Should TPCi Offer Optional Subscription Service On PTCGO?

crystal_pidgeot

crystal_pidgeot

Bird Trainer *Vaporeon on PokeGym*
Member
I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this but I feel its relevant to competitive. One thing that I (and many other players) have is its hard to get our hands on the cards we need to test with and if you're like me, you can't make weekly events to test. Literally my only testing ground are tournaments because of how busy I am throughout the week.

I test where I can on PTCGO since its really convenient but I don't have every card that's needed, so my results are skewed, which isn't good for a competitive player. I am aware of other play services like TCGone but I like the layout PTCGO and how it 'feels' like a real game (given the POV of the play area).

So this got me thinking. What if TPC/i charged, say... 4.99 a month (maybe 6.99) and the player got access to the ENTIRE card pool. This would fix the problem of not having what you need because lets face it, the RNG with the packs are bad and would let people properly test their decks without the need for filler. It would add more revenue to the game and hopefully increase the quality of the digital game. Having a premium status would be nice and maybe they could even add a ladder were you can play against other premium status players for better quality testing.

I know this would be something I would pay for. What about you all?
 
I've also had this thought. Here are some more.

1) Some people actually use the PTCGO for collecting; at first I thought it was a bit silly, but especially if you're not investing money into collecting and just like the challenge of it, its a fun little "game" as well (sometimes better than the actual TCG). An option like you present would have to take this into account, perhaps providing a way to treat your online collection separate from the card pool you use to build decks.

2) Another option could be making it easier to buy cards in game. The catch is that I haven't ever bought booster code lots to redeem, but for some folks it seems like that is far more effective to quickly get the dozens or hundreds of booster packs you'll need in order to trade for the cards you need for a top 10. That all still takes time though, so probably not a good option.

3) What might be a worthwhile option is creating an actual Pokémon TCG video game. Preferably it would be compatible with not just the current platforms but also the WiiU and 3DS (or are they already? XD). Doing this allows for the designers to focus on two additional sticking points for the PTCGO:

a) better single player game experience
b) better animations
​
I don't actually like the animations right now; for me if it isn't going to create something like a modern version of... um... I haven't bothered with the core game series in a while, so the original example was Pokémon Stadium. The graphics weren't mind blowing because - like in the TCG, your Pokémon were just on screen (maybe with a "waiting" animation) before doing a stock attack animation, but follow that template for PTCGO animations. Still make it so you can turn them off so that if you're devices are lacking or you just don't care, you can skip them.

Anyway, Option 3 could come with options to get those cards in the multi-player game, possibly just giving anyone who buys said game four trade locked copies of each card. If need be, make it a yearly thing so that anyone joining in or who fell behind can get caught back up. Some people who worked hard right now will hate it, but when you sign on for something like the PTCGO, this kind of rarity shift should be expected. If they don't want to give away too much with the first release, make some alternate versions or expansions that have different sets. So for example a "Pokémon TCG Offline Adventure" game might have HeartGold, SoulSilver, Black, White, Black 2, White 2, X, Y, and however other many versions to get down to a comfortable amount of cards unlocked for the current expansion. Not as easy as just a subscription fee, but it could be used to fund and improve a lot of aspects of the PTCGO online. Plus it would give you an offline version of the game with a (hopefully) better AI opponent selection.

TL;DR: I'm trying to take the best of the old Nintendo handheld Yu-Gi-Oh games and find a way to make that approach work as a single player offline experience, a multi-player local network or online experience, and the already established PTCGO experience.
 
Those could work but nothing would change with a paid subscription. The cards from the subscription would still be locked to the account or something like it to where you can't trade the cards but can use any card you want. Collectors can still do what they do because they will have their card pool as well as the locked card pool and the subscription card pool.
 
Frankly, booster pack codes are pretty cheap. At the extreme end, you're looking at $100 for 216 codes off Tollandtoad. That's 216 packs. Alternatively, $1 per pack, and I forget off the top of my head what the 36 pack lot costs. I wanna say $20.

Point is while it is cheaper to offer your subscription service, there's already fairly cheap options available to get large amounts of cards.

On top of that notice how they removed the gems from the game? Seems like they're either phasing out micro transactions or they're reworking them to be worth more per dollar, as they were more expensive than buying legit IRL packs and using those codes.
 
Scubasage said:
Frankly, booster pack codes are pretty cheap. At the extreme end, you're looking at $100 for 216 codes off Tollandtoad. That's 216 packs. Alternatively, $1 per pack, and I forget off the top of my head what the 36 pack lot costs. I wanna say $20.

Point is while it is cheaper to offer your subscription service, there's already fairly cheap options available to get large amounts of cards.

On top of that notice how they removed the gems from the game? Seems like they're either phasing out micro transactions or they're reworking them to be worth more per dollar, as they were more expensive than buying legit IRL packs and using those codes.
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I don't like entering codes, let alone 216 of them. For me, and my time, its much better to have a subscription, have access to the entire card pool and can play. If they want to do something with gems, then great. I don't really care for micro transactions when it comes to randomly generated content.
 
Though this a great idea, and this idea for online subscriptions will generate revenue, PTCGO would never do this.

The reason being is because of the aftermarket product. The after market product is huge. Basically, PTCGO helps promote mass box purchase with distributors. Distributors will over purchase because they know they can recoup some cost with online codes from the buyers. The buyers (Cardshop and Retailers) will purchase in large quantities making it less risky for the distributors, because again, they can recoup cost with online codes. The online codes are what alleviate the risk of buying in large in quantities from both distribution and retailer side.

What you are asking for is something that does not fit in Cooperate Business Model of Nintendo. Nintendo, if they are good company, has already ran analysis on this and know that amount of PTCGO players will not compensate for the large bulk purchases from the distributors, because again, this is a children's game, and their mane bread winners are probably kids form ages 6 to 13 that buy at target, and what not, from around the world. Unfortunately, actual competitive players don't generate a ton of money for Nintendo in the upfront cost (Actually, buying new product). Players usually buy aftermarket, or trade which generate no money for corporations.

Again, the only way this could change is a large petition from the players where it proves their own analytic's wrong. Where they could run the numbers of participants and say the risk of this new business model is less riskier than their last business model. A ball park guess they would probablly need somewhere around 30 to 60 thousand signatures to even dare compete with the global market.
 
poke4trade said:
...this is a children's game, and their mane bread winners are probably kids form ages 6 to 13 that buy at target, and what not, from around the world.
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Most of your post was sound. This only mentions two things that are pet peeves of mine, so I offer the alternative for your consideration.

When it has come up, the Pokémon TCG has been thought of as a "family game". That is why there is a 15+ bracket; if not it would have stayed gone. It was eliminated under WotC's tenure. They claimed it was because of pressure from Japan after an unfortunate incident involving some unruly players in the 15+, but when ambitious players brought this matter up directly with representatives from Japan, said representatives expressed confusion over what was being said (and not just because of language differences ;) ). As soon as Nintendo (and what would later become known as TPCi) took over from WotC the 15+ was restored. As such players like myself believe WotC was attempting to turn Pokémon into "Magic: The Junioring".

Regrettably I lack proper citation for that and what I am about to say, but you are correct that competitive players aren't the main source of revenue for the Pokémon TCG. Non-competitive players aren't either. Neither are collectors. It seems the bulk of sales go to people who don't really play or collect; basically you've got "random little kids" or "random nostalgic adults" that get a booster in lieu of a toy for a visit to the store or as an impulse buy. It might seem like splitting hairs to distinguish such people from either collectors or players, but they share little of the same needs as customers.

I am uncertain if adding a subscription service would significantly decrease the demand for spare booster packs, because it appeals most to people like @crystal_pidgeot who don't want to grind for freebies but don't want to go through the hassle of getting boosters to trade for what they need. Scratch building that first competitive deck is brutal if you don't know how to trade well, or simply have a couple hundred boosters at your disposal to handle less than great trades. ;)

So what about tying it into a 3DS and/or WiiU title? Even if it grants you little to nothing in the PTCGO itself, but allows you to unlock cards more easily in the single player game for use in said single player game and perhaps versus mode with another player who owns the title (not just the general PTCGO program), then it really shouldn't affect the sales you mentioned.
 
Otaku said:
So what about tying it into a 3DS and/or WiiU title? Even if it grants you little to nothing in the PTCGO itself, but allows you to unlock cards more easily in the single player game for use in said single player game and perhaps versus mode with another player who owns the title (not just the general PTCGO program), then it really shouldn't affect the sales you mentioned.
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Yes. What we have here is really good ideas and conversation. Believe me I want these ideas to come to a reality. The reason why most these ideas are blown off by pokemon/Nintendo is because there is no backing to them. In other words, if you want the attention of a huge cooperation, to point them in a better direction, then they way they've been doing for the last thirty-five years, players need to offer them more than ideas.


If you want to really really play the game of (cooperate change), you need to not tell people how good you are at the game, but show them.

To competitively change a game, trainers need to be competitive about it. Trainers care about winning Pokemon, but they don't show enough interest in the game to win at cooperate change. Cooperate change is hard because it is scary and long. In my line of work, I've done it twice, and between the two, it took me eight years to actually do it. I turned grey young. But now, I have a seat at the table.

These would be the first steps to a strategy:
1: Have a massive following behind the idea.
It is very hard for any corporate entity to overlook an idea when a following for that idea clearly has support, hence a petition.

2: The second thing a trainer needs is a plan, specifically, a well written plan.
I am not talking about a business plan. I'm talking about sound evidence that supports the idea of the petition while offering reasons it is a good idea. Offer your ideas in a clear format that displays it to a tee. --> Pokemon has done this whenever a card was banned...So you don't need to event the wheel you could just use that format. Kiss --> Keep It Simple Stupid

Poke'mon, when it comes to the global market, is much greater and bigger than one perceives. Just because someone perceives their problem as a well known problem in the community, doesn't mean Pokemon perceives it as a problem. When it comes to cooperate change, all variables must be addressed, just like in the card game, so you have a best chance of winning.

Honestly, this would make a great you tube series. Can we get Pokemon to change (insert word) for competitive play ?
 
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Its not really about making change for competitive, though I can go into a long post about that. I don't have the time to play in a weekly league but I can play PTCGO. I don't want to spend 2 hours entering codes for randomly generated cards, where I'm not even guaranteed what I'm looking for. I also don't want to deal with the really bad trade system but I am a competitive player and I do like to test concepts but don't have the resources to do it. a lot of people are like me but I would be willing to pay a little bit a month to have access to the entire card pool for at least expanded and would pay more for the card pool for legacy.

If they don't want to manage such a system, which I see no issues with, I would pay at least 20 bucks for a set that comes with 4 of each card. There is money to be here and would be very useful for a player like me who don't trade much to being with and just want to play.
 
@poke4trade

I am familiar with much of what you say. It is why I sometimes seem so cranky on the message boards. All I can do is try to correct what - to the best of my ability - are faulty positions on the game, in the hopes that the more people I can teach, the more people will hear it from them. There are so many things I used to want when the game (and myself) were younger, that now I realize were folly.
 
Yes. You right to realize that pokemon will not change unless their hand is forced, and I mean absolutely forced.

But on the contrary, trainers have more power then they think. I know specifically because with a united front on dispositions of any game (sports or otherwise) players can overwhelm cooperation's and force their hand to change. There is much historical documented evidence in that arena.

With any organization, big numbers equals power . Deeply rooted in our competitive nature, it is the reason why many run a 4 line of our most dominating card. We want to dominate in numbers and power. It is the idea that Pokemon is inherently teaching to players, big numbers matter.

I do believe if the community was to organize and petition, we would have the numbers. It would be like throwing down 4 seismitoads on the bench, we would lock them down and force them to listen. Some won't like it, while others will see it as a sign of deep rooted respect for the game -- ("Wow! You did all this, impressive.")

And on top of that, we would be using a lesson that Pokemon is teaching us in the card game, dominate in numbers. To me that is deep respect. At some point, the student needs to become the master.
 
I just wished they used the ladder prizes at the top end to give out stuff that is in short supply. Like Jirachi promo or jolteon EX. I can't get my hands on these two at all in game, and have them in real life but can't test online with them. It's really annoying to be honest.

I wouldn't mind having to grind out fifty games across a week to get them either. Especially for good playable stuff. I mean who wants a full art cheren?
 
Draaka said:
I just wished they used the ladder prizes at the top end to give out stuff that is in short supply. Like Jirachi promo or jolteon EX. I can't get my hands on these two at all in game, and have them in real life but can't test online with them. It's really annoying to be honest.

I wouldn't mind having to grind out fifty games across a week to get them either. Especially for good playable stuff. I mean who wants a full art cheren?
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I think that would be a bit worse.

The reason they put a Full Art as the big Prize at the end is because they don't expect most of us to reach the end. I know I had to give up on it after that disliked update that just makes the same game take about twice as long. It wasn't easy in the first place, as if you win 10 games per day you can only miss one day and still make (or exceed) the 2000 mark. Obviously I'm not a top player, but let's say I win half my games and lose half my games. Some of those are going to take less than a minute due to concessions and the like, others may take the full time, but a hypothetical average of 10 minutes per game seems reasonable. So 10 games per day means playing 20 games per day, and as they average 10 minutes per game that's 200 minutes or 3 hours and 20 minutes.* That doesn't leave a lot of time for any other kind of play and in actuality even if I can afford an average of nearly two hours per day on the game, I can't always afford to make up for the shorter days on the longer days.

Most Full Arts are worth enough that even if I already have it, winning another one free ups copy for trade.

The cards you want to be more available need to be in the shop if you really want an honest crack at them. When I saw promo Jirachi I prioritized it and got four copies (which each came with a booster pack for the then current set), purchased through the store. I doubt they would release Jolteon-EX specifically, but just releasing some more Generations boosters would help.

*Time in hours and minutes fixed because I had a total brain fail. Thanks @gamercal I have no idea how I managed to get that number. @_@
 
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Minor nitpick: 200 minutes is 3 hours 20 minutes, not 1 hour 40. Doesn't change your argument, but it bugged me anyhow!
 
Just getting into the TCG I seem to get plenty of codes to build any kind of deck that I have the real cards to make. The hardest cards to get were the Shaymin EX (and I wanted the 1 FA 1 reg to match what I play). I got lucky on some generations and got a jolteon-EX and traded that for some roaring skies packs, but what I've learned is that you can take a lot of EX's (even not really playable ones) and put them on trade for a pack or two of roaring skies and then keep saving packs and then post a trade for shaymin or the card you want. There are a few websites that have lists of purported pack->card ratios and you can make trades that are favorable (like a pack on your side) and it just reminds me of playing the auction house or some other trade. Between that and all the freebies you get rich on it fast and easy enough.
 
Point taken bro, I hadn't done the maths. Never bothered to climb the ladder all the way because there is nothing I want up there normally. I'm annoyed I didn't see the jirachi promos in the shop. And yeah making generations so hard to collect IRL or in game is such a dick move on the Pokemon Companies part. But rumour has it there is a generations elite trainer kit coming out. Same RRP as a normal one but with six or eight generations boosters inside. Hopefully that will drop the Jolteon market.

Pretty happy through, just sniped one off eBay for about $20 less than it's worth. :3


As for the pack trading that's how I got my alakazam deck up and running. I traded off all my full arts and secret rares of things I had anyway for Fates collide packs and traded them for alakazams. Got the whole deck built in a day of trading. Ended up costing me about eight full arts for a 4-3 line and 4 spirit links. I'm ok with that as FA doesn't mean much to me.
 
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