Discussion Shiftry Viability

DevinTheWelf

DevinTheWelf

A Mach Punch User
Member
Shiftry-Flashfire-7.jpg


I want to know what viability of this card, because I think it has great potential due to the realease of Sky Field. So far I've found a few good cards that could help this deck be powerful.

-Target Whistle: can fill an enemies bench when Sky Field is up, making then have to use the extra space making you hit for bigger numbers.
-Miltank: can finish off attacks from Shiftry on big EX's and also takes only one colorless.
-Sky Field: To obviously allow Shiftry to attack for even more damage.
-Robo Sub: Takes up bench space without putting down actual prize Pokemon for your opponent.

If you guys can think of anything that could go well with the card, I'd like to hear your thoughts. I think the main thing holding Shiftry back is speed, and while Big Plant Forest can speed up evolution you'll still have to use Sky Field for big kills.
 
I agree that the deck could be very powerful; it was powerful in my local un-meta league for a while without Big Plant Forest.

Partner wise, I think Ninetales PRC. This guy simply allows your opponent not to kick out your Stadium in the worst possible time. However, you can do 220 without Skyfield if you're lucky (100 + 100 + 20 || your bench, your opponent's bench and band), so I'm a bit scepticle if Skyfield and/or Ninetales is really necessary. The 220 damage is only needed to KO the following Pokemon (you get the Weakness hit on Wailord and the Primals):
M-Ray [N]
M-Aggron
M-Kanga
M-Charizard [N]
M-Venusaur

Looking at those, 2 are weak to [Y], 2 to [R] and 1 to [F], so I think a good partner would be able to respond to those Megas, particularly to hit weakness.
 
I think either Miltank or M-Manectric. Shiftry and Manectric cover some pretty decent weaknesses, with Manectric taking care of Rayquaza, Shaymin and so on and Shiftry hitting the primals and Toad. Miltank, meanwhile, lets you get some decent damage while you draw through your deck with Shiftry (though not so much that you deck out, obviously).
 
bbninjas said:
I agree that the deck could be very powerful; it was powerful in my local un-meta league for a while without Big Plant Forest.

Partner wise, I think Ninetales PRC. This guy simply allows your opponent not to kick out your Stadium in the worst possible time. However, you can do 220 without Skyfield if you're lucky (100 + 100 + 20 || your bench, your opponent's bench and band), so I'm a bit scepticle if Skyfield and/or Ninetales is really necessary. The 220 damage is only needed to KO the following Pokemon (you get the Weakness hit on Wailord and the Primals):
M-Ray [N]
M-Aggron
M-Kanga
M-Charizard [N]
M-Venusaur

Looking at those, 2 are weak to [Y], 2 to [R] and 1 to [F], so I think a good partner would be able to respond to those Megas, particularly to hit weakness.
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But once the player sees that I'm getting more attack power the more Pokemon he/she plays, they'll start to limit their benched Pokemon. So I could be only getting 120-140 damage off, apposed to a minimum of 160 if my bench is full. Ninetales could be a really good partner by locking stadium, plus it gives more value from playing Wally in the deck. It also has 90 HP, so the new Level Ball coming out can let you search for it. Illumise from Primal Clash could also be good, letting you search your deck for a basic energy and attack to 1 bench Pokemon.
 
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DevinTheWelf said:
But once the player sees that I'm getting more attack power the more Pokemon he/she plays, they'll start to limit their benched Pokemon. So I could be only getting 120-140 damage off, apposed to a minimum of 160 if my bench is full. Ninetales could be a really good partner by locking stadium, plus it gives more value from playing Wally in the deck. It also has 90 HP, so the new Level Ball coming out can let you search for it.
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Fair enough. However, with the Target Whistle strategy I assumed you would be able to keep their bench intact. But then they do need a Basic in the discard for the card to be any use, and having enough in the discard does sound improbable.
 
Ms Hugo said:
I think either Miltank or M-Manectric. Shiftry and Manectric cover some pretty decent weaknesses, with Manectric taking care of Rayquaza, Shaymin and so on and Shiftry hitting the primals and Toad. Miltank, meanwhile, lets you get some decent damage while you draw through your deck with Shiftry (though not so much that you deck out, obviously).
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I think that this deck should stay away from EX's, especially Mega ones as it would slow down the consistency of building up Shiftry, while also giving to prizes in a deck that could otherwise trade prizes really well.

bbninjas said:
Fair enough. However, with the Target Whistle strategy I assumed you would be able to keep their bench intact. But then they do need a Basic in the discard for the card to be any use, and having enough in the discard does sound improbable.
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Yeah, I think the target Whistle would just be good for putting back Shaymin EX's on bench for good prize kills, same with things like Mew EX and Jirachi EX (well, until the format switches). I'll probably just run one, maybe two.
 
This card is out at the wrong time. Stage 2 Pokemon just don't have a strong place in the current meta-game because they are too slow, and have a period of vulnerability. If you are wanting to run a line of Shiftry you would need maybe 3-2-3 depending on what you want the focus of your deck to be on. Then you have to put in Rare candies. Why would you play this card when you can get a more efficient Beater that requires less space in your deck? I mean this looks like a really fun deck, but it isn't really that viable.
 
Mr.Muffin said:
This card is out at the wrong time. Stage 2 Pokemon just don't have a strong place in the current meta-game because they are too slow, and have a period of vulnerability. If you are wanting to run a line of Shiftry you would need maybe 3-2-3 depending on what you want the focus of your deck to be on. Then you have to put in Rare candies. Why would you play this card when you can get a more efficient Beater that requires less space in your deck? I mean this looks like a really fun deck, but it isn't really that viable.
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Did you take in account this?

Giant Plant Forest – Trainer
Stadium

Each player’s [G] Pokemon can Evolve during the first turn and on the turn they were put into play.

This card stays in play when you play it. Discard this card if another Stadium card comes into play. If another card with the same name is in play, you can’t play this card.
 
bbninjas said:
Did you take in account this?

Giant Plant Forest – Trainer
Stadium

Each player’s [G] Pokemon can Evolve during the first turn and on the turn they were put into play.

This card stays in play when you play it. Discard this card if another Stadium card comes into play. If another card with the same name is in play, you can’t play this card.
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I don't see why this card would change anything. It means more cards that you need for this. I don't know that many cards this could work with beyond Miltank. The deck seems like it would be really limited.
 
Mr.Muffin said:
I don't see why this card would change anything. It means more cards that you need for this. I don't know that many cards this could work with beyond Miltank. The deck seems like it would be really limited.
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The niche that Shiftry has with GPF is that is a Stage 2 with a great attack and great draw support that can be quickly evolved.
 
Mr.Muffin said:
I don't see why this card would change anything. It means more cards that you need for this. I don't know that many cards this could work with beyond Miltank. The deck seems like it would be really limited.
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1. Shiftry is probably one of the best match ups against Mega Ra because it gains power when Ray fills bench, and it has good prize trading.
2. Shiftry has weakness on Primal Groudon, so it only needs 6 bench Pokemon altogether for a 1hitKO.
3. Shiftry utterly destroys Seismitoad (assuming people still use that card after the rotation).
4. Shiftry's ability it great for drawing, so you can cut back on draw Supporters more than most other decks, making room for Big Plant Forest setup.
5. Shiftry is cool.
 
Back in DP-on, the only evolution decks that could beat SP decks were things like Jumpluff, Machamp, and Gyarados, which were used because they could evolve quickly and do very large amounts of damage for very little energy, while things like Pl0x didn't do very well because of how slow they were compared to the high hp basics that were SP.

Shiftry is an attacker that does a large amount of damage for very little energy (it's basically MRay-EX but doesn't lose 2 prizes on KO) and it can swarm itself more easily than other stage 2s due to built in consistency. This WILL be a deck that has to be accounted for come Fall Regionals, just like Empoleon in BW-DEX/DRX
 
Shiftry beats wailord...ish, it's basically luck hammer flips that decide who wins.

I tested this with 4-2-4 shiftry, 4 miltank, 2 eggs, 2 shaymin, I tried it with BTS for grass, it didn't stick and forced you to cycle through stadiums you probably would rather have kept to deal ohko's on things, evosoda and rare candys came in handy more. The deck isn't that great it's speed make's it hopeless in matchups that setup faster then you do, even if you have a superior draw engine all of your attacks are turn 2.

Edit: totoavros, colourless megaray is faster, it's ready to go with 5 cards the turn you play it versus shiftry which needs 5-6 at turn 2 regardless of the play.
 
I am still really skeptical about this deck. The last Stage 2 to get a lot of buzz as a Meta Deck was Swampert, and we all know how that ended. Swampert is a better stage 2, but doesn't have support. Shiftry is alright, and has support. I think this is a good deck if you don't have too much of a budget, but I don't think it can stand up to the other decks in the format.

Maybe next format depending on how much changes you might want to try it then.
 
Mr.Muffin said:
I am still really skeptical about this deck. The last Stage 2 to get a lot of buzz as a Meta Deck was Swampert, and we all know how that ended. Swampert is a better stage 2, but doesn't have support. Shiftry is alright, and has support. I think this is a good deck if you don't have too much of a budget, but I don't think it can stand up to the other decks in the format.

Maybe next format depending on how much changes you might want to try it then.
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Swampert was slow, clunky, and item based, while with Shiftry, all you need to do is get a [G] and a DCE and you can be attacking very quickly...it also partners well-ish with things like Vileplume, Non-AT Sceptile, and [G] Ludicolo
 
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A good build might be using GPF to set up quickly and then using AOR Ariados instead of Skyfield to stack a little extra damage against those Megas that Shiftry can't OHKO, as well as stacking up damage if the opponent decides to limit their bench.
 
Vaultboy91 said:
A good build might be using GPF to set up quickly and then using AOR Ariados instead of Skyfield to stack a little extra damage against those Megas that Shiftry can't OHKO, as well as stacking up damage if the opponent decides to limit their bench.
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Why would you waste space on putting in a line of Pokemon that will only do 1 damage in between turns (assuming your opponent isn't using a grass type) instead of just using Skyfield which can easily add up to 60 more damage in one turn if a bench is full.
 
^ Because you could use Giant Plant Forest to start attacking with Shiftry as soon as possible. If you hit for weakness, you only need 6 benched Pokemon to KO a Mega (if you have an MB). If you don't hit for weakness, and the opponent is playing a limited bench, you could use Target Whistles and Ariados to add more damage. Ariados would be able to get into play instantly and start Poisoning right away. I guess it'd still take two turns to get Shiftry fully powered up though, unless you use PRC Sceptile, but that's too many evolution lines.
 
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