Discussion Sylveon GX in Gardevoir GX?

S

Seastrome

Aspiring Trainer
Member
I've heard people mention Sylveon as being underrated, especially in Gardevoir. I'm just curious how well it works in Gardevoir and does it's GX attack help against Metagross? I have some tournaments coming up and just trying to come up with the optimal build that can give me a fighting chance against decks like Metagross and maybe Greninja too.

Is Octillery line really necessary? I was thinking of just playing 3 Diancie in hopes of starting it and going straight into multiple Gardevoirs turn 2/3. Also, Oranguru and 4 Gardevoir/1 Gallade. Gallade as only an option if necessary. (Alolan Ninetales BUS)

I plan on doing some testing and seeing what is quicker but a straight Gardevoir/Sylveon build sounds good in theory, despite the lack of Octillery.
 
Oranguru doesn't sound bad, if only because you can Secret Spring + DCE to swing on something as a single-prize attacker.

Octillery gets you more cards, though, and those extra two cards could be all the difference.

I have seen few Gardevoir decks online, and none of them used Sylveon, but I've heard of people using it. Not how useful it'll be since you have to avoid the N. At least Diancie can get you set up for the t2 Gardevoir without worrying about N.

Plea GX doesn't help against Metagross, as it really only sets them back one turn and does nothing about the Metagross sitting up front. If you plea on their recharge turn then you're not really getting anything out of it except giving them a reason to Guzma your Gardevoir and OHKO it. It may have a little more use late game if you plea and then N, but I think I'd rather just use Twilight GX for its overall general utility.
 
PMJ said:
Oranguru doesn't sound bad, if only because you can Secret Spring + DCE to swing on something as a single-prize attacker.

Octillery gets you more cards, though, and those extra two cards could be all the difference.

I have seen few Gardevoir decks online, and none of them used Sylveon, but I've heard of people using it. Not how useful it'll be since you have to avoid the N. At least Diancie can get you set up for the t2 Gardevoir without worrying about N.

Plea GX doesn't help against Metagross, as it really only sets them back one turn and does nothing about the Metagross sitting up front. If you plea on their recharge turn then you're not really getting anything out of it except giving them a reason to Guzma your Gardevoir and OHKO it. It may have a little more use late game if you plea and then N, but I think I'd rather just use Twilight GX for its overall general utility.
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I suppose so. Idk, i'm really searching for some kind of answer for Metagross. Not having an answer just isn't going to cut it if I run into it when i'm trying to win a tournament. Must be something I can tech.
 
How about Espeon EX? I never played either of those decks but devolving Metagross into Beldum could be a good way to go.
 
Devolving doesn't do anything because they can just evolve straight away next turn. In order for devolving to be effective, they have to die when you do it. That means they need damage on them, and once they start spamming Max Potion it can be hard to get damage to stick. It can also be hard to put damage on them anyway since they are one-shotting you every turn.

If you have your heart set on at least not folding completely to Metagross, your best bet is to spam Turtonator-GX's Shell Trap. Banded, it does 100 damage, which is enough to 2HKO them if they swing into you. This plan won't work if they Guzma around you or retreat and Geotech onto an undamaged Metagross, but the way I see it you were gonna lose this matchup anyway.

A far less consistent option is to tech in something that can OHKO Metagross straight out. No one is gonna do that outside of Weakness so here's a list of Fire-types who don't have Fire-heavy attacks that can do the job (Choice Band required for some):

Blaziken PRC (Attack cost RC, 100 damage and discard 1)
Blaziken-EX (RCCC, flip for every R attached, 100 + 20/heads)
Charizard EVO (Energy Burn lets you pay with any Energy, 200 and discard 3)
Delphox FAC (CCC, 20x all energy in play)
Ninetales-EX (RCCC, 130, flip, if tails discard R)
Typhlosion BKT (R, discard top 5 of your deck, 80x Energy discarded)
Volcanion XY164/XY185 (RCCC, 100, opponent switches Pokemon)
Volcarona STS (CCC, 120, discard all)

All of these go down to a banded Giga Hammer, but some of them are only one prize so maybe you can make something happen.

I dunno. Just take the loss lol
 
PMJ said:
Devolving doesn't do anything because they can just evolve straight away next turn. In order for devolving to be effective, they have to die when you do it. That means they need damage on them, and once they start spamming Max Potion it can be hard to get damage to stick. It can also be hard to put damage on them anyway since they are one-shotting you every turn.

If you have your heart set on at least not folding completely to Metagross, your best bet is to spam Turtonator-GX's Shell Trap. Banded, it does 100 damage, which is enough to 2HKO them if they swing into you. This plan won't work if they Guzma around you or retreat and Geotech onto an undamaged Metagross, but the way I see it you were gonna lose this matchup anyway.

A far less consistent option is to tech in something that can OHKO Metagross straight out. No one is gonna do that outside of Weakness so here's a list of Fire-types who don't have Fire-heavy attacks that can do the job (Choice Band required for some):

Blaziken PRC (Attack cost RC, 100 damage and discard 1)
Blaziken-EX (RCCC, flip for every R attached, 100 + 20/heads)
Charizard EVO (Energy Burn lets you pay with any Energy, 200 and discard 3)
Delphox FAC (CCC, 20x all energy in play)
Ninetales-EX (RCCC, 130, flip, if tails discard R)
Typhlosion BKT (R, discard top 5 of your deck, 80x Energy discarded)
Volcanion XY164/XY185 (RCCC, 100, opponent switches Pokemon)
Volcarona STS (CCC, 120, discard all)

All of these go down to a banded Giga Hammer, but some of them are only one prize so maybe you can make something happen.

I dunno. Just take the loss lol
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Actually I believe Espeon-EX is a highly underated card, because your forgetting about Rare Candy. There are quite a couple competitive decks that rely on Rare Candy to evolve in their Stage 2 Pokémon like Gardevoir, Metagross, and even Tapu Bulu (Vikavolt). So if you devolve the Highest stage evolution and put it into their hand that is now a dead card. Also it's very easy to setup, as it only needs one colorless energy.
 
Trainer Josh said:
Actually I believe Espeon-EX is a highly underated card, because your forgetting about Rare Candy. There are quite a couple competitive decks that rely on Rare Candy to evolve in their Stage 2 Pokémon like Gardevoir, Metagross, and even Tapu Bulu (Vikavolt). So if you devolve the Highest stage evolution and put it into their hand that is now a dead card. Also it's very easy to setup, as it only needs one colorless energy.
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I agree, Espeon-EX is underrated in the current Standard format... in my opinion it's because Pokémon-EX aren't trendy anymore and Pokémon-GX are the new cards to beat. Since this relatively new SM era has reverted us to a (mostly) evolution-oriented format, a lot more players are using Rare Candy for evolution acceleration. What makes Espeon-EX underrated? Spread/ability/Special Condition-induced damage is also underrated. I've won a few rounds because of Espeon's devolution-inducing attack. It's best played last minute, when the opponent's Pokémon are already injured. :p
 
I didn't forget about Beldum. I never specifically mentioned devolving Metang, just devolving in general. This deck is already hard up on bench space with Octillery, Gallade, and backup Gardevoir, so springing the devolution surprise is going to be really hard to do. If you put it into play too early, you risk getting it KOed. Against Metagross, killing Espeon instead of Gardevoir is no matter; two prizes is two prizes and you probably aren't going to OHKO them back. If you do, they can still Geotech with the remaining two and attach for turn, letting them get two more prizes and depleting a ton of Energy from your board.

Gardevoir is gonna die in even the best case scenario because, as I said, in order to devolve and kill, you have you actually hit them first. Even if you Guzma out a clean one and only smack it for 60-90, they can just Max Potion first and then Geotech three Energy to it. If there's a Metagross with 3 Energy attached already on the board, it probably killed a Gardevoir last turn.

And finally, devolving will only get you one prize. It won't help keep the prize trade even and it won't help keep your Gardevoir alive.

Espeon-EX is good. Just not in this deck.

edit I see what you mean by me forgetting about Beldum because I mentioned evolving straight away. There is a very low chance that Metagross is going to evolve all of its Beldum with Rare Candy. If they evolve even one of them into Metang, your devolution plan becomes a lot less useful. Remember that devolving removes all effects, so they could swing with Giga Hammer if they had the energy to do so.
 
PMJ said:
I didn't forget about Beldum. I never specifically mentioned devolving Metang, just devolving in general. This deck is already hard up on bench space with Octillery, Gallade, and backup Gardevoir, so springing the devolution surprise is going to be really hard to do. If you put it into play too early, you risk getting it KOed. Against Metagross, killing Espeon instead of Gardevoir is no matter; two prizes is two prizes and you probably aren't going to OHKO them back. If you do, they can still Geotech with the remaining two and attach for turn, letting them get two more prizes and depleting a ton of Energy from your board.

Gardevoir is gonna die in even the best case scenario because, as I said, in order to delvolve and kill, you have you actually hit them first. Even if you Guzma out a clean one and only smack it for 60-90, they can just Max Potion first and then Geotech three Energy to it. If there's a Metagross with 3 Energy attached already on the board, it probably killed a Gardevoir last turn.

And finally, devolving will only get you one prize. It won't help keep the prize trade even and it won't help keep your Gardevoir alive.

Espeon-EX is good. Just not in this deck.

edit I see what you mean by me forgetting about Beldum because I mentioned evolving straight away. There is a very low chance that Metagross is going to evolve all of its Beldum with Rare Candy. If they evolve even one of them into Metang, your devolution plan becomes a lot less useful. Remember that devolving removes all effects, so they could swing with Giga Hammer if they had the energy to do so.
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When Espeon uses it attack to devolve your opponent's Metagross, it isn't about taking prize cards, it's about disruption. Metagross is a deck that needs 3 Metagross out in order to use Geotech System and bring up the necessary energies from the discard pile to Giga Hammer. Given you disrupt that cycle, now they are in a position where they either have to start manually attaching energies or risk only attacking once every two turns.

The way I see it, unfortunately Gardevoir simply has a bad matchup to Metagross due to weakness. So running Espeon could not only give you a better shot at winning the Metagross matchup, but also help verse a ton of other matchups. Thankfully a player doesn't need to commit to Espeon to make it work, so if it's useless feel free to discard it or just shuffle it back into your deck for a nice late-game surprise, by which time your bench should also be cleared up.
 
Not sure how sylveon would play with Gard due to bench space and all but quad sylveon playes well against Metagross, espe using plea gx attack bc the deck is all about disruption with hand and energy denial so a timely plea gx can finish them off.
 
Auto losing to Greninja and Metagross isn't a good thing. I'm not sure if i should play this for tournament next week. I can't beat Greninja or Metagross at all.
 
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jix99 said:
Aaron Tarbell did it so it has to be at least ok.
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Well, true but idk if he encountered any Metagross or not. Gardy struggles mightily against it. I wish I had the answers to deal with it. But from what I've heard, there weren't too many Metagross played.
 
I personally prefer Diancie far more than Sylveon GX. Your set up will never get disrupted, and it's more efficient on deck space. You can run 3 Diancie to open more often than 2, and even then you're still saving deck space compared to a 2/2 Sylveon GX line.

Twilight GX is also far better than Plea GX, in my opinion. You get to rebuild your deck with 10 cards of your choice. Full command over your resources is an unbelievable advantage Gardevoir GX has over other decks, especially with VS Seeker going out. You don't need to to run any Rescue Stretcher/Super Rod/Energy Retrieval. Using Twilight GX when I have Sycamore in hand has won me games with the ability to have immediate turn arounds or immediate game closure on the next turn.

As much as I would like to run 2/2 Octillery in Gardevoir GX, it's a matter of deck space and consistency, in my opinion.

Oranguru is run because it can OHKO Alolan Ninetales BUS without going up to Gallade, which allows you to go into an extra Gardevoir GX instead and can be set up with Brigette if you know you're facing Ninetales, and it provides a small amount of draw support in a pinch as well. Running a 2/2 Octillery line means you're teching in a Gallade for BUS as well since Octillery isn't really an attacker. That's 5 cards for draw support and Alolan Ninetales BUS coverage versus 1 card that can achieve both. Secret Spring can charge up Oranguru in one turn for quick OHKOs on Alolan Ninetales BUS since BUS needs 3 energy to even be a threat to you.

I've also run into plenty of situations where I'm not certain if I should Octillery or Sycamore for 7. Sometimes I'll Abyssal Hand to try and preserve resources, but end up losing more because I need to Sycamore afterward anyway. All of this depends on your remaining deck and the amount of resources you need to close out, but for the most part, Gardevoir GX is a deck that relies on N and Sycamore to draw. Oranguru saves you from late game N's and still draws when you can play out your hand.

As for consistency, over drawing into Remoraid and Octillery at bad times when you instead needed energy or supporters can end up disrupting your momentum. This depends on what you're trading in order to fit Octillery in. Also, the critical issue with this situation is if you are unable to play out your hand because of bad draws, then you can't Abyssal Hand anyway. Since switching to Oranguru, I've had more situations where I can play out my hand than Octillery in this deck specifically. Maybe it was just dumb luck, though.

Espeon EX is considerable as a counter to both Metagross GX and Greninja BREAK, but it's not very fluid in Gardevoir GX. The only thing I can really recommend is to accelerate first and don't be afraid to knock out Beldums & Metangs to cut off Metagross GX. You only need 2-3 energy on Gardy GX to OHKO Metang and Beldum, which relies a bit on early Guzmas but may be worth it depending on the game. Gardy GX needs to pick the right timing for OHKO trades, and you need to play your energy more carefully as well so you don't burn out. Sometimes you need to change your strategy to win, not your deck.
 
Seastrome said:
Well, true but idk if he encountered any Metagross or not. Gardy struggles mightily against it. I wish I had the answers to deal with it. But from what I've heard, there weren't too many Metagross played.
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I have an idea either it's absolutely terrible or it's ok, here it is tech a Flareon one of and run 2 or 3 Eevee and maybe a second Syleveon. You might wan't to test this or you might just think im crazy. Either works.
 
jix99 said:
I have an idea either it's absolutely terrible or it's ok, here it is tech a Flareon one of and run 2 or 3 Eevee and maybe a second Syleveon. You might wan't to test this or you might just think im crazy. Either works.
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I'll try it.
 
The nice thing about Flareon in this deck is that with a Choice Band, Sylveon's Fairy Wind OHKOs a fully healthy Metagross GX. If they have multiple, you're primed for a revenge KO, but in combination with Plea, you should hopefully be alright.

Magic Ribbon would allow you to set up all your Gardevoirs too, so it's a nice addition to the deck I think. When Flareon rotates out, you can rethink it, but I like this setup.
 
Sylveon is the best choice don't listen to what anyone else says. U can easily search for 3 of any card in your deck setting you up for anything. And as far as plea gx goes it's the best attack in the game bar none. You can easily guzma someone useless to the active and send 2 of there most powerful pokemon up to their hand. And if the only have 2 metegross that means game over. It's simple, play sylveon if u want to win
 
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