Ruling Shuckle-GX ability vs Energy Discard Attacks

S

Sabaku

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Shuckle-GX's ability prevents damage from a Pokemon's attacks if the user has 2 or less Energy equipped. If a Pokemon has to discard energy until it has 2 or less remaining, does Shuckle-GX still take damage?

Edit: Take Wechselbalg's example. Say a Blacephalon has 4 Energy equipped, but through its attack, it discards 2 Energy to attempt a knockout. Would Shuckle take no damage because Blacephalon discarded down to 2 or less Energy before attacking, or would it take damage normally since the user has more than 2 Energy when the attack is declared?

Edit #2: Just got it confirmed at Virginia Regionals. All Damage is calculated and delivered before energy is discarded and/or zoned, so Shuckle-GX would not be safe.
 
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@Sabaku Please provide an example of an Energy discard attack that you had in mind.

In the meantime— the text in the ability performs exactly how it is written.

Ability — Protective Shell: Prevent all damage done to this Pokemon by attacks from your opponent's Pokemon that have 2 or fewer Energy attached to them.
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If your opponent has two or less Energy when they try to attack you, their attack will fail to do damage. This won't prevent placement of damage counters, though. Damage and damage counters are considered different things. Gotta see what attack you want to use, though. They'll all say something along the lines of 'discard X energy from this Pokemon', but we'd like to have more details before we say anything specific.
 
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On PTCGO if you attack Shuckle-GX with Blacephalon-GX and you have 4 energy attached to Blacephalon and discard 2 for the attack it will fail to do damage (I tried it) - not sure if that is the official ruling or just another bug.
 
See update

An update for clarity!

Let's follow the full details of attacking from the basic rule book. During the attack phase you would have to discard fire energy for Mind Blown. If you had four on Blacephalon and discarded two, that leaves you with two. Before calculating damage you have to check for other effects or abilities. In this case the defending Shuckle-GX would have it's ability that prevents damage from Pokemon with 2 or fewer energy. Because this happens before damage, and the discard has already happened, the attack would thus fail.
 
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PokeMedic said:
An update for clarity!

Let's follow the full details of attacking from the basic rule book. During the attack phase you would have to discard fire energy for Mind Blown. If you had four on Blacephalon and discarded two, that leaves you with two. Before calculating damage you have to check for other effects or abilities. In this case the defending Shuckle-GX would have it's ability that prevents damage from Pokemon with 2 or fewer energy. Because this happens before damage, and the discard has already happened, the attack would thus fail.
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Would it be immune to Solgaleo GX, which doesn't use discarding energy as a damage condition and instead discards energy as an effect of the attack?
 
PokeMedic said:
An update for clarity!

Let's follow the full details of attacking from the basic rule book. During the attack phase you would have to discard fire energy for Mind Blown. If you had four on Blacephalon and discarded two, that leaves you with two. Before calculating damage you have to check for other effects or abilities. In this case the defending Shuckle-GX would have it's ability that prevents damage from Pokemon with 2 or fewer energy. Because this happens before damage, and the discard has already happened, the attack would thus fail.
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Incorrect. Here's the order of operations (at least from what I could find online):
1. Calculate base damage (coin flips, optional discards, etc)
2. Damage modifiers on the attacking Pokemon (Muscle Band, Steam Up, Cruel Fang, etc)
3. Weakness
4. Resistance
5. Damage modifiers on the Defending Pokemon (Hard Charm, Assault Vest, etc)
6. Any other attack effects (discarding Energy selected in Step 1, discarding Stadiums, etc)
7. Check for Knock Outs

This shows that Shuckle would in-fact take the damage from the attack.
 
The Almighty Bidoof said:
Incorrect
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I'm using what's written in the rule book to arrive at where I'm at. Wouldn't Shuckle's Effect come in to play before damage could be calculated?
  • Use Mind Blown with 4x Fire Energy
  • Discard 2x Fire Energy as required by the attack at the amount the player chooses
  • Apply the effect of Shukle's Ability in F or in 5. which would prevent damage damage done to it when the attacking Pokemon has 2 or fewer energies attached to it

RD.png
 
PokeMedic said:
I'm using what's written in the rule book to arrive at where I'm at. Wouldn't Shuckle's Effect come in to play before damage could be calculated?
  • Use Mind Blown with 4x Fire Energy
  • Discard 2x Fire Energy as required by the attack at the amount the player chooses
  • Apply the effect of Shukle's Ability in F or in 5. which would prevent damage damage done to it when the attacking Pokemon has 2 or fewer energies attached to it

RD.png
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I’m no expert. But I think lost zoning the energy is part of step f. I could be wrong on that one though.
 
Update: Shuckle-GXs ability would not prevent damage done by the scenario posted.

According to ruling on the OP forum, the proper operation for attacking would be:
  • Make choices that are required for an attack. In this case you choose X amount of [R] Energy to send to the Lost Zone.
  • Apply the damage (100 damage from 50x per [R] Energy sent)
  • Do all effects of an attack (Sending to the Lost)

Protective Shell does not get to activate before the damage is done to it. The same ruling applies to Solgaleo-GX

Tricky tricky. Now the text from the Details of Attacking read totally different to me. What you experience in PTCGO must be a bug.
 
On that note. Never ever use PTCGO as a measure for legality. It’s full of bugs.

For example. When I play Ninjask (LOT) in tournaments. It doesn’t freeze my opponent and crash the game
 
I think the different between Solgaleo GX and Blacephalon GX as below

Solgaleo GX
Sun Steel Strike : 230 damage
Discard all Energy from this pokémon

Blacephalon GX
Mind Blown : 50x
Put any amount of [F] energy attached to your pokémon into Lost zone. This attack does 50 damage for each card put in the Lost Zone in this way.

Solgaleo GX does base damage 1st to Shuckle GX then only discard the energy
Blacephalon GX do 0 base damage. Then come into the stage where attack modifier count. This is when Shuckle GX ability turn on. Then blacephalon GX calculate damage by lost zoning the energy.

I'm not too sure is this correct or not as both attack are different as 1 is fixed base damage while the other damages depend on the energy discard/lost zoning.
 
Just got it confirmed at Virginia Regionals. All Damage is calculated and delivered before energy is discarded and/or zoned, so Shuckle-GX would not be safe.
 
Sabaku said:
Just got it confirmed at Virginia Regionals. All Damage is calculated and delivered before energy is discarded and/or zoned, so Shuckle-GX would not be safe.
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As did I. It's nice to have a bow on this one.
 
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