TCG Bi-Weekly Survey #4: Scooping

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Celebi23

Aspiring Trainer
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TCG Survey​
Topic 4: Scooping​


Welcome to this week's Bi-Weekly Survey!

The Bi-Weekly Surveys are meant to generate discussion about the topic stated, while gathering information on how PB TCG Players feel about certain topics. I plan on gathering all of the information we've received in the threads after a period of time and making a post analyzing that data to better understand what PB TCG Players have to say about specific discussions. Therefore, it's important that as many players as possible participate. For the time being, I am only planning on conducting this for the TCG, but may poll the VG Players of PB at a later time.

In each Bi-Weekly Survey, there will be a discussion prompt for everyone to start off with. They'll all be questions; providing an answer to that question with your opinion and then expressing why you think that way is the goal of this series.

This survey's question is as follows:

Many players will scoop to their friends in a swiss round if it gives them both a chance to make top cut, or they'll intentionally throw the game by making stupid mistakes. Do you think this is ethical? Should players be able to do it? What are the good and bad effects of doing so?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this was against PTCG rules? Under "spirit of the game" or something like that

I personally don't think this is right. If they want the championship points, they should be able to win against their friends. Not being able to do so just gives a weaker player a chance to win. The good effects are obviously that the player would get more championship points, and thus have a better chance of qualifying for Worlds. This can be important late in the season. Bad effects are that it gives points to a player who was too weak to deserve them. or was too lazy to play them out. I don't think this is allowed, but both players could come up with a "oh I got donked >:[" story, so it's not like we can really stop it, unfortunately.
 
It's technically not because there's no way to know if you're legit. If you're up five prizes and have a Darkrai-EX fully charged against their lone Smeargle, it's entirely possible you actually don't see a way to win. So you scoop up your cards. Unlikely of a situation as that is, it's not possible for anybody to know your thoughts.

It is against the rules if there are bribes/prizes involved though.
 
The only time I would scoop is if the game is hopeless. Like, I have a lone Caterpie and my opponent has a Zekrom and three Eels on the Bench. (SAVE THE CATERPIE!) Scooping just seems like another word for "giving up," but I think there is only one other time you should scoop. That is probably to save time. Because we play during these new restrictions, scooping can save valuable time. You could spend more time trying to win the second game than being miserable in an extremely rough first game.
 
Teapot said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this was against PTCG rules? Under "spirit of the game" or something like that

I personally don't think this is right. If they want the championship points, they should be able to win against their friends. Not being able to do so just gives a weaker player a chance to win. The good effects are obviously that the player would get more championship points, and thus have a better chance of qualifying for Worlds. This can be important late in the season. Bad effects are that it gives points to a player who was too weak to deserve them. or was too lazy to play them out. I don't think this is allowed, but both players could come up with a "oh I got donked >:[" story, so it's not like we can really stop it, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Didn't Chad drop so you could get in Top Cut?

On topic: I don't see anything wrong with it. You are helping a friend out. I scoop sometimes if I don't see any way to win, that way I can do something I want to do like trade or get food instead of being misreable and getting wrecked by a Darkrai EX. If you are X-0 and are playing against a friend, if you are going to make Top no matter what and your friend won't if you win, then yea toss the game so you both make cut. You are helping out a friend, and if the guy that doesn't make it because of that gets angry, then he should have been friends with you so you could help him out too.
 
I do not think this is right, but I do think that it shouild be allowed to be done. I know people that have missed cut because someone did this, but I also know people that significantly benefitted from this. It very rarely causes problems, and unless someone is being forced to scoop, it's fine. It is also one of the only ways people in super competitive areas can get their invites.
 
Not necessarily ethical, but it should certainly be allowed.

I believe the same regarding dropping before a final or T-whatever match. It's not ethical, but it's part of the rules and a right you have to exploit if you wish. I certainly don't look down to people who scoop or drop to gain an advantage or give someone else an advantage as they choose, (Without bribery or money of course) but it's something I personally would not consider doing.
 
I don't scoop to people. I play out the game. If you need to scoop to them, they don't deserve it. For example, Someone Who Shall Not Be Named (No not Voldemort) wanted me to scoop to them at the last round at a Battle Roads. I didn't but lost when we played the game out.
However, scooping should be allowed because its the players choice. If friends have to battle each other they have a choice to scoop in friendship or to help them out.
Bribes however should not and aren't allowed.
 
venasour x said:
Didn't Chad drop so you could get in Top Cut?

On topic: I don't see anything wrong with it. You are helping a friend out. I scoop sometimes if I don't see any way to win, that way I can do something I want to do like trade or get food instead of being misreable and getting wrecked by a Darkrai EX. If you are X-0 and are playing against a friend, if you are going to make Top no matter what and your friend won't if you win, then yea toss the game so you both make cut. You are helping out a friend, and if the guy that doesn't make it because of that gets angry, then he should have been friends with you so you could help him out too.
Click to expand...

This was different. Chad played out all 5 rounds (going 4-1), and gave his spot in top cut to me. He had to leave the whole tournament because of a family obligation. He did not forfeit a game against me to put me into top cut.
 
I think you should be able to scoop to people but you have to play it out. The good thing is that your being nice and giving your friend the win but the bad thing is the judges know that you technically won and they might have a talk with that player that got the win and would ask him if he forced his opponet to scoop to him.
 
I do not believe it is ethical to purposely play bad or scoop to a player just to give them a better record. It violates the Spirit Of The Game value. It is letting someone possibly get in that doesn't deserve it. This is a flaw with the Championship Points system. With the Elo system you would still lose points which should make it less of an occurence anyway even though it shouldn't be allowed. Bribery is absolutely wrong and could possible lead to a suspension from Organized Play.
 
I've never been put in a situation where I have no chance of making cut and all my opponent needs is this one win to get there. However, if I were, I feel that if that person doesn't win often and they're a pretty good person, I would scoop. Now, if my opponent was a complete jackwagon I would beat him just to grind him out of top cut. This is (to me) like a debate over guns. It all depends on how it's used. If you're being bribed or there are prizes involved, that's when things get sketchy. Just scooping to somebody out of good will, though, I see absolutely no problem with.

RogueChomp said:
I don't scoop to people. I play out the game. If you need to scoop to them, they don't deserve it. For example, Someone Who Shall Not Be Named (No not Voldemort) wanted me to scoop to them at the last round at a Battle Roads. I didn't but lost when we played the game out.
However, scooping should be allowed because its the players choice. If friends have to battle each other they have a choice to scoop in friendship or to help them out.
Bribes however should not and aren't allowed.
Click to expand...

You have two options and two options only. Scoop or die.

*EVADA KEDAVRA!!!!!*
{DRG} <--- Negini
 
I don't scoop to friends. It depends on the situation, but I wouldn't most of the time. I try and be nice when I play friends, however. Sometimes I don't let people take back mistakes, but against a friend I always will. Keeping a friendship is more important than children's card games. And I actually saw that a similar situation to the one I described did actually wreck a friendship, for those of you wondering...not saying any names here, though. CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION FOR A CARD GAME :O
 
I belive playing the game out is the right thing to do, if my opponent wants to scoop, I will not stop them, but if there is no clear reason for scooping available, I will ask them why they are scooping when they don't know what their next turn holds. As for me, I only scoop if I need to do something else like trade with someone (though that rarely ever happens) or if I need to leave. (though I've only scooped in one tournament (a PR) because I was too sick to play)

As for scooping to a friend, I can see right and wrong in it. The upside: it's a really nice gesture because you are helping a friend get into top cut. The downsides: speculation of bribery and violating SoTG.
 
Alright, so it seems like most people agree that scooping is okay, whether they would do it or not. However, here are a couple somewhat more difficult situations for you guys, which I've also encountered before.

First, suppose you're borrowing two of your friend's Mewtwo-EX's because your deck needs them but you don't have any of your own. You get paired up with him and beat him fair and square. Do you scoop to him because you're using his cards?

And second, suppose you make a terrible mistake that will result in a game loss (like playing two shuffle supporters on the same turn). Your opponent lets you take it back and fix it without calling a judge, so you can continue playing the match. After the match ends, you win. Should you give them the win because you should have lost? What if it was a different kind of misplay that doesn't break game state but would still lead to a loss, like announcing Outrage instead of Bolt Strike?
 
1. Probably not because it's not like he won because he was using YOUR mewtwos. It could have been any mewtwo.

2. It would be the right thing to do, but you don't have to.
 
1. No. He let you borrow his cards, and it was fair and square. I personally wouldn't have hard feelings.

2. That one is tougher. It depends on the game. If it is like 1-6 my favour then yes I would let him take it back/let it slide because I'm obviously going to win. If it is neck and neck then no, I would not because that might decide the game and I don't like losing, especially when I have a say in it.
 
@ Celebi's scenarios

1. Definitely not. You beat him fair and square and it was their choice to lend you their cards.

2. Call me heartless, but I would say definitely not. It was completely up to the opponent to let you take it back and continue playing. One of the consequences of that decision is the possibility of losing. They had every right to give you a game loss, and since they didn't, the game should continue normally, no matter who wins.
 
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