Discussion Stance on Stage 2 Decks

sweetbrieR20

sweetbrieR20

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I'm curious about what people think of playing stage 2 decks now with the ushering of Tag Team Pokemon. Quite a few of the Pokemon I like happen to be stage 2s, but their setups now seem to bring less rewarding payoffs than that of Tag Teams. How do you see their place in the TCG in general? Do you guys still find them worth playing?
 
I think stage 2 will be challenging without timer or ultra ball. GX stage 2s will still have electromagnetic radar, but those are two prize and thus worse against Tag teams. Green’s Exploration makes them easier, but without a good way to search them out I see it being harder until we get more Pokémon search.
 
Towards the next format certain Stage 2s are going to be in a bad spot. As of right now only two stage 2s are looking like they have some viability. Aegislash and Dragonite GX.

Aegislash has a great ability which allows it to return to the hand after a Knock out, can utilized Dusk Stone with Doublade, and can hit 130 which is barely 2HKOing some TTGXs. Along with Recycle energy + Meganium, you have an "infinite" attacker. If you can get the set up of course.

Dragonite GX is bulky, can hit for 270 in one turn KOing TTGXs, also has a lot of support around it.

The positive about both of them is that they can both be searched out with Mysterious Treasure making them that much more consistent.

I'm excited to try out Aegislash and see where that can go because it looks like it has some potential as a Non-gx attacker.
 
Stage 2's are...tricky, particularly focusing on the upcoming rotation.

With the loss of Ultra Ball I feel like non-GX stage 2s have basically become dead cards, or you have to run 4 copies of them in order to pull them on top of rare candy. Stage 2 GX's can still live on with the power of Green's Exploration (search for Cherish Ball and Rare Candy) and set up cards like Professor Elm's Lecture, but compared against Tag Team or basic GX decks (Ray/Zeraora) who are running turn 1 Lillie, Stage 2 decks fall "behind" really fast since they might have their set up, but if they aren't drawing cards then they don't have follow up. I've tried playing Lillie in Stage 2 decks to "keep up" with other decks, but since Stage 2 decks have a lot less turn 1 playable cards (can't play your rare candy or Stage 2s on turn 1, of course), Lillie usually ends up drawing less, and usually doesn't draw me into my set up since you need so many more cards to get it done.

On the contrary, now that Dedenne GX is going to take over as the best bench sitter until further notice, you could combine Elm's Lecture and Green's Exploration and still bench a Dedenne GX (after you play Green).

I do think in general though that Tag Teams have fundamentally replaced Stage 2s. You only need to run 2-3 Tag Teams as opposed to 4 basics, 4 rare candy, 3-4 Stage 2s, and then you have to add Elm/Green/more copies of Dedenne GX than other decks to increase consistency. And since Lele is rotating, you can't guarantee T1 Professor Elm nearly as much with Pokegear 3.0 that can't be searched out without expending your supporter per turn on Green.

Relative deck space in general is a problem Stage 2s have always faced that I think will be the main thing that keeps them down.
 
Pre-rotation, Stage 2 decks do have some Pokémon setup support and you still need time (1-2 turns) to ideally setup them up. You also need X number of support cards to facilitate the setup (e.g., Rare Candy). So, in most cases, Stage 2 decks are inherently "slow." Further, you may incorporate some Basic Pokémon to serve as an initial attacker (e.g., Buzzwole GX) to apply some early damage and pressure in order to buy you some time to setup your main, Stage 2 Pokémon line(s). Again, this tactic could be helpful, but you could also lose a few prizes while you're still in setup mode. It's not unlikely that you could be playing from behind in the prize count (1-2 prizes?) by turn 4... However, some Stage 2 based decks (e.g., Vikavolt-Rayquaza GX) have great "comeback" capability. Finding a good Basic Pokémon to pair with your Stage 2 Pokémon is very important; the deck needs to have a "well balanced" set of support (Pokémon search, card-draw support, Pokémon line setup, energy, etc.); and the deck needs to be as "fast" (i.e., least amount of turns needed before you can attack) as possible in order to compete well too.

Post-rotation, a lot of Pokémon setup cards (Rare Candy, Ultra Ball, etc.) are unavailable; so, this makes running a Stage 2 deck competitively even more difficult. But, I also believe in playing decks I like and accepting perhaps the higher risks associated with that deck. So, I suggest you play the deck you like even if it is a Stage 2 and just prepare to compete against other faster decks as best as you can.

My overall stance now and post-rotation is that I don't like any Stage 2 based decks due to a variety of concerns including those mentioned above.
 
TuxedoBlack said:
Pre-rotation, Stage 2 decks do have some Pokémon setup support and you still need time (1-2 turns) to ideally setup them up. You also need X number of support cards to facilitate the setup (e.g., Rare Candy). So, in most cases, Stage 2 decks are inherently "slow." Further, you may incorporate some Basic Pokémon to serve as an initial attacker (e.g., Buzzwole GX) to apply some early damage and pressure in order to buy you some time to setup your main, Stage 2 Pokémon line(s). Again, this tactic could be helpful, but you could also lose a few prizes while you're still in setup mode. It's not unlikely that you could be playing from behind in the prize count (1-2 prizes?) by turn 4... However, some Stage 2 based decks (e.g., Vikavolt-Rayquaza GX) have great "comeback" capability. Finding a good Basic Pokémon to pair with your Stage 2 Pokémon is very important; the deck needs to have a "well balanced" set of support (Pokémon search, card-draw support, Pokémon line setup, energy, etc.); and the deck needs to be as "fast" (i.e., least amount of turns needed before you can attack) as possible in order to compete well too.

Post-rotation, a lot of Pokémon setup cards (Rare Candy, Ultra Ball, etc.) are unavailable; so, this makes running a Stage 2 deck competitively even more difficult. But, I also believe in playing decks I like and accepting perhaps the higher risks associated with that deck. So, I suggest you play the deck you like even if it is a Stage 2 and just prepare to compete against other faster decks as best as you can.

My overall stance now and post-rotation is that I don't like any Stage 2 based decks due to a variety of concerns including those mentioned above.
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Rare Candy is most recently available in Celestial Storm, so it's available still.
 
I've been testing a Porygon build and I got Z out turn 2 almost every game. So it's not too inconsistent
 
The thing about stage 2s right now is that very few of them actually pay off for the trouble of setting them up. It's not like stage 2s have OHKO potential nowadays against Tag Team'ers, so that puts them in a very awkward position.

But, for those very few that might be a thing, I believe UNB gave us the cornerstone on which they should be built upon: Persian-GX. Of course, it only works if we're talking about GX set-ups, but if you can set-up your first attacker, it rewards you with a smooth transition to endgame that not even Alolan Ninetales-GX could give.

jamashawalker said:
Towards the next format certain Stage 2s are going to be in a bad spot. As of right now only two stage 2s are looking like they have some viability. Aegislash and Dragonite GX.
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This assessment is very close to my own thoughts and I'll be looking at Dragonite very carefully. As someone who hates Big Basics formats, it is my beacon of hope during those dark days...;)
 
A lot of good points. I'm still on the fence... but maybe on the less pessimistic side things when talking about stage 2 pokemon. I suspect that because of their awkward placement in the tcg now, that people won't see them for more than potential deck engines to be partnered with other basic or stage 1s, in the same vein as Vikavolt, Magnezone, or Blastoise do. And I find that a little sad, because a lot of interesting attacks and abilities belong to stage 2s.

I don't think they're as unplayable as people describe them to be, but I do agree that there's little incentive to play them, despite what they can do. Especially when there are more and more decks out there that can practically set themselves up. I doubt that it'll happen soon with the ushering in of the Tag Team cards, but I hope that the tcg with come up with trainer cards along the way, that can also keep stage 2s viable.
 
sweetbrieR20 said:
I'm curious about what people think of playing stage 2 decks now with the ushering of Tag Team Pokemon. Quite a few of the Pokemon I like happen to be stage 2s, but their setups now seem to bring less rewarding payoffs than that of Tag Teams. How do you see their place in the TCG in general? Do you guys still find them worth playing?
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My response, like most players, is affected by the current meta where the "top" decks currently and the soon post-rotation season are perhaps "dominated" by mostly Basic and Stage 1 based Pokémon variants. In most cases, these decks can/are normally attacking by T2 at the latest, and may be taking a prize by then. So, "setup speed" and "time to attack" will generally be in those decks' favor versus Stage 2 based decks.

Further, when you consider the necessary "extra" cards (Rare Candy, Mysterious Treasure, Net Ball, Pokémon Fan Club, Pokémon Communication, Professor Elm's Lecture, etc.) one needs to support a consistent Stage 2 deck, getting what you need when needed can be a real challenge, and more difficult versus mostly Basic and/or Stage 1 based deck.

However, I am a strong believer in playing decks I like too. So, after building your Stage 2 deck, test it thoroughly against "top" decks. Revise your deck accordingly; test it again, again, etc. After you've refined your deck as best as you can, recognize your "bad" match-ups and perhaps incorporate some counters. But, after all your testing, determine if and how competitive your deck is - if this is important to you... Consider making your final decision then.
 
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There are some stage 2 decks outside the norm consistency-wise. For example, Chandelure UNM has mysterious treasure to find Litwick and Lampent, and Dusk Stone to "cheat" it into play turn 2. I imagine if more of these evolution stones are printed then stage twos (or at least some) could become more prominent, but until then I don't think they're consistent enough to chain attackers.
 
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