Blog "Shaymin-EX Costs How Much?!" — A Couple Of Budget Decks

Neat article. I haven't tried Klefki in Fight Alone because I don't like the idea of starting with it, or hitting the Escape Rope if I do. Seems like a neat idea in any case. I also disagree that the Mewtwo matchup is even. Parallel City is standard in every deck, even Mewtwo. I can see the potential but due to Damage Change shenanigans and you basically requiring the OHKO to stand a chance, I'd say this one is a little more in Mewtwo's favor.

Fun fact, the first time I built this deck and took it online for testing, the very first deck I fought was Greninja. It was just as awful as you described.

I also thinks this brings up good discussion potential for what is considered a budget deck. I agree that most of the cost is in staples that every deck needs, but if you told me that I was going to spend in excess of a hundred bucks on a deck and said that deck was considered budget, I'd probably question your knowledge of what it means to be on a budget.

I'm surprised you didn't mention Octillery once. The reason Shaymin is so expensive is because it lets you draw cards for free. Octillery, while it has risen in price, is the only viable substitute for it (Expanded players can use Electrode (from PLF I think), which has free retreat but gets you one less card). Having Octillery on the field basically makes you immune to N, which is a big deal. In an article about building on a budget, I think you would have been well served at least informing people that it's there, and possibly talk about decks that can include it to great effect.
 
fleshrum said:
These look great. Thanks for sharing.
Click to expand...

My pleasure. I hope you'll try them out.

PMJ said:
Neat article. I haven't tried Klefki in Fight Alone because I don't like the idea of starting with it, or hitting the Escape Rope if I do. Seems like a neat idea in any case. I also disagree that the Mewtwo matchup is even. Parallel City is standard in every deck, even Mewtwo. I can see the potential but due to Damage Change shenanigans and you basically requiring the OHKO to stand a chance, I'd say this one is a little more in Mewtwo's favor.

Fun fact, the first time I built this deck and took it online for testing, the very first deck I fought was Greninja. It was just as awful as you described.

I also thinks this brings up good discussion potential for what is considered a budget deck. I agree that most of the cost is in staples that every deck needs, but if you told me that I was going to spend in excess of a hundred bucks on a deck and said that deck was considered budget, I'd probably question your knowledge of what it means to be on a budget.

I'm surprised you didn't mention Octillery once. The reason Shaymin is so expensive is because it lets you draw cards for free. Octillery, while it has risen in price, is the only viable substitute for it (Expanded players can use Electrode (from PLF I think), which has free retreat but gets you one less card). Having Octillery on the field basically makes you immune to N, which is a big deal. In an article about building on a budget, I think you would have been well served at least informing people that it's there, and possibly talk about decks that can include it to great effect.
Click to expand...

Starting Klefki isn't really a problem at all. With the two Escape rope, it's pretty easy to get him out of the active spot when you want to. Also, because you're not going to be attacking until at least turn two, Klefki serves as a kind of shield for your attackers to hide behind until they're ready. When Klefki is KO'd, simply activate Lucario and start attacking.

You say you don't like starting with Klefki because of his Retreat Cost (correct me if I'm wrong), but unless the only Pokemon you play is the 4-4 Lucario line, you're bound to start with someone else now and again. Would you be suggesting to not play a basic other than Riolu, or to play one with free Retreat?

I can see your point with the M Mewtwo-EX match-up. I have not seen a M Mewtwo-EX deck with Parallel City, but that certainly doesn't mean they don't exist. The OHKO is definitely necessary to win this match-up, but that is usually a manageable task. Though, with Parallel City in the picture, this does become more difficult. All things considered, I would agree with you that this match-up is an uphill battle, but a winnable battle. I'd say it's around 65-35. Would you agree?

I agree that these decks are still quite expensive, but quite frankly, they're still probably the cheapest competitive options you'll find. I believe you misunderstand the topic of the article. There's a difference between 'budget decks' and 'budget builds'. A budget deck is a deck that is naturally inexpensive, even in it's strongest form. A budget build is taking a regular meta deck, and substituting the expensive cards, for cards that cost less, but fill a similar role. My article takes a look at two budget decks. It does not explain how to build decks on a budget. This is why Octillery wasn't mentioned. He doesn't fit well in either of the highlighted decks. An article describing how to build on a budget would be great, but that is not this article.

I do however acknowledge the fact that these decks are still quite expensive. So below I will describe possible substitutions for cards in these decks.

Lucario / Klefki

-2 VS Seeker, +2 Shauna / Professor Birch's Observations - the age old argument of Shauna vs. Birch applies here. A matter of personal preference really. I'd use Birch.

-2 Trainer's, +2 Acro Bike

-1 Max Elixir, +1 EXP. Share

Total Savings: $33.89

Donphan

- 1 Computer Search, +1 Dowsing Machine

-2 VS Seeker, +1 Korrina, +1 Wally

Total Savings: $39.86

Hope this helps.

P.S. I'm surprised you didn't comment on the little dig towards yourself and @Serperior in the beginning of the article.

minecraft7er said:
eh about the shaymin at the expense of
3x professor sycamore 1.20 ea
1x lysandre 2.48
2x n 1.48 ea
1x frodager 1.39
1x trvanant break 3.78
AND GET THIS
I GOT A SHAYMIN FOR IT
11 bucks
for a
73 dollar card
Click to expand...

That's one heck of a deal! I'll offer you $20 for it.:p
 
Mewtwo uses Parallel City for the same reasons any other deck does: clear its own field of Hoopa and Shaymin or crush Ray's Bench.

I know that Octillery doesn't fit in either of those builds - I wasn't trying to imply he did. But there are some decks that can incorporate it.

And yeah, ha ha, I noticed it. I just didn't mention it :p
 
I would play 1/2 cobalion sts in th lucario deck, just to help setup. Promo Jirachi is a nice one to include too, as it disrupts special energy decks.
 
P3DS said:
I would play 1/2 cobalion sts in th lucario deck, just to help setup. Promo Jirachi is a nice one to include too, as it disrupts special energy decks.
Click to expand...

Cobalion would be a good idea, but I would use him late game for his Revenge Blast attack. It would be easy enough to charge up with Max Elixir and EXP. Share, and would give us another option to take that last critical KO when Fight Alone doesn't cut it. It's also a pretty good answer to Glaceon-EX. The only problem I have with him, is that if you start with him he'll be reducing your damage for the rest of the game until you use him, which we really can't afford. On the other hand, the games that you don't start with him, he would make a pretty good addition to the deck. I wouldn't play more than one to reduce the risk of starting with him.

I don't think I would run that risk for Jirachi, seeing as how the goal is to KO - not disrupt. If we're taking KO's every turn, then there's no need to discard our opponent's Energy. The only time we would use him is we couldn't Fight Alone that turn, at which point that space would better be devoted towards our consistency. Plus, any turn that we Stardust, our opponent will likely just Sky Return a Shaymin-EX, which is worse for us in the long run.

Thanks for your input @P3DS! Let me know if you agree.
 
minecraft7er said:
eh about the shaymin at the expense of
3x professor sycamore 1.20 ea
1x lysandre 2.48
2x n 1.48 ea
1x frodager 1.39
1x trvanant break 3.78
AND GET THIS
I GOT A SHAYMIN FOR IT
11 bucks
for a
73 dollar card
Click to expand...

You sound really proud of ripping someone off. Did it make you feel good about yourself?

It's always a shame to see people preying on newer or younger players to benefit themselves, especially when they brag about it, no less, on an article in response to how difficult it can be for new players to get a hold of an expensive staple card like Shaymin.
 
Honestly @PMJ I'm amazed that Octillery hasn't dropped a bit with the Battle Arena Deck Print bringing a few more copies to the game. At least VS Seeker has dropped to eight at least.

Shaymin EX is just the crazy definition of splash-able in about anything. Due to this not only are less copies on the second market but the second market knows how valuable the card is. I don't think anything else in standard that is expensive that isn't to shine up a deck if best maybe 20?

I hope more decks start to show up that are able to preform well enough without it but for the most part it is going to have to be decks that don't run EX or upcoming GX. Love that you made two different decks for both Standard and Expanded.
 
Threw the sweet mercy of bird jesus and lord helix, what idiot made these decklist?
Mistake list:
1. Lucario fight alone is good with one or two copies of klefki but needs draw support which unown from ancient origins does well because it discards itself off the bench and if you do start with it there is some switch or escape ropes in a good deck.
2. Your deck list for lucario is inconsistent and should just be more like this:
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 12

* 4 Talonflame STS 96
* 4 Riolu FAC 45
* 4 Lucario FAC 63

##Trainer Cards - 41

* 4 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 2 Lysandre AOR 78
* 1 Professor's Letter XY 123
* 1 Escape Rope PRC 127
* 1 Buddy-Buddy Rescue BKT 135
* 2 Super Rod BKT 149
* 3 Captivating Poké Puff STS 99
* 4 Puzzle of Time BKP 109
* 1 Teammates PRC 141
* 2 Silent Lab PRC 140
* 3 VS Seeker ROS 110
* 4 N FAC 105
* 1 Pokémon Ranger STS 104
* 3 Ultra Ball ROS 93
* 4 Professor Sycamore PHF 101
* 2 Level Ball NXD 89
* 3 Exp. Share PRC 128

##Energy - 7

* 7 Metal Energy Energy 8

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
This decklist can be copied to clipboard and imported to ptcgo

3. donphan has a lot of trouble with water box and seismitoad not to mention yveltal with fighting resistance. instead try something like this for a donphan deck list providing more defense to yveltal and more consistency in this newer expanded format, this isn't 2015 anymore.
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 15

* 3 Carbink FAC 50
* 1 Hawlucha FFI 63
* 4 Phanpy PLS 71
* 4 Donphan PLS 72
* 2 Dedenne FFI 34
* 1 Keldeo-EX LTR 45

##Trainer Cards - 35

* 2 Battle Compressor Team Flare Gear PHF 92
* 2 Float Stone BKT 137
* 2 Muscle Band XY 121
* 3 Fighting Stadium FFI 90
* 2 Focus Sash FFI 91
* 4 Ultra Ball ROS 93
* 2 Korrina FFI 95
* 4 Professor Sycamore PHF 101
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
* 4 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 1 Lysandre AOR 78
* 2 N FAC 105
* 1 Super Rod BKT 149
* 1 Silver Bangle PLB 88
* 1 Life Dew PLF 107

##Energy - 10

* 4 Strong Energy FFI 104
* 4 Fighting Energy BLWEnergy 3
* 2 Double Colorless Energy FAC 114

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
This decklist can be copied and imported to ptcgo

4. I don't want to be rude but it does not seem that you understand how to make a more consistant and competitive deck. I see what you are trying to do but all of your decklist seem like skeleton lists because there are major consistancy flaws. For example there is no point in having umbreon and jolteon could be solved easier with a cheaper dedenne because it is not ability and he is not a stage 1 making it faster and keldeo which makes it easier to rush in and retreat keeping you from having to put a new weak hawlucha and instead placing a carbink which will likely survive. Of course that leaves a decent sized weakness to yanmega but yanmega isn't seen much especially with actual lightning decks in the format. This is all for now but you have to look for more consistent ways to play instead of something that just looks pretty on paper because your lucario is cool and all but using that decklist in real life you need more draw and consistency threw unown or talonflame which i prefer talonflame.
This was a long yet very important reply in my opinion and I didn't want to be rude but i just need to see consistancy in deck list nowadays. Good day to you sir.
 
I am a little surprised Lucario hasn't taken off better in the current Meta. Hitting fairy decks for weakness, capitalizing on the large benches of MRay, Rainbow Road, and all those decks that look to Hoopa to three megas and tons of Shaymin bench sitters. I am sure there is a high tier combo out there that just hasn't been figured out yet.
 
Yog said:
I am a little surprised Lucario hasn't taken off better in the current Meta. Hitting fairy decks for weakness, capitalizing on the large benches of MRay, Rainbow Road, and all those decks that look to Hoopa to three megas and tons of Shaymin bench sitters. I am sure there is a high tier combo out there that just hasn't been figured out yet.
Click to expand...

Any Fairy deck that runs Mega Gardevoir from Steam Siege can discard the entire bench. After that you may be hitting for only 60 damage including weakness. Now it takes 4 hits to knock out their Mega Gardevoir and just 1 hit on their side. A Mega Rayquaza player that isn't too reckless will keep his bench around 4 Pokémon, so a one hit knock out is not be possible at all times. Sure Klefki will help, but tons of decks run Garbodor. There's a likely chance it gets stuck on the bench in this match-up, reducing the damage output. Another card that is played often is Parallel City, and it can help players reduce a bench full with Shaymin EX and Hoopa EX. In my opinion Fight Alone is too gimmicky / unreliable...
 
TheDeckWizard74 said:
Threw the sweet mercy of bird jesus and lord helix, what idiot made these decklist?
Mistake list:
1. Lucario fight alone is good with one or two copies of klefki but needs draw support which unown from ancient origins does well because it discards itself off the bench and if you do start with it there is some switch or escape ropes in a good deck.
2. Your deck list for lucario is inconsistent and should just be more like this:
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 12

* 4 Talonflame STS 96
* 4 Riolu FAC 45
* 4 Lucario FAC 63

##Trainer Cards - 41

* 4 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 2 Lysandre AOR 78
* 1 Professor's Letter XY 123
* 1 Escape Rope PRC 127
* 1 Buddy-Buddy Rescue BKT 135
* 2 Super Rod BKT 149
* 3 Captivating Poké Puff STS 99
* 4 Puzzle of Time BKP 109
* 1 Teammates PRC 141
* 2 Silent Lab PRC 140
* 3 VS Seeker ROS 110
* 4 N FAC 105
* 1 Pokémon Ranger STS 104
* 3 Ultra Ball ROS 93
* 4 Professor Sycamore PHF 101
* 2 Level Ball NXD 89
* 3 Exp. Share PRC 128

##Energy - 7

* 7 Metal Energy Energy 8

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
This decklist can be copied to clipboard and imported to ptcgo

3. donphan has a lot of trouble with water box and seismitoad not to mention yveltal with fighting resistance. instead try something like this for a donphan deck list providing more defense to yveltal and more consistency in this newer expanded format, this isn't 2015 anymore.
****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 15

* 3 Carbink FAC 50
* 1 Hawlucha FFI 63
* 4 Phanpy PLS 71
* 4 Donphan PLS 72
* 2 Dedenne FFI 34
* 1 Keldeo-EX LTR 45

##Trainer Cards - 35

* 2 Battle Compressor Team Flare Gear PHF 92
* 2 Float Stone BKT 137
* 2 Muscle Band XY 121
* 3 Fighting Stadium FFI 90
* 2 Focus Sash FFI 91
* 4 Ultra Ball ROS 93
* 2 Korrina FFI 95
* 4 Professor Sycamore PHF 101
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
* 4 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 1 Lysandre AOR 78
* 2 N FAC 105
* 1 Super Rod BKT 149
* 1 Silver Bangle PLB 88
* 1 Life Dew PLF 107

##Energy - 10

* 4 Strong Energy FFI 104
* 4 Fighting Energy BLWEnergy 3
* 2 Double Colorless Energy FAC 114

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
This decklist can be copied and imported to ptcgo

4. I don't want to be rude but it does not seem that you understand how to make a more consistant and competitive deck. I see what you are trying to do but all of your decklist seem like skeleton lists because there are major consistancy flaws. For example there is no point in having umbreon and jolteon could be solved easier with a cheaper dedenne because it is not ability and he is not a stage 1 making it faster and keldeo which makes it easier to rush in and retreat keeping you from having to put a new weak hawlucha and instead placing a carbink which will likely survive. Of course that leaves a decent sized weakness to yanmega but yanmega isn't seen much especially with actual lightning decks in the format. This is all for now but you have to look for more consistent ways to play instead of something that just looks pretty on paper because your lucario is cool and all but using that decklist in real life you need more draw and consistency threw unown or talonflame which i prefer talonflame.
This was a long yet very important reply in my opinion and I didn't want to be rude but i just need to see consistancy in deck list nowadays. Good day to you sir.
Click to expand...
Have you tested these deck lists? What is your W/L ratio? Just wondering on how much these changes could actually change the deck.
 
WhiteWolfos said:
Have you tested these deck lists? What is your W/L ratio? Just wondering on how much these changes could actually change the deck.
Click to expand...
Okay, i did test the fight alone and it is a threat to be reckoned with but donphan is more of a generic list that is a very similar version of a friend of mine used not too long ago. Very good question and I do not like to say false information. I still do not think donphan is good in expanded. Garchomp/ Landorus EX is my expanded idea.
 
I found the lucario deck working out much better running a 2-2 octillery line. Stick a float stone on octillery and he's your KO safety net. Yeah you can't remove him from the bench, but you have poke puff and you shouldn't be Yolo empty benching anyway. Without octillery I constantly got stuck with no draw.
 
If Shaymn EX should be reprinted, it should still have the Roaring Skies set logo. They have done this before.
 
TheDeckWizard74 said:
Okay, i did test the fight alone and it is a threat to be reckoned with but donphan is more of a generic list that is a very similar version of a friend of mine used not too long ago. Very good question and I do not like to say false information. I still do not think donphan is good in expanded. Garchomp/ Landorus EX is my expanded idea.
Click to expand...
Would the ratio be considered your "false info"?
 
Tseus said:
I found the lucario deck working out much better running a 2-2 octillery line. Stick a float stone on octillery and he's your KO safety net. Yeah you can't remove him from the bench, but you have poke puff and you shouldn't be Yolo empty benching anyway. Without octillery I constantly got stuck with no draw.
Click to expand...
Were you playing a 4-4 Sycamore and N?
 
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