doing this three times will likely win you the game, however you'll need to make room for more Lysandre.

Head Ringer: This allows for an extra turn in many cases against EXs, despite its clutch, and thus is why I personally would try and make room for it in my stage deck.

In regards to your deck list, I notice a few things. First and foremostly, I notice Paint Roller. In many situations, this is a dead card, especially on your first turn. Saying there is no good stadium is actually false. I am actually a firm believer that a deck will benefit from any stadium, if not a specific, simply Skyfield. In a stage deck like Dragonite, I'd imagine Training Center as a particularly good way to keep Dragonite alive

I'd also remove 1 Switch and perhaps a 1-1 line of Leafeon to free up a bit more space for two more Shaymin and a couple of Exp Share and/or Robo Subs. I'd also remove two Wally to add two Fan Club, as in reality, you'll only set up Dragonite by Turn 3 anyways.

 

[megamonk4]

I think you're on the right track in delving in improving evolved Pokemon's viability. I think in a format where lots of Basic Ability draw is evident, non-draw supporters such as Wally are actually viable. Unfortunately, I reckon the main problem with Stage 2s is that they are simply not powerful enough for the amount of energy it costs. Take Dragonite for an example. It will take 3-5 turns to actually power up, due to its huge energy cost. Considering nearly any competitive Pokemon will be setting up 1-hit KOs before you do, there will be much difficulty actually doing something. However, I reckon there are a few ways to get around this.

Robo Substitute: I honestly can image Robo Subs working quite well, and only because of the prevalence of Item Locks are they not used overly much. However, considering more often that not a Stage 2 will fall to an Item Lock, I think adding this will amplify the positives more so than the negatives. Simply put this up early on and endeavor to power up your Stages on the bench. You could perhaps try and run your opponent dry of VS Seekers and Lysandre in the process, although this is obviously not ideal. The primary negative of this is that your opponent gets to set up at an equal or perhaps faster rate than you do.

EXP Share: One of the primary problems with Stages is the fact that they have notoriously high energy costs. I think that there are cases where one can substitute a Muscle Band over EXP Share to stream Stages as much as possible. One could even run Tool Retriever, although this will definitely hurt the consistency.

Wallys, Level Balls and Ultra Balls: With a reintroduction of Level Ball and the addition of Wally, Stages have more search power than ever before. I think that these decks need 3 Wally, 3 Level Ball and 3 Ultra Ball for a consistent run, although this line certainly needs testing.

In Expanded; Tropical Beach: It's expensive but it is also a great Stadium for Stage decks, as it allows a complete hand refresh to allow more stream.

In Standard; Training Center: Honestly, this was made with Stages in mind. Adding 30 HP can cause your 160 monsters to have 190, which is 10 above that magic number. This causes decks to have an increase struggle in 1-hit KOing you (more so with Hard Charms) which could make up for either low damage or chance to take 4 prizes per setup instead of just 2.

Shaymin-EX and Unown: It is vital in evolution decks to be able to consistently stream Pokemon. With Shaymin and Unown, players can bring out more basics on the first turn, which is particularly vital.

Pokemon Fan Club (Bridgette in the future): Many people undermine the power of the Pokemon Fan Club. Bringing out two (or three with Bridgette once the upcoming set has been released) more basics can be huge, especially with things like Shaymin which can turn Fan Club into powerful draw. You can also bring out a couple of extra Pokemon to evolve at a later time. I'd reckon this is better than Wally, which is probably more suited for use on your second turn.

Lysandre to Shaymin:
Shaymin is a ridiculously common card in most top decks, which can be 1-shotted by many Sages. Doing this three times will likely win you the game, however you'll need to make room for more Lysandre.

Head Ringer: This allows for an extra turn in many cases against EXs, despite its clutch, and thus is why I personally would try and make room for it in my stage deck.

In regards to your deck list, I notice a few things. First and foremostly, I notice Paint Roller. In many situations, this is a dead card, especially on your first turn. Saying there is no good stadium is actually false. I am actually a firm believer that a deck will benefit from any stadium, if not a specific, simply Skyfield. In a stage deck like Dragonite, I'd imagine Training Center as a particularly good way to keep Dragonite alive

I'd also remove 1 Switch and perhaps a 1-1 line of Leafeon to free up a bit more space for two more Shaymin and a couple of Exp Share and/or Robo Subs. I'd also remove two Wally to add two Fan Club, as in reality, you'll only set up Dragonite by Turn 3 anyways.

For a lot of stage 2 Pokemon, the earliest they can attack is turn 3, :/

Having level ball and pokemon fan club I feel is too much search for basic pokemon, so it should be to use one or the other. Level ball is an item that has the option to choose between the basic or evo, but can get item locked. Or Pokemon Fan Club to search for the 2 basic pokemon and use up the supporter for the turn.
I believe the better option would be to use Level Ball and play the basic/stage 1 card over using the supporter, when Shaymin-EX is the main draw acceleration.

And you're right about Paint Roller, I should at the very least use Training Center as it improves the HP levels to EX pokemon levels.

 

[SilverSilent]

For a lot of stage 2 Pokemon, the earliest they can attack is turn 3, :/

Having level ball and pokemon fan club I feel is too much search for basic pokemon, so it should be to use one or the other. Level ball is an item that has the option to choose between the basic or evo, but can get item locked. Or Pokemon Fan Club to search for the 2 basic pokemon and use up the supporter for the turn.
I believe the better option would be to use Level Ball and play the basic/stage 1 card over using the supporter, when Shaymin-EX is the main draw acceleration.

And you're right about Paint Roller, I should at the very least use Training Center as it improves the HP levels to EX pokemon levels.

It widely depends. I've made decks where Pokémon Fan Club and Balls were absolutely necessary. If you can accelerate quickly enough without your supporter cards but still need more power to get your bench set up, then Fan Club is for you, this doesn't mean you don't have to run Ultra and Level Balls at all. It only mean that you require a heavier amount of search cards to out setup your opponent. Don't forget that Wobbufett will be on the rise as well as Hex Maniac so Shaymin will be stunted a bit if you're not careful at all.