ReshiBoar EX vs. MagneBoar (After Next Destinies)

Which deck will be better?

  • Total voters
    30
A

alex

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Which do you guys think will turn out to be the better deck, MagneBoar or ReshiBoar?

Pros of MagneBoar:
  • Can easily KO EX's and anything else in only one hit
  • Built in drawpower
  • Can use Reshiram EX early game and switch into Magnezone
  • Only gives up one prize
  • Everything is easily searched out with Heavy Ball

Pros of ReshiBoar:
  • Easier to setup
  • Can use Victini and Eviolite to reduce the risk of recoil damage
  • Doesn't have to worry about energy usage
  • Can use SSU and Seeker to completely recover health, reloading energy back on with Emboar
  • With Rocky Helmet it can kill other EX's pretty easily

Which do you guys think will be better? I'm kinda on the line between them.
 
RE: ReshiBoar vs. MagneBoar (After Next Destinies)

What makes either of these decks better than Eelzone? Eelzone is the reason Magneboar is not played anymore. Reshiboar was outclassed by TyRam long ago, but Eelzone is superior to TyRam since it's more powerful and accelerates with Stage 1's. I don't see this changing.
 
RE: ReshiBoar vs. MagneBoar (After Next Destinies)

Celebi23 said:
What makes either of these decks better than Eelzone? Eelzone is the reason Magneboar is not played anymore. Reshiboar was outclassed by TyRam long ago, but Eelzone is superior to TyRam since it's more powerful and accelerates with Stage 1's. I don't see this changing.
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I just don't think that EelZone would be able to muster the 3-4 energy needed every turn in order to KO the pokemon it needs to. Also Heavy Ball makes it so you can have 1 card that can get everything you need, but you couldn't utilize it as much in EelZone. I may be wrong though, I have never played EelZone.
 
RE: ReshiBoar vs. MagneBoar (After Next Destinies)

How does Heavy Ball get everything? It doesn't get your basics, and it doesn't get Magneton. It's like PETM. It won't get play in Magneboar for sure. Reshiboar maybe, but it's not a relevant deck anymore.

Eelzone builds up energy on the field early-game so it can wreck the opponent late-game. It rarely goes from zero energy on the field to a Lost Burn.

Reshiboar is arguably easier to setup I guess. Lack of built-in draw hurts the deck a lot, and Ninetales is much less practical than Magnezone.

Why can't Magneboar use Victini? Not that it or Reshiram-EX is a good play, but still, what makes Reshiboar able to use it if Magneboar can't? The same applies to SSU/Seeker and Rocky Helmet, not that these cards are good plays in the deck.

You'd be crazy to try to play Reshiram-EX in a format that revolves around Mewtwo. So I'd vote for neither, honestly.
 
RE: ReshiBoar vs. MagneBoar (After Next Destinies)

Celebi23 said:
How does Heavy Ball get everything? It doesn't get your basics, and it doesn't get Magneton. It's like PETM. It won't get play in Magneboar for sure. Reshiboar maybe, but it's not a relevant deck anymore.
I don't see any reason whatsoever in this paragraph. Heavy Ball gets both Magnezone AND Emboar, making it so that you can immediately Rare Candy the turn after you play down a basic. It is also easily reused by Junk Arm. Also, if anything ReshiBoar would use it less than MagneBoar because the only evolved pokemon it needs is Emboar, while MagneBoar needs both Magnezone and Emboar.

Eelzone builds up energy on the field early-game so it can wreck the opponent late-game. It rarely goes from zero energy on the field to a Lost Burn.
But EXs will start putting on pressure early game (T2 onward, even T1 for Mewtwo), forcing you to KO them with energy that you do not have to spare.

Reshiboar is arguably easier to setup I guess. Lack of built-in draw hurts the deck a lot, and Ninetales is much less practical than Magnezone.
Lack of built in drawpower does not hurt a deck, it just makes it need to play more drawpower. That is why I put "built in drawpower" as a pro for Magnezone.

Why can't Magneboar use Victini? Not that it or Reshiram-EX is a good play, but still, what makes Reshiboar able to use it if Magneboar can't? The same applies to SSU/Seeker and Rocky Helmet, not that these cards are good plays in the deck.
MagneBoar can use Victini if it wanted to, but when I made a list I couldn't find room for it. I had Eviolite instead because it is more reliable. In short, MagneBoar just has a lack of room for all those techs. A deck can't have everything.

You'd be crazy to try to play Reshiram-EX in a format that revolves around Mewtwo. So I'd vote for neither, honestly.
Why, exactly? Reshiram OHKO's if you run Rocky Helmet (which you should). MagneBoar would just attack with Magnezone. Mewtwo would still need 5 energies to OHKO a fully charged Reshiram EX.
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Replies in bold.
 
RE: ReshiBoar vs. MagneBoar (After Next Destinies)

Why would you waste space on cards that only search two of your Pokémon? It would be like running a 1-1 line of Sunflora in a deck where the only other Grass type is a 2-2 Yanmega line. You might as well just run heavier Magnezone and Emboar lines. There's almost no situation where Heavy Ball is better than Ultra Ball or Pokémon Communication.

You say you haven't played Eelzone before, so why argue this? Whatever argument you make will be theorymon. I've gotten 11 Championship Points with the deck, so I have tested it plenty. ZPST puts pressure on you T1. That doesn't mean you can't build up energy. Just play smart, force them to attack with Zekrom, time things right, use N, etc...

Lack of Pokémon-based draw power is devastating in a deck. Did you play two years ago when Claydol was popular? In the DP-LA format, there was a deck called AMU, which had Uxie for built-in draw power and was an all-basic deck. A lot of players opted to run Cladyol (forcing them to add evolution search) just because it offered permanent draw in the form of a Pokémon, and took away your reliance on Supporters. That's why Magnezone is so good today. Run a line of Magnezone or run 11 draw supporters. A big reason a lot of players hate this format is because it's so luck-based. If you don't run Magnezone, your logic is basically, "hey, I guess I'll just shuffle my hand in and draw six cards. Maybe I'll get one of the cards I need."

Fine.

I believe people have told you Reshiram-EX won't get much play multiple times in the Mewtwo thread on 'gym. You refused to listen to anybody over there. So why should I try to explain it to you? Even if I made valid points, would you actually listen to me? You've been hyping these two decks for a long time now, would one person giving you reasons why they're not great plays actually make you rethink what deck you're going to play next format?
 
RE: ReshiBoar vs. MagneBoar (After Next Destinies)

alexmf2 said:
Your not giving valid points, your just saying EelZone is better. Let me name some decks that don't have built in draw power: The Truth (won worlds). Reshiphlosion (won worlds and quite a bit of tournaments). ZPST (won a ton of tournaments). Those are just a few. Heavy Ball gives you the only 2 Pokemon not easily searched out with a single card. These two pokemon are the most important in the entire deck. Saying 'just run thicker lines' would add only that small chance you mentioned of drawing into that card, but with Heavy Ball it is much easier to get them and is even reusable Junk Arm.
Click to expand...
... What? Have I really been that out-of-touch with the game? :p

If you do a Ctrl+F on my last post, nowhere do I say the words, "Eelzone is better." But if my points are invalid, give me reasons why they are invalid. I'm giving you reasons why I believe your opinion is flawed, and you haven't argued half those reasons. Besides, I'm not just saying Eelzone is better. I'm giving reasons why the two decks you list are not good plays. And then I'm saying why Eelzone is a better play. Because that's what this thread is about - these two decks and whether or not they will be good plays next format. No?

Truth is different for one reason: it has Twins. Twins lets you avoid the shuffle draw cards other decks are cursed to rely on. It also has 'Beach, which can be searched through Twins, although it's nowhere close to what Magnezone is, since it's not a Pokémon.

Reshiphlosion has Ninetales. In that deck, Ninetales is practical, since Typhlosion gets energy directly from the discard. No need for Energy Retrieval/Fisherman.

ZPST is no exception to this rule. It often gets dead hands or hands clogged with supporters. That doesn't mean it's not viable. It just means it has a huge deadweight on it.

It's hard to make an argument for Magnezone and Emboar being two two most important cards in the deck. They would serve no purpose in the deck if their basics weren't there. The basics could still be played if Magnezone and Emboar were removed. That's why every deck runs 8+ cards to search their basics, but only 4-5 cards to search the evolutions. Heavy Ball is useless in an opening hand unless you have Rare Candy. Hence, it's very situational. That's why Engineer is also a bad card. It's too situational, even though it's the strongest straight draw supporter in the format. Pokémon Communication is not as situational since it can be used to get any Pokémon in the deck, and it searches Magnezone and Emboar almost as easily as Heavy Ball does.

Furthermore, after the first Magnezone hits the field, there is very little need for Pokémon search cards, since he can just draw a lot of the cards you need for you. You wouldn't ever really need to Junk Arm for Heavy Ball.

Edit- what just happened?...
 
RE: ReshiBoar vs. MagneBoar (After Next Destinies)

I didn't know Magneboar was still a viable deck? If catcher wasn't in the format I'd probably say yes, but ReshiBoar is much easier to get set up and is more consistent. And I'm assuming the OP is referring to ReshiBoar EX? Im already working on a list for when ND releases, but I think it will do really well.

And on another note, I haven't tested yet, but I think Heavy Ball will work for ReshiBoar EX. Yea you can't search for Tepigs but you can search for Pignite, Emboar, and Reshi EX which is great and you can still use Collector or Communication in the same turn if you do need a Tepig. I think Ultra Ball will be more suited for ReshiPhlosion EX, but it'd probably work fine for Emboar variants too.
 
RE: ReshiBoar vs. MagneBoar (After Next Destinies)

Ah, if I were to have to pick between the two, I would have to say that Magnezone would be the better play with Emboar. The ability to hit any KO in the format is beautiful, and the built in draw is actually going to make your step up faster than Emboar with Reshiram EX, despite the fact you are playing 2 stage 2 lines. Plus, with Magneboar, you have the ability to play a Reshiram EX as a tech if you want.

For the record, I think you should mention Reshiram EX with Emboar, as opposed to Reshiboar in the OP, it confused me when I voted on the pull, thought you meant Reshiram Black and White until I read most the thread. Heavy Ball is kinda trashy in Magneboar, I agree with Celebi23. I also agree the Magnezone Eels is a better play, but that is not the point of this thread.
 
RE: ReshiBoar vs. MagneBoar (After Next Destinies)

Yeah, I probably got a little carried away there... Although imo a thread about Reshiboar and Magneboar should be used to discuss the viability of said decks. Because if they aren't viable, what's the point of discussing them competitively? Anyway, Magneboar has always been a better play than Reshiboar. Reshiram EX is rather unreliable, even with Victini. It also takes forever to charge up and tends to be defenseless against Mewtwo.

Magnezone, on the other hand, is a very reliable card. When paired with Emboar, it can give Mewtwo a pretty big headache. The issue is when you play against any deck with a powerful T1-2. So it's still important to run regular Reshirams. David and Harrison have both proven how effective the two cards can be when paired together. However, the deck is inconsistent and outdated compared to Magneel.
 
Ok, I guess I see the reasoning with Heavy Ball, but I think at least 1 would still be a good play to be Junk Armed for. I also added the "EX" to Reshiboar. I just realized, with Magnezone and Zekrom/Reshiram EX being played more it puts Emboar in a lot more danger of being Catcher-KO'd, which would be very bad.

I still don't think that Magneel could get the required energy out in time to KO big EXs. Against Mewtwo or other EX decks it would need to have 4 energy out from turn 2 onwards, and I just don't think that it could manage that. Magneboar also has Reshiram EX for early game and as a secondary attacker, and Magneel only has Zekrom and Thunderus (and maybe Zekrom EX?) which just can't do enough damage anymore. I'll take your word for it though, as I have never played Magneel.
 
alexmf2 said:
Ok, I guess I see the reasoning with Heavy Ball, but I think at least 1 would still be a good play to be Junk Armed for. I also added the "EX" to Reshiboar. I just realized, with Magnezone and Zekrom/Reshiram EX being played more it puts Emboar in a lot more danger of being Catcher-KO'd, which would be very bad.

I still don't think that Magneel could get the required energy out in time to KO big EXs. Against Mewtwo or other EX decks it would need to have 4 energy out from turn 2 onwards, and I just don't think that it could manage that. Magneboar also has Reshiram EX for early game and as a secondary attacker, and Magneel only has Zekrom and Thunderus (and maybe Zekrom EX?) which just can't do enough damage anymore. I'll take your word for it though, as I have never played Magneel.
Click to expand...

I don't find it likely though that by turn 2 Mewtwo can threaten KO's on your Magnezone. And what's wrong with 2-hitting Mewtwo with say Thundurus or Zekrom?
 
petertclo said:
I don't find it likely though that by turn 2 Mewtwo can threaten KO's on your Magnezone. And what's wrong with 2-hitting Mewtwo with say Thundurus or Zekrom?
Click to expand...

Maybe not Mewtwo, but other EX's such as Reshiram and Zekrom could.
 
alexmf2 said:
Maybe not Mewtwo, but other EX's such as Reshiram and Zekrom could.
Click to expand...

There's no way Reshiram or Zekrom are fully charged turn 2 consistently.
They will generally take the same amount of time to build up as your Eelektrik and Magnezone.
By which time, trading prizes with Thundurus/Zekrom is an option.
 
Celebi23 said:
What makes either of these decks better than Eelzone? Eelzone is the reason Magneboar is not played anymore. Reshiboar was outclassed by TyRam long ago, but Eelzone is superior to TyRam since it's more powerful and accelerates with Stage 1's. I don't see this changing.
Click to expand...

Actually where I am, I still see Magneboar, and Reshiboar, and Reshiphlosion everywhere in the lower divisions, but in masters, you have a point, I see a lot of Eelzone. I personally agree with you that these decks aren't going to work anymore, but between those two I'd go with Magneboar.
 
petertclo said:
There's no way Reshiram or Zekrom are fully charged turn 2 consistently.
They will generally take the same amount of time to build up as your Eelektrik and Magnezone.
By which time, trading prizes with Thundurus/Zekrom is an option.
Click to expand...
Reshiboar and Magneboar could easily have a turn 2 Reshiram, and all Zekrom needs is a DCE and one Eelektrik to get charged turn 2.
 
alexmf2 said:
Reshiboar and Magneboar could easily have a turn 2 Reshiram, and all Zekrom needs is a DCE and one Eelektrik to get charged turn 2.
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And getting an Emboar t2 and 4 energy is supposed to be easy. It is uncommon for Reshiram in Tyram to attack t2 with Blue Flare, let alone the EX?
 
Eelektrik only accelerates to the bench. And you're not guaranteed a way to discard an energy or a DCE. Zekrom-EX isn't getting out T2. :p And neither is Reshiram for reasons stated above.
 
petertclo said:
And getting an Emboar t2 and 4 energy is supposed to be easy. It is uncommon for Reshiram in Tyram to attack t2 with Blue Flare, let alone the EX?
Click to expand...

You only need 2 energy with a DCE, and if you can't get 2 energy (or 4 without DCE) in two turns then you need to make your deck more consistent. Old Reshiboar could get 3 energy T2, and with Reshiram EX you only need the same amount with a DCE, and on top of that you have Cilan.
 
Before anybody says anything about it being nearly impossible to get 3-4 energy in 2 turns, there's Cilan. Run 3-4 of those, some Pokegear, and it becomes really easy to get that 4 energy and start hitting 150 turn 2.
 
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