Discussion Strategies for Dealing with Item Lock

[poke4trade]

According to the Charizard Lounge, three of the top five decks our as followed:

Trevenant BREAK
Seismitoad EX (Hammers)
Vileplume/Vespiquen

What is your practice strategy for Item Lock - join them or counter them?

 

[Vulpix Yolk]

Dealing with item lock is something that can be difficult for a lot of people because there aren't always solid counters that you can put into deck to beat it. You have to look at the entirety of your deck and play-style to beat lock decks. If I am concerned about item lock, I look at my whole deck and ask myself if my deck could function without the item cards. If the answer is no, you need to find ways to cut out the dependence on items. Maybe look to a slightly more heavy supporter or pokemon based draw engine instead of relying on value trainers. Look for the pokemon in your deck that are easiest to step up, stuff like Manectric EX, Lucario EX, Yveltal EX, etc., are effective against locks because all they need to be a menacing threat are several basic energy cards. Come into the matchup with an outline strategy of how you can function without trainers, but don't go overkill in the deck building process to counter them. Make sure to be aware of the dead weight in your deck and try to thin it out early game, drawing into garbage that you could have discarded with ultra balls turn one instead of the sycamore you are looking for can be frustrating.

 

[Sabaku]

Gotta go with Vulpix Yolk on this one. There's really no catch-all method for dealing with Item lock in general. Stopping Toad's item lock is straightforward enough with the new Marowak coming out, but then you got Pokemon like Trevenant and Vileplume, who are really the most prevalent source of item lock. Against those, your only means of preventing a total item lock is to either run Garbotoxin Garbodor, which may or may not work, btw, due to both of them having the potential to set up on the first turn, or get a lucky Hex Maniac when you got a good hand. At this point, there exists no legitimate means of stopping Item Lock without sacrificing good resources, and even when you do, it's up in the air how much it helps you. It's an issue that I pray TPCi addresses in later releases (at least the new Marowak shows that TPCi is aware of the problem).

The most you can do right now is build your deck so that it isn't as reliant on item cards. That's really the only advice I can give right now. If you find yourself using Compressor, you can just use that to strip away the more unnecessary cards and increase your odds.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Both @Vulpix Yolk and @Sabaku made some very good points. With Spring Regional torunaments approaching, EXPECT that some of your opponents will run 1 of the aforementioned decks.

When I do build decks, I try to achieve a "good" balance between both Item and Supporter cards recognizing that Item-lock is very much part of today's game. After incorporatting my chosen deck Pokémon, consistency cards, and energy, I then consider incorporating my "special out (of trouble - lol)" cards like AZ, Cassius, Fisherman, Hex Maniac, etc.

Of the 3 decks mentioned above, I only run Trevenant BREAK which is 1 of my 4 choices for Regionals. Given my other 3 choices are not either Toad-Tina, Toad-Hammers, Toad-Bats, nor VespiPlume, I fall into the category of "intend to beat those 3 decks."

 

[poke4trade]

@TuxedoBlack @Vulpix Yolk @Sabaku I think these are some well thought out posts and have all good points. What I think is the most prevalent from Item lock is not the lock itself, but the counter measure of energy disruption. I've tested a lot of games and the lock really doesn't matter as long you have energy on the board. More specifically, if basic energy remains on the board, the lock, though annoying, can get overwhelmed. My hope is, though it is a long shot, is that new Carbink card might help some.

Vespiqueen deck has players counter measuring with Enetie (AT). I think out of all lock decks, the Trev deck presents some challenges. But I don't think the Trev is as potent if it can't discard basic energy for a round or two. I think it will give enough time for cards like Yveltal and Manetric to charge up. What card I think might see some play is PFC because you search for the pokemon under item lock distress. Also a rouge Silent Lab is a clutch play off a Skyla. Silent Lab really messes with those slow draw decks.

In expanded because there is Archelops, I believe it holds some players at bay, and it is one of the reason why lock decks can be a tough play at times.

Now, having said all this, I tend join the item lockers when practicing and playing. I think the reason being is that pokemon gives very easy and simple mechanics to wipe out approx. 2/3 of some one decks in a single turn. All the other ways are more complex mechanics to stop item lock. By providing these simple mechanics, I don't see why pokemon doesn't adjust the game for simpler mechanics in the other arch types, but that's another conversation.

I do tend to practice with item lock decks and practice against them. I think you need to fully understand the decks to play against them, but with all the locking decks out there it is a definite reach for trainers to counter measure them.

 

[Ivy_Profen]

If it's expanded. I find one of the easiest ways to deal with all 3 decks is just to play virgen. Generally it has a pretty good match up imo.

Seismitoad gets OHKOed. Red signal the vileplume. Trevenant can be red signaled around as well. If they don't play carefully and only have trevenant out.