Discussion Standard is much more balanced

F

Fafnirchaos

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hello,

I'm new to the forums(Just saying hi)

Anyways I'm been playing standard a lot since rotation and just recently went back into Expanded for the first time since.. and Holy shoot, I've never conceded so many times during the first 2 turns of any match I've played since I started playing.

First turn opponent puts down his entire bench plays red card - I concede.
Opening match - times 3 - night march deck - I concede.
Second Turn opponent removes my energy from my main attacker(on bench) judges me then kills my draw supporter - I concede.

Expanded feels like the High powered Troll decks compared to what standard is. Maybe it's because my mind is thinking standard when creating decks, however even still the decks that are out there being used are for instant wins, and to be that's boring. I don't mind losing if the game is interesting however insta-wins are just cancerous.

Pride takes the devil's side in expanded. (Who knows what lies in unlimited, I won't venture out into that territory)
 
I can agree. The problem is that Expanded has a whole lot, like years and years’ worth of cards to choose from. They banned some, which helps a holy ton. Still, cards like VS Seeker and Shaymin EX and Trevenant rule the format as powerful cards capable of insane speed and power. Cards in Expanded haunt tournaments today as they did years ago. Expanded combos can be maximized to ludicrous speed and lethality because of these massive card pools to choose from. All we can hope to do is keep up.

Also, Unlimited isn’t actually a format, because numbers before Black and White are lower than they are today.
 
Well expanded is a ohko format much like our current standard expanded is a bit more efficient about getting the one shots early. you just gotta play one as well or something that can counter the popular stuff you have the same tools at your disposal as they do. Of course theres nothing you can do about getting red carded to a dead hand especially with how bad the rng in tcgo is but the same could be said for marshadow in standard.
 
AuraJackle said:
Well expanded is a ohko format much like our current standard expanded is a bit more efficient about getting the one shots early. you just gotta play one as well or something that can counter the popular stuff you have the same tools at your disposal as they do. Of course theres nothing you can do about getting red carded to a dead hand especially with how bad the rng in tcgo is but the same could be said for marshadow in standard.
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The good part about marshadow or judge is that it has the potential of dead handing the user you puts it down, so in that sense it has a somewhat balance to it, It's not really an insta-win, it can be if the user gets a good hand while opponent gets a bad hand however that is 50/50. I survived a 1st turn marshadow hand quite a few times already. However red card is your hand is 4 cards while my hand is ready for attack. That's non survive-able especially on first turn, I'm just surprised that card is not banned at all?

Also Yes I stay away from expanded, With lost thunder coming out I can just wait it till I can play with some new cards.

Lord Goomy said:
I can agree. The problem is that Expanded has a whole lot, like years and years’ worth of cards to choose from. They banned some, which helps a holy ton. Still, cards like VS Seeker and Shaymin EX and Trevenant rule the format as powerful cards capable of insane speed and power. Cards in Expanded haunt tournaments today as they did years ago. Expanded combos can be maximized to ludicrous speed and lethality because of these massive card pools to choose from. All we can hope to do is keep up.

Also, Unlimited isn’t actually a format, because numbers before Black and White are lower than they are today.
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Yeah... I'm not even bothering wasting tickets on an Expanded Tournament, I'll stick with standard, as I have better cards for standard then I do for Expanded.

As for Unlimited, I didn't even know that it wasn't a format. I seen the symbol in deck creation and assumed that it was, and that there is where all the banned cards get played.
 
Lord Goomy said:
Unlimited isn’t actually a format
Click to expand...

What did he mean by this?
rsz_1rsz_thinking.png
 
Losing to Trev and Night March sounds like a deck construction thing. There are powerful techs against March. The Trev matchup sounds like you might not be using enough supporters. I actually find Trev to be super fair now that they can't lock you turn 1.
It also sounds like you ARE playing against troll decks since I haven't personally seen many Red Cards and Judges since the ban. The decks that use either (mostly Zoro) got much weaker from the bannings and BuzzRoc getting more popular. What are you playing? Can we look under the hood?
 
I mean, anything in Standard is a breath of fresh air after playing Expanded. The Expanded format is the sole reason I quit the game. I realized I could never make a future in this game with the Expanded format around. Rather than keeping the game fresh and balanced, they rather continue on with OHKO attacks and broken Abilities. I liked Pokemon when it was skill based. Nowadays, skill plays backseat to just throwing your deck at the opponent. The actual problem is Pokemon underwent this oversimplification where if you have bigger numbers, you simply win.

I honestly felt Mega Evolution added another of depth to the game and team design. If you knew what could mega, then you knew who the threats could be, even if more than one mega were on a team. You could even point out a players team structure based on their mega but with Z-Moves, any Pokemon could have a random nuke at the press of a button. Not that my Pidgeot deck was a worlds level deck or anything but when you have a Pokemon OHKO a 220 HP Pokemon with a resistance top the thing killing it in one hit, you know you have a problem. They need to just reset the game and fix... this.
 
Expert_Occultist said:
Losing to Trev and Night March sounds like a deck construction thing. There are powerful techs against March. The Trev matchup sounds like you might not be using enough supporters. I actually find Trev to be super fair now that they can't lock you turn 1.
It also sounds like you ARE playing against troll decks since I haven't personally seen many Red Cards and Judges since the ban. The decks that use either (mostly Zoro) got much weaker from the bannings and BuzzRoc getting more popular. What are you playing? Can we look under the hood?
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To make this post short I'm just going to place Pokemon to this reply, That way You can get a base of what I was thinking when creating.

Glowlithe/Arcanine(SM:BS)/Arcanine Break

Fennekin/Braixen/Delphox(Mystical Fire)/Delphox Break

Tapu lele gx

Victini Prism star.

SM Arcanine has a strong attack however it's lacking in HP and loses Energy, I was trying to make it more tanky while having the ability to recharge quickly while my Opponent gets burned in between turns. Worst case Scenario I use Delphox as a 1 shot.

crystal_pidgeot said:
I mean, anything in Standard is a breath of fresh air after playing Expanded. The Expanded format is the sole reason I quit the game. I realized I could never make a future in this game with the Expanded format around. Rather than keeping the game fresh and balanced, they rather continue on with OHKO attacks and broken Abilities. I liked Pokemon when it was skill based. Nowadays, skill plays backseat to just throwing your deck at the opponent. The actual problem is Pokemon underwent this oversimplification where if you have bigger numbers, you simply win.

I honestly felt Mega Evolution added another of depth to the game and team design. If you knew what could mega, then you knew who the threats could be, even if more than one mega were on a team. You could even point out a players team structure based on their mega but with Z-Moves, any Pokemon could have a random nuke at the press of a button. Not that my Pidgeot deck was a worlds level deck or anything but when you have a Pokemon OHKO a 220 HP Pokemon with a resistance top the thing killing it in one hit, you know you have a problem. They need to just reset the game and fix... this.
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While I do understand what you mean about numbers, There are a lot of decks in standard that barely do any damage but win anyways, just by stalling out or milling, or if anybody can make one viable... Poison. Having abilities means that any card in the game can be strong enough to destroy a large HP card with out it being 2 large HP cards hashing it out with the first person attacking auto win.

I'm not familiar with older sets or cards(I just started last year) however I do know a lot about games and I know that If a game doesn't evolve and change it becomes stale and people start questioning why their buying the same game over again if nothing new is brought to the table. The same can be applied to this, you can just look at thew newer sets as a newer version with newer strats.

Edit: Also I don't even bother Going Expanded, It's like a veterans playground. I'll stick with what I'm good at.
 
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Fafnirchaos said:
To make this post short I'm just going to place Pokemon to this reply, That way You can get a base of what I was thinking when creating.

Glowlithe/Arcanine(SM:BS)/Arcanine Break

Fennekin/Braixen/Delphox(Mystical Fire)/Delphox Break

Tapu lele gx

Victini Prism star.

SM Arcanine has a strong attack however it's lacking in HP and loses Energy, I was trying to make it more tanky while having the ability to recharge quickly while my Opponent gets burned in between turns. Worst case Scenario I use Delphox as a 1 shot.



While I do understand what you mean about numbers, There are a lot of decks in standard that barely do any damage but win anyways, just by stalling out or milling, or if anybody can make one viable... Poison. Having abilities means that any card in the game can be strong enough to destroy a large HP card with out it being 2 large HP cards hashing it out with the first person attacking auto win.

I'm not familiar with older sets or cards(I just started last year) however I do know a lot about games and I know that If a game doesn't evolve and change it becomes stale and people start questioning why their buying the same game over again if nothing new is brought to the table. The same can be applied to this, you can just look at thew newer sets as a newer version with newer strats.
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Unfortunately, it seems like you're playing a homebrew against meta decks. You're not fighting troll decks just well established strategies. It might sound harsh but you might have to find an established deck you like to play if you want to fight with the big boys. The same can be said about Standard. This sounds less like a complaint about Expanded and more of a complaint about competitive tcgs as a whole.

I also disagree about the Pokemon tcg never evolving. The card Shrine of Punishment did more to change the game than pretty much any card before it. Because of it, people are opting to play more non-gx/exs which are causing a shift from Choice Band to Muscle Band again. It changed how people build decks entirely.
 
Expert_Occultist said:
Unfortunately, it seems like you're playing a homebrew against meta decks. You're not fighting troll decks just well established strategies. It might sound harsh but you might have to find an established deck you like to play if you want to fight with the big boys. The same can be said about Standard. This sounds less like a complaint about Expanded and more of a complaint about competitive tcgs as a whole.

I also disagree about the Pokemon tcg never evolving. The card Shrine of Punishment did more to change the game than pretty much any card before it. Because of it, people are opting to play more non-gx/exs which are causing a shift from Choice Band to Muscle Band again. It changed how people build decks entirely.
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It is a strat It tanks while providing huge damage (190) obviously it won't go up to meta decks(quick 1 shotters), however it could have at least lasted against Counter decks, Like i said way back that I was building it with standard in mind. This deck alone would have lasted in Standard for longer then 2 turns, and probably made a decent match up, However with the cards in Expanded it's harder to make a deck that isn't experimental, as it is just a faster version of Standard with broken cards. Which in my mind is a cancerous mess.

Also Not to sound harsh or anything But I was making a point about the game evolving, So idk where you where coming with that.
 
That's the thing about breaks, they're Stage 2s that can't be ramped into with Rare Candy. This, makes them too slow even in Standard. If you want to experiment you might want to add techs to beat certain decks you come across often. Things like Oricorio (supernatural dance) or Karen go a long way to making Night Marsh very beatable at the cost of a single deck slot. Oricorio is especially nice with your big HP strategy since it severely punishes the March player from just dumping dudes into the discard to one-shot your big doge.

Also, I apologize about the game evolving comment as I didn't realize that was a response to Pidgeot. (At the risk of getting a posting infraction) I usually ignore everything he writes anyway :p
 
Expert_Occultist said:
That's the thing about breaks, they're Stage 2s that can't be ramped into with Rare Candy. This, makes them too slow even in Standard. If you want to experiment you might want to add techs to beat certain decks you come across often. Things like Oricorio (supernatural dance) or Karen go a long way to making Night Marsh very beatable at the cost of a single deck slot. Oricorio is especially nice with your big HP strategy since it severely punishes the March player from just dumping dudes into the discard to one-shot your big doge.

Also, I apologize about the game evolving comment as I didn't realize that was a response to Pidgeot. (At the risk of getting a posting infraction) I usually ignore everything he writes anyway :p
Click to expand...

Yeah No worries, No hard feelings.

The slow issue with Arcanine Break would have been countered with Kiawe as I would have at least one shotted 1 card from taking me out by turn 3 or at least burned him if he was dead drawing no energies, or just prepping on bench if I went first, Or bench prepped myself if I went second. Not much I could about Delphox however it does have draw support ability so i can at least wait 1 turn for that, but with delphox's break ability I can charge Arcanine so much faster while having a draw support for 1 bench slot. I may look into your suggestion as I never considered it, I may even us it in standard(Really like that kindle attack)

Also I just quit when I see March decks as I know how they work, and the only way I would even stand a chance is if I'm running a bench damage deck like Tapu Koko I wouldn't even add it to this deck as it would be too much of a hassle to get running and would only work with a Zoroark-GX/Magcargo match up(That I can think of), that way the moment one goes down you can get the second one up in no time.

However I don't know many cards from previous sets other then recent so it's really hard for me to know whats coming next. also certain cards like Marshadow-gx make march decks even tankier which is scary for that reason alone(We'll probably see some of it play with Lost march when Lost thunder comes out)
 
Fafnirchaos said:
To make this post short I'm just going to place Pokemon to this reply, That way You can get a base of what I was thinking when creating.

Glowlithe/Arcanine(SM:BS)/Arcanine Break

Fennekin/Braixen/Delphox(Mystical Fire)/Delphox Break

Tapu lele gx

Victini Prism star.

SM Arcanine has a strong attack however it's lacking in HP and loses Energy, I was trying to make it more tanky while having the ability to recharge quickly while my Opponent gets burned in between turns. Worst case Scenario I use Delphox as a 1 shot.



While I do understand what you mean about numbers, There are a lot of decks in standard that barely do any damage but win anyways, just by stalling out or milling, or if anybody can make one viable... Poison. Having abilities means that any card in the game can be strong enough to destroy a large HP card with out it being 2 large HP cards hashing it out with the first person attacking auto win.

I'm not familiar with older sets or cards(I just started last year) however I do know a lot about games and I know that If a game doesn't evolve and change it becomes stale and people start questioning why their buying the same game over again if nothing new is brought to the table. The same can be applied to this, you can just look at thew newer sets as a newer version with newer strats.

Edit: Also I don't even bother Going Expanded, It's like a veterans playground. I'll stick with what I'm good at.
Click to expand...

Even in a stall decks case, its still about numbers. Its just its number can be bigger, which allows it to work. There is also an uncomfortable about of disruption in the game right now. I dont want to say the game has never changed. The first ex block all the way to the end of HGSS, then Black and White happen. The game changed to big numbers and big basics. Sometimes a cool deck comes out and then something like Mewtwo EX happens. When something cool can happen, something else breaks it.

Expert_Occultist said:
That's the thing about breaks, they're Stage 2s that can't be ramped into with Rare Candy. This, makes them too slow even in Standard. If you want to experiment you might want to add techs to beat certain decks you come across often. Things like Oricorio (supernatural dance) or Karen go a long way to making Night Marsh very beatable at the cost of a single deck slot. Oricorio is especially nice with your big HP strategy since it severely punishes the March player from just dumping dudes into the discard to one-shot your big doge.

Also, I apologize about the game evolving comment as I didn't realize that was a response to Pidgeot. (At the risk of getting a posting infraction) I usually ignore everything he writes anyway :p
Click to expand...

I try to address everyone if something interesting was said.
 
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