Ruling Tech vs Latios ex d

V

vanderbilt_grad

Aspiring Trainer
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I'm thinking about building a deck featuring Arcanine ex. However I'm having trouble deciding how to handle Latios ex d.

Crystal Beach seems to be one way, since most decks that tech in Lati-Lock use Castaform to power Latios' attack. I'm planning on using at least 3 in the deck.

I've thought of techs like Warp Point, Pokemon Reversal, and Cyclone Energy ... and while those things would seem to allow Arcanine to keep going and knock out one more thing they don't really take Latios out of the picture and he will still be right there for the OHKO or THKO the next turn. Still these will be useful against plenty of other safeguard pokemon so one or more these will go in the deck too.

I've considered having a tech Pokemon. I've seen Smeargle d suggested ... he will do 40 + asleep for 1 colorless energy to Latios ex d and isn't a terrible starter. Still he is vunlerable to the OHKO in return should Latios wake back up. Tangela seemed like an interesting option, 10 damage + no attack by Latios the following round ... and is resistant to Water to boot ... but I realized that with 0 retreat cost your opponent could just retreat and KO Tangela another way, you KO whatever they sent up, and Latios is right back in your face. So are there any other good tech's here? I'm a bit limited in that the deck currently has only Fire and React energy.

Are there any other ideas that I'm overlooking?
 
Well, the Ninetails in PK has the Safeguard ability, so there's an easy option. You won't one-shot it, but Latios ex d won't be able to touch you. Since you already use Fire energy and Ninetails is a Stage 1, she'd be pretty easy to stick in as a support/tech Pokemon. Since you use Reacts as well, you could stick a couple DF Ninetails in as well for healing purposes and grabbing your Reacts back.

Another option would be LM Roselia. While it's not exactly a counter against Latios ex d by its own, it DOES bench it and poison someone else. Plus, since you use Reacts you can heal every non-ex Pokemon that has Reacts attached. While this option isn't THAT great for Latios ex d, it still serves as a useful helper if you plan on running Ninetails.

I'd like to help you out more, but I'd need to see the decklist. If you haven't, you could post it in the Deck Garage.
 
Safeguard Ninetails is nice, and does fit in fire energy wise ... I just have the same concern with that that I do with Tangela.

It seems to me that decks like Metanite and MSN-BC are the most likely canidates to be running Lati-lock. So let's say that I have Ninetails Safeguard.

[round 3] My opponent plays Latios, uses energy acceleration to slap an energy or two and then attaches castaform. He retreats his active, sends up Latios, and Ice Barriers for 60 to my active Arcanine ex. I respond by sending Ninetails up and attack for 20, 40, or 60 dending on the time I've had to build it up ... and *that* assumes that I've had time and energy to have it ready in advance.

[round4]My opponent smiles, retreats Latios for free, and hits me with Metagross d for 70 (metanite) or Queen for 90 (msnbc) & the KO. I get to promote something ... let's say I put my damaged Arcanine active and KO whatever they sent up.

[round5]Latios ex d is promoted active again and KOs Arcanine with Ice Barrier.

Score: Opponent 3 prizes to my 1....

Essentially Ninetails takes me 2+ rounds to set up and ends up being a 1 round prize unless that single stall round lets me grab Crystal Beach.

Roselia is faster, but has the same issues. She just puts Latios back on the bench and doesn't really help end his threat.

Smeargal d has about a 50% of leading to a Latios KO in some way for 1 energy. I'm not sure that Ninetails or Roselia is quite that high.
 
Space Center doesn't work on Pokémon-ex. If it was that easy to handle, I doubt he'd be asking about this.

With 2 of anything, Claydol ex can hit Latios ex for 80 if he has two Energy attached. If he has three or you add a Strength Charm, you've got your OHKO. Nidoqueen is not only weak to Claydol ex, but she can't OHKO you back. Metanite needs to discard 5 (although I'm not entirely sure how hard that is for Metanite, I've never really seen it played).

The biggest problem though is Baltoy. The only one that needs no colored Energy is the one from Emerald, and he's pretty sucky. Also worth mentioning, however, is the one from Holon Phantoms, who needs 1 of anything for his first attack and is Psychic type.

Speed Deoxys ex kills Latios ex and Nidoqueen in one shot. Fastwave is all colorless and also ignores any Metals that may be on Nidoqueen too - a plus. It costs 3 though, so I suppose it might not be techworthy.

To be honest, I like Smeargle better. It's hard to pass up on 40 and sleep for a single Energy.
 
Heh ... a few weeks ago I got excited when I found out about Balltoy (em) ... until I remembered that you can't use Boost Energy on a basic.  I was picturing the OHKO on Holon's Castaform.

Anway Deoxys ex is a touch slow IMHO with 3 energy needed.  Too bad Boost doesn't work on him either!

But this did lead to another idea ... Wynaut (lm) + Wobbuffet (pk) + Scramble Energy.  If you use Wynaut then Wobb's is an Evolved Basic and thus eligible for Scramble ... and odds are if Latios took out an Arcanine then you have more prizes.  How's that for the one turn OHKO for Latios ex d?

I had dismissed the idea of using Scramble earlier but I might have to change my mind....
 
Smeargle DF is the best way to go. That's honestly the only thing he's really good for. All you need is to stop Ice Barrier for 1 turn, and doing 40 while you're at it for 1 energy is nice.
 
Just go Wobby. OHKO on Lati, Safeguard to stall against other Ex-Heavy decks, can hit for 50...I don't see why you wouldn't use him.
 
1. Wobbuffet takes Psychic. No matter how you provide it, it's still a third Energy. Only using React and Fire should prove useful.
2. Holon's Magtrode/Castform can't be used because he plans on using Crystal Beach to help stop Latios ex.
3. Flip Over takes 3 Energy, which means 3 turns of charging, which means Latios ex runs like a girl and promotes some other loser who can be spared.
 
Tried my deck in a local tournament this weekend without either Smeargal or Wobbs.  Pure RK9 + my other EX + ER2 + Crystal Beach.

Admittadly I got a bit lucky, but the one game where Latios ex d showed up was about how I would expect things.  Opponent goes first.  He sees Growlithe & on T2 he Mentors and grabbs Latios, a H. Magnimite, and a Castaform, benches the Lat & attaches the Magnimite (and candies a Blazaken pk).  On my turn I draw, evolve RK9, & use Adventurer.  I already had a Crystal Beach in hand from my opening but got an ER2 with the draw.  I considered ER2ing the Magnimite or using the Beach that turn but decided to hold both & see if he would KO or Ice Barrier ... my bet was that he would Ice but either way I was ready.  T3 He advances the Latios, attaches Castaform, does some other stuff, and then Ice Barriers.  I respond with ER & get the heads, the I drop Crystal Beach just to be certain, and Overrun just so I can cause some bench havoc.  The game goes for a few turns after that but CB + The ER flip pretty much sealed it.

I've decided against Wobbs & Scramble for now, but I am probably going to max out the ER2 & Crystal Beach.  Still thinking on the Smeargal, but he will probably go in.
 
Mew from LM one hit KO :O
or any pokemon that is not an ex, Flygon d is pretty good.
 
crystal beach and ER2 sound best, and BTW, wobuffet PK says no weakness or resistance with his attack... I tried it. I use Mewtwo*. He'll 1HKO latios and then damage if not knock out the next guy. He's also not an EX
 
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