XY Re-Remakes of Red/Green

[Mitja]

With ORAS out of the way, the main game series has now got into a weird situation in regards to remakes.

When the first remakes FRLG came out in 2004 (gen III), the original RG were 8 years old.
After that, the logic was simple: next up were the next most outdated games (GSC, resulting in HGSS and then RSE resulting in ORAS).
But now that we had remakes of gen III, the most outdated games are not DP... but FRLG, because they came out in the same generation as the games ORAS are remakes of. In fact, FRLG are now 11 years old. Meaning the original remakes are now 3 years older than the originals were when the remakes first came out!

What happens when the most outdated games are themselves already remakes of outdated games?
Do they deserve another remake too? Why? Why not?

I mean, every single reason for why ORAS was "necessary" (Fairy type, Megas, special/physical split, gameplay and region in new graphics, wi-fi etc..) can be just as well be extrapolated for why Re-remakes of Red/Green would be in that sense "necessary".

Or do DP deserve to be remade next simply because they haven't had the chance yet?
Even though DP are more up-to-date with the special/physical split for example, whereas FRLG didn't even have that yet?

Which begs the question... what is the point of remakes in the first place?

IMO it has always been mostly just a nostalgia-milking-cashcow (for FRLG a big reason was also to make tons of old Pokémon available, but that was only a legit case for FRLG.)
And if profit is the main and deciding factor... wouldn't re-remakes of RBGY likely sell more than DPt remakes, hence be the more likely candidate?

---

Let me add, that I personally never liked the idea of remakes themselves. I'd rather want new stuff, or if it is old stuff, at least with enough fresh twists added for it to be worth a revisit... which so far all remakes failed to achieve for me... I would argue that apart from the Sevii-islands, HGSS and ORAS did not even put in slightly more effort than just the very least that was necessary for the games to be "finished" (Don't get me wrong I still enjoy the heck out of them like any of us, it's just that they could be better in lots of ways)

In other words, I would prefer no remakes in the first place (at least make them sequels instead), but since they're a cashcow and everyone is going to buy them anyway, they're pretty much inevitable...

I'm mostly just curious to how fans react to this topic. I have posed this topic on other sites and was surprised at people actually wanting RBGY-re-remakes to come out.

---

Also, discuss what would be different in Re-remakes of RedGreen from FRLG.
What would they be called?
Perhaps focus on the other 2 colors of RGBY to avoid confusion with FRLG...by calling them WaterBlue and ThunderYellow this time instead? Or just some fancier words than Fire and Leaf?
Put the Starters Mega evolutions on the covers?
That could be a bit boring though since we already know them. Since Charizard already has 2 Megas, maybe give Venusaur/Blastoise second ones and put those on the covers (if they were exotic enough like MegaZardX, they could even represent different colors)?

What about the post-game? More Sevii adventures?

Or should these games be sequels rather than re-remakes in the first place?
I know GS were kind of sequels to RGBY, but they were that in the sense of continuing the franchise, rather than expanding Kanto.

Or perhaps make it a Kanto-sequel with Johto in the post-game to already avoid the need of revisiting Johto anytime soon?

An expanded Kantodex this time so we don't need the "hmm it stopped evolving for no reason"-nonsense?

If it was a sequel.. how many years after FRLG would the story be? OR how many years earlier? To witness Mewtwos creation? Or see Cinabar blow up? Or have Cinabar include an explorable volcano by now?
Some kind of new forms for the legendary birds, maybe?


THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION OF WHAT GAME IS COMING NEXT (which is likely follow-up/closure/sequels for XY)


tl;dr:
Would you prefer revisiting Kanto before any other next remakes?
If there was a new Kanto game, would you prefer if it was a remake or a sequel?

 

[Cinesra]

I expect to return to Kanto in 2016 as it's the 20 year anniversary. I feel like with the two decade anniversary being a big deal and GF just wanting to mix thing up a bit means we can expect more than just a re-remake. Personally, I'm hoping to a GSC sequel set ~10 years in the future or whenever XY take place that starts in Kanto and has Johto as the post-game.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

I think enough has changed, not just within the series itself, but the way that remakes are even developed, to warrant another go at Kanto. Look at FRLG and ORAS. FRLG was mainly a copy/paste remake with an extra post game section tacked on, but did little to fix the actual game. ORAS, on the other hand, fleshed the game out much more and weren't afraid to make changes. It'd be interesting to see what Kanto looks like under this kind of approach because every iteration of Kanto is pretty plain and simple, so there's a lot to build on.

The biggest thing that they would probably build on is the storyline. None of the Kanto games have really had a good plot, it was always a generic "stop Team Rocket because they're the bad guys" sort of plot and never really went anywhere. Now would be a good time to give them more depth to their motives and make them more of a threat. Now they don't need to involve legendaries in the plot to make that work (and I would prefer that they didn't since legendaries have been involved in every plotline since 3rd gen), but they should have some sort of overarching plan that makes them feel like a regional or even a global threat. They should also create more characters and do more with the characters they already have. None of the major characters seem the least bit concerned that Team Rocket is running amok around the region. The gym leaders and Elite 4 don't set one foot outside of their respective facilities, Professor Oak doesn't leave his lab or do anything that isn't Pokedex related, and Blue is just a random jerk that doesn't care about anything but beating you. Hell, at this point I'd be happy just to have Leaf play the generic friendly rival to get some actual plot related interaction going. I'd also like to see some lore on the legendaries, include some of Mewtwo's lore from Origins and some new lore for the Bird trio.

One thing I'd also like to see that no other remakes have done so far is a significant regional dex expansion, and in this game it's especially important. Even if you were to throw in every cross gen evolution and Mega Evolution into the game, you still wouldn't have much to use against Psychic simply because there's so few of Psychic's counters in Kanto to begin with. There needs to be more Dark, Steel, Ghost, Dragon and Fairy types in the game to help fix some of these huge balance issues, and there has to be new families from future generations because otherwise there's not enough to work with and they'd be too rare and obscure for the little kiddies that the games are designed around to find.

I'd also like to see a bit more be done with the region design and some of the area layouts, as some of the maps have aged horribly being very plain, very flat, and some areas which are very short (Rt. 7, Rt. 16, and Rt. 18 are good examples). There's several other areas that I think they could redesign. Mt. Moon would be neat with a spiraling level design like Twist Mountain. Also, Cinnibar Island should have an actual volcano, which they can use to house Moltres (and then add a new lightning theme island on Rt. 19 to get a Pokemon the Movie 2000 setup going). Oh, and Saffron City is probably going to be expanded to Castelia/Lumiose/Mauville size. As for the Sevii Islands, I'd like to see them but I'm not very confident that they'll show up again, post game areas seem to be pretty low priority for them now if XY and ORAS are any indication.

Really, I'd prefer a full on sequel that can do even more for Kanto, but I doubt we'll get one unless there's some means to play the originals.

 

[xxashxx]

The only problem is they fixed everything on the FR/LG remakes minus the Wi-Fi features and when they made HG/SS that was basically the fix for Kanto which came out I think 4 years ago. True the 20th anniversary is next year so yes we could see that or we could see D/P/PL remakes before we have FR/LG remakes. Really weird on how they do things and remaking things over and over again.

 

[Scattered mind]

The fact that we already have Mega gen 1 starters and Mega Mewtwo plus the fact that the legandary birds were included in XY with Mewtwo ( In a cave much like in RGY) while up until now we don't have any Mega or Primal Gen4 legandary makes me think we are more likely to see DP remake. Also think about it. What brings more money? A remake of a remake of a nostalgic game or Mega Arceus ?
As for the 20 year anniversary they could simply make Pokemon Red and Blue available in the Eshop.

I would prefer gen4 remake over gen1 reremake
A sequel would be better for both.

 

[Mitja]

Well at the moment they're both likely out of question anyway. GF will want to bring the follow-up for XY next (every follow-up game so far has come within 2 years of the initial games), so at the very least I can see them pushing that to 2.5 years and have XY2 come out no later than early2016.

The question of DP-remakes/RG-reremakes/-sequels is more realistic for after gen 7 starts (so the Kanto influence on XY won't be a big deal anymore).

And still when it comes to "RG or DP", RG is more outdated and Kantos HGSS iteration is from the same gen as DP too, so they're both as outdated even if HGSS-Kanto is considered a proper Kanto game.

 

[CF1994]

I think sequels to FireRed/LeafGreen would be a smart decision to roll with.

As tempted as I am to see re-remakes, just so that I can truly experience Kanto, I feel it would be actually be kinda redundant, since the purpose of FRLG was to make several old Pokémon available in Gen III due to technical restraints that were beyond Game Freak's control in regards to transferring Pokémon all the way from Gen I.

An expanded plot and characterization for Team Rocket's high-ranking members, your Rival/Champion and more to do with the Sevii Islands would be the route to go. As established earlier in this thread, it would actually be interesting to have more lore with Mewtwo and the Legendary Bird Trio, even if the latter three were to have Megas.

 

[DuoForce]

Yellow Remake, that is what I want.

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

A remake of a remake, even if done by the anniversary, is simply too bad when it comes to show us what the creators want to do with the series and continue it another 10 (for example, maybe 100!) years. A remake of DP, while not bad, is from the 4th Gen...not very connected to the original release or even cameos or easter eggs to it. So, a total remake of Gen. I is what should be done, along with a new region introduced. Perhaps one released by the beggining of the year and other by the end. Despite the timing and paired or not versions, a total remake of Kanto is what might be best.

This remake would have to take into account LGFR's Sevii expansion but most importantly, include the Team Rocket Trio form Yellow and again, the Pokémon following you along with every single main feature introduced since the first (day/night, Berry fields, weather, seasons and characters customisation (skin tone & clothes). As for the regions included, if not other than Kanto, then expand the plot, like Bolt the Cat said, because right now the original plot isn't simply enough, more so for older fans like me that went through every step of evolution.

All this said and in all honesty, a major game with more than one region and a whole new Generation would be better, more so if Mega-Evolution is declared extinct, even if only in one region! Being Red will always be being Red, that child from 1999 who was indeed new to the world of Pokémon and had Team Rocket as the ultimate evil, prof. Oak as the helpful guy and Gary as that stinky jerk but aside from nostalgia...Origins covered it and somewhat filled my needs to see Red one more time so put him in the game but as the Champion and with an older look and have lots of cameos and easter eggs from Profs, and Rivals (except Barry!!!!), former evil team's leaders, Gym leaders, other E4 members, the Magikarp guy, Mr. Fuji, Mr. Briney, Bill, etc.

PS: Pokémon is Pocket Monsters and hence why (besides that Capsule Monster Ball concept) the game has mainly stayed on portable consoles and while I wish that, with the new console announced by Nintendo, I hope to see what Iwata said about a hybrid console, mixing home and portable. I'm not saying to move it to home consoles but at least use the potencial to have it as a bank for Pokémon storage, money, items, new battling modes.

 

[Teal]

Just no.

I have been to Kanto already six times (Red/Blue, Yellow, Gold/Silver, Crystal, FRLG, HGSS).

I'm very much okay with a Sinnoh remake / part 2 where you can visit Kanto after the story, though. Kanto just doesn't deserve another pair of games focused on it.

However, I would take the new region they hinted at in XY over any remakes any day.

 

[Athena]

I don't really think we'll be getting a remake of a remake. That's a big line to cross, and I don't think Pokémon there. If we get to revisit Kanto at all, it'll be in a new game.

As much as I would love it, I don't think a remake of Yellow is likely, either. The whole point of Yellow was to be based off the anime, and Ash and co. haven't been to Kanto in ages. If there were another anime-based game, it would only be Yellow-like in spirit and take place in whatever region the current generation is, since that's where Ash and Pikachu are chilling out.

If we were to revisit Kanto in any way, I would prefer to see it as a brand new game.

 

[Mr.Muffin]

Nintendo has really been harping on the whole Kanto Nostalgia. While I don't think we will see Super Hyper Ultra Fire Red and Leaf Green Alpha Arcade Edition we will see some kind of Kanto representation in the future games.

The thing that makes we wonder about the validity of them making a Kanto remake is the question "What could they add?" The only thing I could ask for would be the inclusion of the Orange Islands, or make a bridge to Johto.....

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

Oh, and Saffron City is probably going to be expanded to Castelia/Lumiose/Mauville size.

Please, no. In the first place, Castelia and Lumiose are not only big cities but, if I'm not mistaken, the biggest cities in the Pokémon world and like Trip said in the anime, Isshu has no comparison to Kanto when it comes to development and population. Kanto is like the countryside and isshu and Kalos the capitals of the Pokémon world.

Secondly, if Rustboro which is Hoenn biggest city was made shorter in ASOR (and in doing so ruined it completely), how do you expect to have Saffron reaching the size of either Castelia or Lumiose?

Also, before Saffron, there's even Jubilife city, so if Saffron would be the size of Castelia, imagine what Jubilife would be!!

As for Mauville, what happened to it in ASOR in terms of modernise it should have been applied on Rustboro instead, with skyscrappers and taller buildings, because Rustboro is like Celadon and Saffron, not Mauville.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

how about a game that has Kanto,Johto,Hoenn,Sinnoh,Unova,Kalos all in 1 game? it could be done with maybe having the cart be twice as long as to fit in all the necessary memory for such a thing

Do you have any idea how incredibly unrealistic this is? They can barely handle 2 regions in one game, let alone 6. And that was before we went to 3D and they started cutting corners in the game design.

The thing that makes we wonder about the validity of them making a Kanto remake is the question "What could they add?" The only thing I could ask for would be the inclusion of the Orange Islands, or make a bridge to Johto....

Actually, in the real life Kanto region in Japan, there is one prefecture of Kanto that is unrepresented in Pokemon's Kanto, the Tochigi Prefecture, located directly north of the existing areas of Pokemon Kanto. So I was thinking if they were to make a sequel or some other type of new game in Kanto, they could have a new path that continues north from Rt. 25 and loops around to Mt. Moon. As for what kinds of areas, it seems to be a very mountainous area with ski resorts, hot springs, and religious shrines and temples, so it would probably be very mountainous, include a snow route, and probably have a connection to Johto.

Please, no. In the first place, Castelia and Lumiose are not only big cities but, if I'm not mistaken, the biggest cities in the Pokémon world and like Trip said in the anime, Isshu has no comparison to Kanto when it comes to development and population. Kanto is like the countryside and isshu and Kalos the capitals of the Pokémon world.

The anime is hardly a good basis for that sort of thing, they can always change what the biggest cities are supposed to be. Really, with all of the tall building everywhere Castelia/Lumiose size seems to be where they wanted to go with Saffron in the first place but couldn't because of technical limitations.

Also, before Saffron, there's even Jubilife city, so if Saffron would be the size of Castelia, imagine what Jubilife would be!!

They can take some liberties on size if they need to. But as far as which cities to make Castelia size, Tokyo, which is Saffron and Celadon combined, is about 3 times larger than all of New York, so that bodes well for Saffron's chances. Sapporo is all a huge city, about one and a half the size of New York, so I would imagine come DP remakes that would probably be Sinnoh's Castelia.

As for Mauville, what happened to it in ASOR in terms of modernisze it should have been applied on Rustboro instead, with skyscrappers and taller buildings, because Rustboro is like Celadon and Saffron, not Mauville.

They chose Mauville because it's in a central location, that's what it has in common with Castelia and Lumiose. There's really no good choice for Hoenn because none of the cities there really stand out more than others (size wise, Rustboro and Lilycove are both fairly large), but what they did at least made sense.

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

(...)

Please, no. In the first place, Castelia and Lumiose are not only big cities but, if I'm not mistaken, the biggest cities in the Pokémon world and like Trip said in the anime, Isshu has no comparison to Kanto when it comes to development and population. Kanto is like the countryside and isshu and Kalos the capitals of the Pokémon world.

The anime is hardly a good basis for that sort of thing, they can always change what the biggest cities are supposed to be. Really, with all of the tall building everywhere Castelia/Lumiose size seems to be where they wanted to go with Saffron in the first place but couldn't because of technical limitations.

Also, before Saffron, there's even Jubilife city, so if Saffron would be the size of Castelia, imagine what Jubilife would be!!

They can take some liberties on size if they need to. But as far as which cities to make Castelia size, Tokyo, which is Saffron and Celadon combined, is about 3 times larger than all of New York, so that bodes well for Saffron's chances. Sapporo is all a huge city, about one and a half the size of New York, so I would imagine come DP remakes that would probably be Sinnoh's Castelia.

As for Mauville, what happened to it in ASOR in terms of modernisze it should have been applied on Rustboro instead, with skyscrappers and taller buildings, because Rustboro is like Celadon and Saffron, not Mauville.

They chose Mauville because it's in a central location, that's what it has in common with Castelia and Lumiose. There's really no good choice for Hoenn because none of the cities there really stand out more than others (size wise, Rustboro and Lilycove are both fairly large), but what they did at least made sense.

While I can agree about the value of anime vs games comparison, I'm not sure if Castelia/Lumiose is what the creators wanted for Saffron because they could at least use even more taller building to fill the city than they did without the need for them to be entered. Also, while Saffron has some taller empty buildings, its houses are much like Pallet's style, instead of the squared ones in Celadon. Ans while in Goldenrod there were many cube style house, they were many in number and arranged in a chaotic way (somewhat like Rustboro) in order to show how big the city was, something that doesn't happen in Celadon and Saffron. You can say that Lumiose and Castelia are orderly in their presentation and hence proves that big cities can be "clean" in their street chart but let's not forget that in these examples that is to make things easier for players because otherwise it would be truly a chaos to find something.

While Tokyo may be Celadon and Saffron combined, if there was a comparison between the games and real life, I would say that Goldenrod is Tokyo, despite Tokyo being in the real Kanto region and Saffron's position on the games' map.

I can't agree on ASOR-Mauville's reason for its design. If urban modernisation were to take place in Hoenn, I bet that most people would pick Rustboro as the main city, because that's where the Devon Corporation is, with a lot of workers' houses, a Gym and a Trainers School. Mauville also has a Gym, a Game Corner and Rydel's shop but still, it isn't a major city like Rustboro. Instead, not only the creators made Mauville stand out, while they decreased Rustboro's size to a Saffron-like city, with only a tall building standing out in the middle of little houses. Lilycove would also deserve some improvement, just like Slateport, but then it would be like Veilstone, that mixes city houses with major stuff, in this case, the shipyard, the market, museums and art gallery, that is, a bustling city due to commerce but not a metropolis one!
Rustboro is the one most like Castelia while Mauville seems like Nimbasa and Lilycove & Slateport like Driftveil or the other way around because Hoenn came first.

PS: Btw, what you said about Saffron, Celadon and Tokyo made me realise that in a re-remake, Celadon and Saffron could indeed be combined due to population increase and having a taller ASOR-Mauville style, just like in the Japanese Sky-city project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_City_1000) and with ASOR-Mauville "hives" around but that would mean that not only smaller routes would have to be well expanded (in my idea, Route 7 would dissapear (with some patches of grass remaining like in Castelia) and the Underground would be something like Goldenrod's, with Route 8 underground entrance being eaten by Saffron's gate and so you could enter the city by the ground level or go underground with a whole new floor and coming up in the Celadon "district" of the city) but new locations - towns and cities - would have to be created because Kanto is just to small to justify a giant metropolis with RBY's plot and map size!
Oh yeah, and the Magnet train Station would be underground, just like it's in HGSS.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

Oh, I forgot to mention something.

Since the Delta Episode opened the door for event Pokemon to show up in the storyline, I want to see them take a similar approach to Mew and Mewtwo. Make Mew catchable in a post game story arc and really get into the details of Mewtwo's creation (Mr. Fuji and Team Rocket should play a role in this storyline as well, and maybe Professor Oak).

 

[Pikachu6319]

Personally I'm not sure that it would be a good idea for re-remakes. As it is one could say making remakes was kind of cheap to start with. But they sell, so...

Still I almost think DP/P remakes would be better. If they were to do a Kanto region one, especially for the 20th anniversary next year, it can't necessarily be a remake. In a lot of ways for what I'm seeing here it's more like a reimaging. How about gyms for each type of Pokémon? More intricate encounters with Team Rocket, maybe even fight Giovanni while has a Mewtwo? Event ways to catch Mew? Include some other 'region specific' Pokémon for balance and stuff? Sevii Islands, something like the Orange islands, to a reverse mini thing in Johto (also includes Team Rocket)? Postgame stories like we got in the last few games? Legendaries that lead to legendaries, like needing the three birds (possibly with mega evolutions) in order to catch Lugia and needing the three dogs to catch Ho-oh? Maybe a few new Pokémon, a couple dozen or so, just because. It could even be like an evolution for Lapras, a split evolution for Sandshrew, a split evolution for Graveler.

I remember in BW as you're getting ready for the final confrontation most of the gym leaders make a brief appearance to help the player get to the boss. Do the same thing leading up to the final confrontation with Giovanni.

 

[Klonoahedgehog]

Personally, while i'm not the biggest fan of Kanto with the 20th anniversary coming up i think this is the perfect time for a RBY re-remake.
I think since FRLG they've obviously gotten better at they're storytelling and that could help the Kanto story which really isn't a story at all.

The one thing that guarantees that this won't happen however is the fact that they've given enough Kanto Pokemon Mega's and there wouldn't be a selling point in these games at all.

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

Oh, I forgot to mention something.

Since the Delta Episode opened the door for event Pokemon to show up in the storyline, I want to see them take a similar approach to Mew and Mewtwo. Make Mew catchable in a post game story arc and really get into the details of Mewtwo's creation (Mr. Fuji and Team Rocket should play a role in this storyline as well, and maybe Professor Oak).

I certainly would like to play as an explorer somewhere in Guyana, going through a jungle setting (I'm getting tired of just seeing forests in Pokémon games), exploring ruins and perhaps meeting a tribe, then the cloning of Mew would be shown in sepia like those memories in B2/W2 and then we'd play as a Rocket grunt on direct orders from Giovanni!!

 

[SotS]

I would much rather have a Diamond and Pearl remake. I know that you've never been keen on the idea of re-doing things, and really you're right in that GameFreak are aware of just how cash-cow things are. But that's the charm for some. You want to see what these games you loved could have been if they were made today. I remember reading Nintendo Power, seeing the "amazing 3D windmills" that were being shown in screenshots. I also remember getting to those windmills months later when I got the game and being just as amazed. "It looks so COOL!" That was enough for my child-like mind to get excited. And while a remake wouldn't spark that adolescent excitement, I would love to see those windmills now, eight years later, as actual 3D models.

Unless they pull an ORAS and remove the windmills. Screw no Battle Frontier.

Past this was part of a separate post, so it will seem a bit disjointed:

I know that speeding up that sluggish battle system and KEEPING ALL PREVIOUS CONTENT would be enough to get me on board. There doesn't even have to be a major addition if you just... don't throw anything out. Add some Wi-Fi to the Underground, stick ORAS Super Secret Bases along with it, and apply the 3D coat.

And then make it New 3DS exclusive so that we can actually play Pokemon from GameFreak, in 3D, with more than fifteen frames a second