Discussion Shaymin-EX vs. Octillery in Gyarados

[awesomeMSG]

So the Gyarados deck, that recently hit hard in Orlando, has been having players choose between two different ways to play: Octillery and Shaymin-EX. Personally I have only been playing Octillery (because I like Octillery more).
Here are some Pros and Cons for both cards:
Shaymin-EX Pros
Allows extreme speed through your deck
Gets you set up immensely
Less cards in the deck than Octillery
Shaymin-EX Cons
In this deck specifically, it gives your opponent the two prize cards that you don't want to give up as Gyarados only gives your opponent one prize
Really bad late game especially when there is no way to pick it up from the bench and doesn't help with late game Ns
Only a one time use

Octillery Pros
Late game Ns are hard to hurt this deck when you have Octillery
Can help all around consistency in the long run
More than a one time use
Octillery Cons
Can have for a slower set up
Makes for another part of the deck you want out
Less space in the decks or other things

So this gives a start for the discussion by hearing both sides. What are your thoughts?

 

[TheGuardian118]

Don't forget about Dive Ball. Octillery can be searched with Dive ball, like all your other guys. Shaymin means you have to run a few ultra balls. May or may not make a difference as discarding uneeded cards can actually be helpful anyway.

 

[fr33land]

Ultra ball serves to fetch gyarados, and reduces your hand size. It works well in both cases, Shaymin or Octillery.

I run a float stone and 2-2 octillery currently. I also run 9 or 10 balls, dive, level and ultra and have several ways to recover pokemon so I allow octillery to be knocked out sometimes a luxury you probably wouldn't enjoy with shaymin.

The deck is pretty consistently hungry for resources, so I would prefer to have at least 2 shaymin, a ninja boy and a parallel city, which ultmately takes as much space as octillery.

Maybe it's just personal preference. I tried Manaphy Ex as retreat support but found I did prefer forcing a 6 ko game and Manaphy's attack has exactly the wrong kind of effect in a hilariously bad kind of way if you are forced to attack with it.

Anyways, with 4 dive ball and a couple level ball, turn 1 is usually very good for setup and octillery is in play 100 percent of the time on turn 2 and your opponent is already busier sniping karps or dealing with a giant angry sea worm.

 

[Anthony Orosco]

Honestly, it all comes down to what deck you're playing. Speed decks such as Rainbow Road and MegaRay are just that, speed decks. They require fast draw power that leaves the opponent trying to catch up for the rest of the game. Decks like Greninja BREAK that take few turns to set up, but then ultimately boardsweep are in need of Octillary since it spoon feeds your hand all of the needed resources over the course of the game.

Decks that need Shaymin:
Mega Ray
Rainbow Road
Night March (Expanded)
Vespiquen and Friends (Expanded)
Pretty much any deck that revolves around Mega Pokemon. They require combos with Spirit Links, so the draw power is necessary to pull them off.

Do not need Shaymin:
Greninja BREAK
Ninja Box
Glaceon Walls
Volcanion (Can utilize Shaymin, but there are Supporters that do everything needed to set up turn 1)
All Non-Tier 1-2 decks.

Honestly, you can build any deck with or without Shay the bae. However decks can suffer without her. Take a look at your deck and see whether it is slow enough to merit a copy, or just use the space to improve something else. Hope this helped!