Discussion Shaymin EX (RSK) and Jirachi EX (PLB)

[totodile_it_down]

As I'm putting together decklists involving the newly released set, I keep running into a similar problem: Can Shaymin EX and Jirachi EX be run in the same deck? Is it too dangerous to play these low HP EXs together, or are they so valuable that its worth the risk?

 

[Elbow]

Maybe in Flareon decks. They run a lot of pokemon and all they do is draw, and draw, and draw cards.
I don't think its a good idea to run both together in most decks though. 1 Jirachi was big for awhile in many decks. People never really put in 2 or more because it actually cut consistency by starting with Jirachi more often (and taking away crucial cards away from a limited deck too).
Just like when when Uxie came out, it wouldn't suck to start a game with Shaymin EX. Its better then Jirachi, but why waste an attachment to a 'consistency' card when it is you start with it every few games.
At most, a 1-1 line for them, but personally I'd play 2 Shaymin. The attack is much better and has more HP.

 

[Blui]

Maybe in Flareon decks. They run a lot of pokemon and all they do is draw, and draw, and draw cards.

Absolutely not. One of Flareon's strengths is its ability to trade positively with nearly any deck in the game and it takes full advantage of this. Running more cards like Jirachi and Shaymin in the same list is simply asking for trouble as they become huge targets whenever they hit the board. You could run a 1-1 split, but that's much less optimal for Flareon when you
a) want to get an Archie's for an Empoleon
b) want to grab a Sycamore to burn any unwanted Pokemon from your hand.
Cards like Shaymin and Jirachi make this hard for Flareon because they are either going to get killed for two free prizes or act away as 10 damage you will not get on the board.


As for running Shaymin and/or Jirachi, run whatever is better for your deck. I would advise against playing both, but there could be some magical strategy that needs to draw to 6 and then grab a Sycamore from no where (because you totally wouldn't have drawn it off the Shaymin or anything). Shaymin is much better for decks that need a raw burst of aggression, making it an ideal card for decks like Rayquaza or even Landorus. Jirachi on the other hand is much more calculated, it is there either to improve consistent draw (which Shaymin does, and arguably better too) or to grab a singleton copy of a Supporter like Archie's Ace in the Hole or Team Flare Grunt.

 

[totodile_it_down]

I think I agree that they shouldn't generally be played together. I just have trouble making sense of everyone's love for Shaymin EX. It seems like more of niche play in particular decks as opposed to him being splashable in every deck as an alternative to draw supporters (which seems like a lot of people's intention. Correct me if I'm wrong). I just don't believe people will want multiples of these clogging up their benches, especially when they have no intention of attacking with him. While Super Scoop Up has proven to be a very competitive card, Toad-lock isn't going away, so there isn't going to be a reliable way to get these things back into your hand. I still feel like Jirachi is the more reliable choice while also offering the diversity you need in a specific situation.

 

[bbninjas]

One of the things that makes Shaymin-EX so much better is how you can get it back into your hand with a simple DCE attachment and attack. I often find situations where I only need <30 damage to KO, which makes Shaymin a viable attacker in some situations.

 

[Billy Bryant]

I think I agree that they shouldn't generally be played together. I just have trouble making sense of everyone's love for Shaymin EX. It seems like more of niche play in particular decks as opposed to him being splashable in every deck as an alternative to draw supporters (which seems like a lot of people's intention. Correct me if I'm wrong). I just don't believe people will want multiples of these clogging up their benches, especially when they have no intention of attacking with him. While Super Scoop Up has proven to be a very competitive card, Toad-lock isn't going away, so there isn't going to be a reliable way to get these things back into your hand. I still feel like Jirachi is the more reliable choice while also offering the diversity you need in a specific situation.

I think Shaymin's hype is completely justified after some initial testing, but that people are hyping it for the wrong reasons. Like you, i've heard people talking about it in a sense of replacing draw supporters. I believe that shouldn't be the case though.

The brilliance of it, is being able to Lysandre and play shaymin to draw cards in the same turn. OR say in a fighting deck, Korrina for Fighting pokemon + ultra ball, ultra ball for shaymin, shaymin to draw up to 6. Let's say Teammates for Shaymin + Strong energy? then Shaymin to draw. Even just to N/Colress for low amounts and still get a decent draw out of it, or being able to play down a big hand, then Shaymin for draw, and then being able to draw a second time (or multiple times depending on deck) It really makes all the difference in those situations, I think people will begin to realise as it's being used.

If using it with Sky Field you can also discard them when skyfield is removed, meaning they aren't a target anymore and if you run trump card you can Trump + Ultra Ball for more draw support as well as recycling your discard.

Using it with Bats is nice because you can cycle through your deck faster to get those evolutions and you already run scoop ups.

It's a versatile card, but the bonus imo is that it doesn't affect your supporters. With Jirachi you have to remove a potentially valuable supporter from your deck and then use your supporter for that turn too to make its ability useful. Whereas with shaymin you have less variety but more consistency, being able to jirachi for a Lysandre is nice but purely because of the pain of drawing dead, i'm going to be using shaymin.

 

[totodile_it_down]

I don't disagree with what you're saying Billy, the combos that Shaymin will assist at times will be down right amazing. But when I think of the current meta landscape, I can't envision Shaymin being splashed into every single deck. You suggested Fighting as an example, but Fighting decks don't generally play DCE, making that seem like a bad combination in my puny brain (LandoBats could potentially run it because of the Scoop Ups, but I don't think Shaymin will help to sway an already bad Toad matchup).

I think Shaymin will help to shape a new meta, undoubtedly, but I'm not sure he'll be a staple in every single deck like Jirachi has long been.

Quick edit: I'll happily admit I'm wrong in a couple weeks when all of my decklists begin with 4 Sycamore and 4 Shaymin EX haha.