Terrakion - Future BDIF?

Will Terrakion be the next BDIF?

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Serperior

Serperior

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Terrakion is mostly known for his irritating way of destroying ZekEels or any deck that has Eels in its name. With the release of the new EX, he just keeps getting better. The fact that Terrakion EX charges up more heavy-hitting Terrakion on the Bench with a single attack should frighten all Eels users. And, because Eels is the current BDIF, will Terrakion take it's throne?

Discuss.
 
It seems like it could. Most Eel decks almost have autolosses to it. And even Mewtwo doesn't help too much if Terrakion plays Mewtwo (most do), and they 2HKO Mewtwo anyway (without an Eviolite). I'm testing a few things, but I definetly think this deck will be able to succeed if played correctly. Shaymin does rip it up, though, so Eel players might have to tech him in with a prism. It is a desk to look out for, and while it may not be the BDIF, but if played in the right meta it will have a pretty easy time winning.
 
Eel decks don't autolose to it. They can just go aggro Mewtwo with Eviolite, and the Terrakion is only going to be 3HKOing that monster, unless they somehow manage to draw into 3 Black Belt (most lists play 1-2 I think).

So no, I don't think that it will ever be BDIF. It will be good of course, as long as ZekEels stays popular and people continue to not know how to play against it.
 
It will do well, but it won't be BDIF. It has a bad matchup against a variety of other decks, and it has surprisingly quite a few autolosses (though nobody plays them, they are decks like Gothitelle or Trainer Lock).

If somebody wanted to beat it, they easily could.
 
I also think it will rise in play and stay in the top tier for the rest of the season, simply because of its great matchUp to Eel decks and if Darkness will become as good as it seems to, terrakion would have another deck it can counter easily.
Great deck of course, but not the BDIF.
 
For now, it's nowhere near the top. It got really popular last weekend, so nobody played Eels. Then they all lost because they didn't get any good matchups. A deck with two Virizion basically destroys Terrakion, as does Shaymin-EX.
alexmf2 said:
Eel decks don't autolose to it. They can just go aggro Mewtwo with Eviolite, and the Terrakion is only going to be 3HKOing that monster, unless they somehow manage to draw into 3 Black Belt (most lists play 1-2 I think).

So no, I don't think that it will ever be BDIF. It will be good of course, as long as ZekEels stays popular and people continue to not know how to play against it.
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This logic doesn't make sense. Terrakion decks can use Mewtwo if opposing Mewtwo become a problem. Furthermore, Mewtwo doesn't OHKO Terrakion in most situations, so Terrakion is still winning a prize exchange against an Eviolited Mewtwo, or at least playing even against it. Plus they need one Black Belt to turn it into a 2HKO, not three. 70 + 70 + 40 = 180. The fact you thought otherwise makes me wonder whether you've actually tested the matchup or not. And one Eviolited Mewtwo won't swing the matchup enough for ZekEels to win. If one Mewtwo could take out the entire deck, it would be a terrible deck.
 
The way I see it, if Terra got anywhere near the top, CMT would see a lot more play (or Tornadus itself for that matter). I don't really believe its legitimacy against decks other than Eel variants, but that's just because I've never tested the deck.
 
Celebi23 said:
This logic doesn't make sense. Terrakion decks can use Mewtwo if opposing Mewtwo become a problem. Furthermore, Mewtwo doesn't OHKO Terrakion in most situations, so Terrakion is still winning a prize exchange against an Eviolited Mewtwo, or at least playing even against it. Plus they need one Black Belt to turn it into a 2HKO, not three. 70 + 70 + 40 = 180. The fact you thought otherwise makes me wonder whether you've actually tested the matchup or not. And one Eviolited Mewtwo won't swing the matchup enough for ZekEels to win. If one Mewtwo could take out the entire deck, it would be a terrible deck.
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But the fact is Terrakion decks don't use Mewtwo. So they can't revenge the ZekEels Mewtwo. And you charge up Mewtwo so that it can KO Terrakion, it would only take 3 energy and a Pluspower to KO a fully charged one.

I mean that the Quad Bull player would need 3 Black Belts over the course of the game to keep the prize trade even. Without one Black Belt for every Mewtwo, ZekEels wins the prize trade and therefore the game.
 
I don't think you're accurately representing the ZekEels side. For every Black Belt the Terrakion deck needs, the Mewtwo deck needs an Eviolite.

Plus you're simply not going to hit six PlusPowers over the course of the game, so you need four energy. But the Terrakion deck can use Eviolite, too, which makes it five energy. Plus, if you start OHKOing one every turn, they'll be doing 90 for 2, not for 3. So then it becomes six energy, occasionally five. Not an easy number to get on three different cards over the course of a game. A smart player will place their Eviolites and energy in a way that forces you to put six energy on each Mewtwo. Most Terrakion decks are also running Lost Remover now, which means you kinda have to set Eels up. But they're just easy prizes for Terrakion, and once they're gone, you're in trouble again since you probably don't have 15-18 energy in your deck, even counting DCE. Also, last time I checked, most Eel decks don't even run three Mewtwo although I can understand wanting three in some builds.

I find it kind of ridiculous people actually think a deck designed to hard counter ZekEels can lose consistently to the deck it's designed to beat yet still do well in various tournaments despite being incredibly under-played.

You still have to answer the burning question: why doesn't Terrakion run Mewtwo when it can fit it in so easily? Are the Terrakion players just stupid and want to auto-lose to any deck with Mewtwo, or can they handle the card without their own Mewtwos? Take your pick.
 
Celebi23 said:
I don't think you're accurately representing the ZekEels side. For every Black Belt the Terrakion deck needs, the Mewtwo deck needs an Eviolite.

Plus you're simply not going to hit six PlusPowers over the course of the game, so you need four energy. But the Terrakion deck can use Eviolite, too, which makes it five energy. Plus, if you start OHKOing one every turn, they'll be doing 90 for 2, not for 3. So then it becomes six energy, occasionally five. Not an easy number to get on three different cards over the course of a game. A smart player will place their Eviolites and energy in a way that forces you to put six energy on each Mewtwo. Most Terrakion decks are also running Lost Remover now, which means you kinda have to set Eels up. But they're just easy prizes for Terrakion, and once they're gone, you're in trouble again since you probably don't have 15-18 energy in your deck, even counting DCE. Also, last time I checked, most Eel decks don't even run three Mewtwo although I can understand wanting three in some builds.

I find it kind of ridiculous people actually think a deck designed to hard counter ZekEels can lose consistently to the deck it's designed to beat yet still do well in various tournaments despite being incredibly under-played.

You still have to answer the burning question: why doesn't Terrakion run Mewtwo when it can fit it in so easily? Are the Terrakion players just stupid and want to auto-lose to any deck with Mewtwo, or can they handle the card without their own Mewtwos? Take your pick.
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Eviolite can be Junk Armed for, unlike Black Belt. Also, you can't use a draw supporter to search out Black Belt if you need it that turn, but you can with Eviolite.
Also, Terrakion cannot play Eviolite because it needs the EXP Share so badly, and it would just decrease consistency to use both.

I will agree that it's a terrible matchup, but Mewtwo+Eviolite is a good answer, and so is using Zekrom BW with a Plus Power, especially if they missed an energy/EXP Share drop or they had to attach to the active rather than the benched one.

Terrakion decks do and always will be good against Zekrom Eels, but it's not an unwinnable matchup. Terrakion can never be the BDIF because it autoloses to so many decks.
 
I've seen both used effectively. It's all about the manual attachments. Obviously it would only run 1-2 Eviolite, but that's all you need to force the extra energy from Mewtwo. There's always Pokegear to search out Black Belt.

And again, nobody has answered the burning question.
why doesn't Terrakion run Mewtwo when it can fit it in so easily? Are the Terrakion players just stupid and want to auto-lose to any deck with Mewtwo, or can they handle the card without their own Mewtwos?
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Celebi23 said:
You still have to answer the burning question: why doesn't Terrakion run Mewtwo when it can fit it in so easily?
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this is only half true. while it is easy, it is also very dangerous.

In order for mewtwo to work in this format, it requires a DCE 90%of the time, which terrakion does not like as it cannot use DCE.

They've tried to minimize the amount of useless cards, and energy in terrakion is very tight and valuable. you don't have the utility of eelektrik or typhlosion, meaning you have to play tightly. I think most of the time, a terrakion player's mewtwo would either have an underpowered EX ball or get catchered and killed before they can use it. This prize exchange isn't healthy in a deck with so few pokemon.

I also think it's very early to judge an entire deck-archtype based on a single weekend of events.

come back in 48 hours once this weekend has been finished and we have some more results posted. for all we know, mewtwo has been written into the 'new' terrakion decks.
 
Well it looks like most of the ones that are winning do have Mewtwo. The DCE doesn't hurt consistency all that much really. The Fighting Energy never really leave the field with Terrakion, so the only time I've found DCE to get in the way is if you have two in the same hand, but no Fighting Energy. This almost never happens in my testing.

I totally agree that it's too early to judge it, though. I'd wait until after Regionals to decide, honestly.
 
I think Terrakion will get better but it definitely won't be BDIF. I mean, it's awesome against anything with Eels and alright against Mewtwo, but there are other EXs out there. Reshiram (think TyRam; I know it's not as popular anymore, but still) and Shaymin work pretty well against Terrakion. Then there's also Tornadus with Eviolite. He can wall out Terra. And a Zekrom EX with an Eviolite will outlast a Terrakion. Terrakion maybe be able to counter the BDIF but that doesn't necessarily mean he is the BDIF.

I do agree though that it is a little early to truly decide; just my take on it.
 
Terrakion is really good with all the eels decks around but not BDIF and has performed pretty well but decks like MTC and others will be able to defeat it, but I don't know about what the next popular decks will be in the future.
 
I think it will eventually become BDIF, especially after the rotation. It only loses Lost Remover and Junk Arm which most other decks lose too.
 
iisnumber12 said:
I think it will eventually become BDIF, especially after the rotation. It only loses Lost Remover and Junk Arm which most other decks lose too.
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Don't forget Collector :p.
On topic it will be probably a Tier 1-1.5 deck because of it hits for weakness on Eels and eventual {D} decks (with their massive support from our next set) but it is questionable against Mewtwo because of the Energy necessary Mewtwo can put Terrakion at OHKO-2HKO range.
 
ProudPokePlayer said:
Don't forget Collector :p.
On topic it will be probably a Tier 1-1.5 deck because of it hits for weakness on Eels and eventual {D} decks (with their massive support from our next set) but it is questionable against Mewtwo because of the Energy necessary Mewtwo can put Terrakion at OHKO-2HKO range.
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Terrakion Decks don't run collector. They use a ton of Shuffle supporters and Heavy Ball.
 
PONT and PokeGear go, and the only shuffle supporter we will have left is N...
 
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