Ruling swift vs. stance

D

Draekfist

I pwn noobz
Member
If I stance cario Lv.X and my opponent uses swift the next turn, what would be the result. damage or no damage
 
I think yes to both, it goes through powers, and any other effects on the defending pokemon, and a metal energy is another effect
 
Pokeric is right on both counts.
 
I entered a weekly tournament once and i used swift on a kingdra ex d. As you all know swift goes through EVERYTHING but everybody in the tournament said it cant go through extra smoke. Please help.
 
I thought so too, but then I saw this:

Compendium said:
== EXTRA SMOKE (Kingdra EX - EX:Dragon Frontiers)

Q. Say I have a Kingra-EX with "Extra Smoke" on the bench and a Stage 2 Pokémon-EX Active (other than Kingdra-EX). If my opponent attacks with "Swift" does it ignore "Extra Smoke" or not?
A. The effect of Extra Smoke is always attached to whatever Pokémon that the opponent attacks with, not on the Defending Pokémon nor even on the benched Kingdra-EX. And since Swift only ignores effects on the Defending Pokémon (not the player or Pokémon attacking with Swift), it does NOT ignore Extra Smoke and damage is reduced by -10. (Feb 22, 2007 PUI Rules Team)
Click to expand...

I hope you can understand that.

This is like, the only thing in the universe that nullifies Swift <_<
 
When dealing with damage modification effects, it helps to view the attack as a chain:
  • Base damage
  • Effects on Attacking Pokemon
  • Weakness/Resistance
  • Effects on Defending Pokemon
The damage starts at the top (base damage), runs through any effects on the Attacking Pokemon, then it travels over to the Defending Pokemon, where Weakness/Resistance gets applied, and then any other effects on the Defending Pokemon. Whether a damage modification effect is applied before or after Weakness and Resistance is the key to telling which Pokemon the effect lies on.
Extra Smoke
Any damage done to your Stage 2 Pokemon-ex by your opponent's attacks is reduced by 10 (before applying Weakness and Resistance).
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Extra Smoke is applied before Weakness and Resistance. That indicates the effect lies on the Attacking Pokemon -- which is your opponent in this case, since Extra Smoke reduces his attacks. Swift only ignores effects on the Defending Pokemon. This is why Swift still gets reduced.

Here's another example from Lucario:
Close Combat (80)
During your opponent's next turn, any damage done to Lucario by attacks is increased by 30 (after applying Weakness and Resistance).
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During your opponent's next turn, he'll be attacking Lucario. Since this effect is applied after Weakness and Resistance, and Lucario is the one taking the extra damage, the effect lies on Lucario. Which means Swift ignores Close Combat as well :)

Let's look at Deoxys (Normal) HP:
Crystal Laser (20)
During your next turn, Deoxys's attacks do 40 more damage to the Defending Pokemon (before applying Weakness and Resistance).
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You can probably guess that the effect is on Deoxys, but this helps to reinforce the overall concept. Deoxys is creating the damage in this case, and the modification is before Weakness/Resistance.

Here's an interesting one from Deoxys (Defense) HP. This was the errata Delta Reduction. This was the original wording on the card:
Delta Reduction (30)
During your opponent's next turn, any damage done to Deoxys by attacks is reduced by 30 (before applying Weakness and Resistance).
Click to expand...
The errata was to make it more clear that the effect lied on the Attacking Pokemon:
During your opponent's next turn, any damage done by attacks from the Defending Pokémon is reduced by 30 (before applying Weakness and Resistance).
Click to expand...
But you can see, the rule applies even with the "bad" wording. Before Weakness/Resistance always means the effect is on the Attacking Pokemon, which is your opponent's Pokemon in this case.

Effects on attack damage are among the more complex effect interactions in Pokemon, and even a lot of judges don't quite get it. But it's deceptively simple:
  • Before Weakness/Resistance => Effect on Attacking Pokemon
  • After Weakness/Resistance => Effect on Defending Pokemon
Remembering those two things goes a long way to properly interpreting an attack.
 
I had no idea that one world meant a world of difference. I understand it much better now.
 
I thank Chairman Kaga for that LONG explanation. So let me get this straight. Swift cancels everything whatsoever on the defending pokemon but since kingdra's extra smoke says all damage i do to it is reduced by 10 means swift's damage is reduce because swift goes through anything that has to do with my OPPONENT but extra smoke effects ME. Am i right?

I never thought the rules were so complex. Wow....
 
Thou Shall Sleep said:
I thank Chairman Kaga for that LONG explanation. So let me get this straight. Swift cancels everything whatsoever on the defending pokemon but since kingdra's extra smoke says all damage i do to it is reduced by 10 means swift's damage is reduce because swift goes through anything that has to do with my OPPONENT but extra smoke effects ME. Am i right?
Click to expand...
Yep. As for how to know it's an effect on you (and not your opponent), that was explained above.

I think one reason Extra Smoke is so confusing is because the Poke-Body is on your opponent's Kingdra, but the effect it creates is on your Pokemon. But it doesn't matter where the effect comes from, just where it ends up.

If you think this is hard, try playing World of Warcraft TCG sometime :) Virtually every card in that game has some sort of effect flying around in play.
Thou Shall Sleep said:
I never thought the rules were so complex. Wow....
Click to expand...
This is probably the most complex rule, by a long shot. Most effects are pretty clear as to which Pokemon they reside on. When there is doubt, this rule provides a definitive answer.

But generally, Pokemon isn't that hard :) Especially not when compared to other TCGs.
 
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