Speculation Speculation Sunday #2: The Future of HMs

StarlightSearcher

StarlightSearcher

The Blonde Brainiac
Forum Mod
Advanced Member
Member
AQXOWQC.png

​
Welcome to Speculation Sunday
This is a weekly discussion topic where we talk about specific theories, leaks, ideas, and rumors involving the future of Pokemon.

This week we will be discussing the future of HMs. Will we see real-life objects replacing these (like a Surfboard for Surf , or a jetpack for Fly)? Or, will we be able to forget these moves without the need of the Move Deleter?

Feel free to share your own ideas or comment on other people's ideas. Remember to give detailed responses and explain your choices. And as always, keep the discussion civil.

Be sure to check out the other discussion topics for the week!
Last Week's Speculation Sunday
Metagame Monday
Teamwork Tuesday
Wi-Fi Wednesday
Theorymon Thursday
Fun Friday
Spotlight Saturday
 
By looking at the games so far, it looks like GF is really trying to not make a lot of HM moves and the latest games doesn't force you to use some of them unless you want items etc..
Still, the fact that we are in gen 6 and HM are still exist, makes it look like GF has no intention to get rid of them entirely. Which is weird since they really should listen to their customers. [I don't know about any one that is playing Pokemon and enjoy from the HM mechanics].

I think it would be great if HM moves could be simply a thing Pokemon can learn without filling a move slot. I am willing to give up on Surf for that.
 
scattered mind said:
By looking at the games so far, it looks like GF is really trying to not make a lot of HM moves and the latest games doesn't force you to use some of them unless you want items etc..
Still, the fact that we are in gen 6 and HM are still exist, makes it look like GF has no intention to get rid of them entirely. Which is weird since they really should listen to their customers. [I don't know about any one that is playing Pokemon and enjoy from the HM mechanics].

I think it would be great if HM moves could be simply a thing Pokemon can learn without filling a move slot. I am willing to give up on Surf for that.
Click to expand...
I totally agree.
 
I don't mind the ones that aren't completely useless in battle, like surf and Waterfall, but I don't like the rest very much.
 
Making HMs optional is a band-aid solution that only really works in the short term, removing them detracts from the exploration element in the game. I think the inherent concept behind the HM system is fine, the problem is that the move system makes it so that you have to balance battle moves and field moves, so essentially you have to sacrifice a Pokemon's battling capacity just to progress in the overworld. So if they want to fix the HM system they either need to make field effects independent of battle moves or allow you to teach HMs on a separate field moveset. It also wouldn't hurt to power up some of the moves and change their types so they're more useful in battle.
 
Get rid of some and keep/buff the others.


Should get rid of:

Cut - There's no point to this move, as various scratching moves like Slash and Shadow Claw could easily replace it. Just make it so that ANY damaging move that has to do with slashing with sharp claws or blades can also cut down small trees.

Strength - I think of Strength as another move like Cut, where its HM status could be replaced by a field move type. This time I think various strong punching/kicking moves, like Mega Punch and Super Power could replace it.

Rock Smash - Pretty much any physical fighting type move could replace this.


Should Buff:

Flash - Change it so that other moves to do with light like Tail Glow can make surrounding areas light up. Also, have it make accuracy go down by 2 or 3 stages instead of just 1.

Defog - Out of Battle other gust-like moves do the same thing. Another thing, is like Flash, it should have its power increased to 2 or 3 stages.

Rock Climb - Change it to fighting type.
 
I feel like the HMs that have power/usability in a battle (Surf, Waterfall, Strength, Fly) should be purposed and become regular moves.

HMs like Flash (well, it was one), Cut, Defog can easily be replaced by simple tools (flashlight/torch, saw...)
 
@Tails; Having items instead of moves goes against the spirit of the franchise. The idea behind HMs is to promote the idea of people and Pokemon working together, if you use items instead of Pokemon to progress in the overworld it devalues your Pokemon into little more than battling tools, which is the exact opposite message they're trying to send.
 
There should be a way to promote the spirit without having to be tied to the moves. I feel like if the HMs were to be freely deleted, it would make 'em a little more usable.

I mean, promoting the idea of people and Pokemon working together is kind of moot if you have a Pokemon like a Bidoof having it's entire movepool devoted to HMs.
 
Tails said:
There should be a way to promote the spirit without having to be tied to the moves. I feel like if the HMs were to be freely deleted, it would make 'em a little more usable.
Click to expand...

The problem with being able to delete HMs is that you can end up trapping yourself. Having to delete HMs from the Move Deleter is a failsafe.

Tails said:
I mean, promoting the idea of people and Pokemon working together is kind of moot if you have a Pokemon like a Bidoof having it's entire movepool devoted to HMs.
Click to expand...

That was my point earlier, though. Removing HMs altogether is looking at the problem from the wrong angle, it's not the HM system itself that's broken, it's that you have to sacrifice a battle move to use them that's the problem.
 
Bolt the Cat said:
That was my point earlier, though. Removing HMs altogether is looking at the problem from the wrong angle, it's not the HM system itself that's broken, it's that you have to sacrifice a battle move to use them that's the problem.
Click to expand...

Like I said; moves like Surf, Strength, Waterfall and Fly have in-battle purposes to go alongside with their overworld purposes.

What should happen is the HMs need to be evenly weighed, Surf and Fly shouldn't be overused when compared to Cut or Rock Smash or Defog.
 
I've had an idea for this issue for many years now and still wish it was the one they'd implement ASAP.

Every species of Pokemon is now given 1 or 2 out of 8 possible Field-skills. Those are not moves. The only function they have is a function outside of battles. And using those needs to be unlocked by gathering enough gym badges.

For example, let's say the 8 Field-skills of a game are the following list:
#1 Smashing (for destroying obstacles)
#2 Shining (for illuminating dark places)
#3 Digging (for finding underground caves)
#4 Pushing (for moving obstacles that cannot be destroyed)
#5 Swimming (for transportation across water)
#6 Teleporting (for instantly travelling between places)
#7 Climbing (for getting across osbtacles that cannot be destroyed or moved)
#8 Soaring (for travelling in the sky)

Let's say all Pelliper have the Field-skills Swimming and Soaring. As soon as you obtain 5 badges, you can use a Pelliper to cross water-areas, and after obtaining all 8, you can use it to soar above the region.

In this system, you cannot make HM-slaves as the most Field-skills a Pokemon can have is 2, and there would be plenty that only have one.
Instead you want to make sure your team is at least somewhat diverse and isn't made up of Pokemon with the exact same Field-skills.
You'll want something that can swim eventually, something that is physically strong enough to move big boulders.
But more than one of these would be optional (making it even less restrictive), like illuminating areas or Teleporting, where it is more about being convenient if a Pokemon you use naturally generates light or is a psychic, rather than being necessary to have those to get somewhere or to something.
So if you just make a full team with 6 random members, chances are you'll be able to overcome all overworld obstacles...unless you were making something extremely gimmicky like an all-fish team or one made up entirely of weak Pikachu rip-offs or something. But it would not make you waste move-slots to temporarely un-deletable moves as the current system does.

If my example list was the actual one, then I'd distribute the Field-skills as follows:
Shining would apply to all Pokemon that generate any sort of light as well as some that passively don't (most Fire, Elctric types, some Fairy etc types)
Soaring would only be given to Pokemon that are capable of flight but are actually big enough to carry you (Salamence yes, Pidgey no)
Similarly swimming would require a Pokemon to be big enough and capable of staying afloat rather than simply being a Water type which is not a requirement (so Lapras/Krookodile yes, Finneon/Trapinch no)
Digging requires any sort of claws and includes a lot of Pokemon that can learn Dig via TM
Teleporting includes all Pokemon that currently learn Teleport naturally as well as some other specific ones (most Psychics, Ghosts etc.)
Pushing would require a strong body (think Emboar or generic Fighting types)
Smashing would be anything that doesn't have other field-skills and learns any kind of punching/kicking or slashing moves at all.
 
Mitja said:
I've had an idea for this issue for many years now and still wish it was the one they'd implement ASAP.

Every species of Pokemon is now given 1 or 2 out of 8 possible Field-skills. Those are not moves. The only function they have is a function outside of battles. And using those needs to be unlocked by gathering enough gym badges.

For example, let's say the 8 Field-skills of a game are the following list:
#1 Smashing (for destroying obstacles)
#2 Shining (for illuminating dark places)
#3 Digging (for finding underground caves)
#4 Pushing (for moving obstacles that cannot be destroyed)
#5 Swimming (for transportation across water)
#6 Teleporting (for instantly travelling between places)
#7 Climbing (for getting across osbtacles that cannot be destroyed or moved)
#8 Soaring (for travelling in the sky)

Let's say all Pelliper have the Field-skills Swimming and Soaring. As soon as you obtain 5 badges, you can use a Pelliper to cross water-areas, and after obtaining all 8, you can use it to soar above the region.

In this system, you cannot make HM-slaves as the most Field-skills a Pokemon can have is 2, and there would be plenty that only have one.
Instead you want to make sure your team is at least somewhat diverse and isn't made up of Pokemon with the exact same Field-skills.
You'll want something that can swim eventually, something that is physically strong enough to move big boulders.
But more than one of these would be optional (making it even less restrictive), like illuminating areas or Teleporting, where it is more about being convenient if a Pokemon you use naturally generates light or is a psychic, rather than being necessary to have those to get somewhere or to something.
So if you just make a full team with 6 random members, chances are you'll be able to overcome all overworld obstacles...unless you were making something extremely gimmicky like an all-fish team or one made up entirely of weak Pikachu rip-offs or something. But it would not make you waste move-slots to temporarely un-deletable moves as the current system does.
Click to expand...

That's a great idea. The problem is that almost every Pokemon would have at least one skill and if you are in the middle of "nowhere" in game, and you'd want to trade one of the Pokemon via Wonder/Regular trade, then you wouldn't be able to. The reason is the same as for HMs. You can't trade a Pokemon with HM because you might get stuck [for example, if you would be able to trade a Pokemon with Surf and you are on an island, then you're stuck in it since you don't have any other Pokemon who knows how to use Surf]
The fact that the skills would be build in the Pokemon, would mean that every time you'd want to trade it, you would have to put it in the PC first.
 
A fix for that would be to just put an NPC that teleports you out of a place you might get stuck at.

But would it be that much of a problem if you simply couldn't trade the Pokemon you have with you right now in the middle of some mountain?
Which gives me another idea... how about every location in the game is categorized as "free" or "field-skill required", and it's only the latter ones on which it would be impossible to trade from your party?
Meaning,
any city or town? You can trade your team away
you're on a random route? You can trade your team awway
at wherever you're hatching eggs? You can trade them
3 levels deep in victory road? Nope. Bad signal :^)
 
Mitja said:
A fix for that would be to just put an NPC that teleports you out of a place you might get stuck at.
Click to expand...

Maybe have something like the PokeGear/Poketch to call someone if you're stuck in a bind and cannot use the Teleport Field Move for whatever reason. Maybe have NPCs and assign them to particular roles.

(I.E.: The Psychic is the Teleporter, the Fisherman can support you with the Swimming Field Move...)
 
I've got an idea for some of them.

cut - Shovel [dig up the tree]
Fly - ?
Surf - Surfboard
Strength - Power Gloves [if Link can do it...]
Rock Smash - Pickaxe
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top