Discussion The Blazing Hellhound - (M) Houndoom EX Discussion

Asmer

Asmer

Keep the High Tide on the Flipside
Member
I would like to talk to everyone about Houndoom EX and M Houndoom EX. I did not see a thread about this (yet) and I personally believe both are fairly viable, considering they have low Energy requirements for their attacks, TONS of synergy with Blacksmith, Scorched Earth, and the new Blazing Energy, and many other things. I have a LOT to say about these two, but that is not the point of this thread. If I wanted to talk about them all day, I would write an article (Ha ha ha... ha.)!

If you have no idea what either do, here is your daily tidbit of information:

Houndoom EX
Basic Fire - 170 HP
[R] Melting Horn
Discard the top 2 cards of your opponent's deck.

[R] [R]
Grand Flame - 50 Damage
Attach a [R] Energy card from your discard pile to 1 of your Benched Pokémon.

and

M Houndoom EX
Mega Fire - 210 HP
[R] [R] Inferno Fang - 80+ Damage
You may discard all [R] Energy attached to this Pokémon. If you do, this attack does 80 more damage.

Let us talk Strategy!~

Results:
A BIG Congrats to Socery for his Top Placing with Houndoom Mill! If you would like to see his Tournament Report, you may view it by clicking this link!

ANOTHER BIG Congrats to Phoenix15 for his impressive 2nd Place Finish in NJ with Houndoom Mill! If you would like to see his Tournament Report, you may view it by clicking this link!
 
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I was wondering when a thread like this would appear, and I have some differing ideas with both the basic and mega in the Houndoom line. First, the basic: Bunnelby. Just, Bunnelby. Having 4 bunnies to burrow continuously is already frustrating, but adding in more mill attackers with almost 3x the HP? Tough to win against, especially if the mill player is playing revive. The Mega: Bats. I've heard people say Mega Houndoom can apply lots of pressure hitting 160 a turn. Yes, it's a big number, but it's not OHKOing EX's and Megas anytime soon. Combined with a Golbat or Crobat snipe, Mega Houndoom is able to hit those higher numbers for only two energy, and consistently when you factor in Burning Energy, Blacksmith, and Mega Turbi. You can start swinging for 180 with a bat potentially on T2 with good draw. Overall, I think Houndoom will definitely see play in multiple ways, whether burrowing away or hitting for 180.
 
Ghazernado said:
I was wondering when a thread like this would appear, and I have some differing ideas with both the basic and mega in the Houndoom line. First, the basic: Bunnelby. Just, Bunnelby. Having 4 bunnies to burrow continuously is already frustrating, but adding in more mill attackers with almost 3x the HP? Tough to win against, especially if the mill player is playing revive. The Mega: Bats. I've heard people say Mega Houndoom can apply lots of pressure hitting 160 a turn. Yes, it's a big number, but it's not OHKOing EX's and Megas anytime soon. Combined with a Golbat or Crobat snipe, Mega Houndoom is able to hit those higher numbers for only two energy, and consistently when you factor in Burning Energy, Blacksmith, and Mega Turbi. You can start swinging for 180 with a bat potentially on T2 with good draw. Overall, I think Houndoom will definitely see play in multiple ways, whether burrowing away or hitting for 180.
Click to expand...

These ideas are amazing. I came to the Bunnelby conclusion as well: It is EXTREMELY hard to deal with something that large, especially with a Hard Charm attached to it. I would have never come up with Bats + M Houndoom EX. I dunno why, but I never thought about it (and having played Bats, I feel even worse!). It also means we don't have to prioritize things like Muscle Band and can instead focus more on utility: Battle Compressor/Scorched Earth + Blacksmith wombos, Energy Disruption, Bat Bouncers, etc. To be honest, though... I don't know which I like more. The idea of Houndoom EX/Bunnelby Mill with 3-4 Revives and Trick Shovels etc. sounds absolutely brutal, especially because he only needs 1 Energy as well to malfunction. As a matter of fact, you can also use 1-2 Blacksmith to set up Grand Flame, which will set up a Benched Bunnelby/Houndoom EX.

Either way, this is going to be awesome.
 
I immediately saw potential in the Houndoom Mill Deck. It also works great with AZ and Max Potion because of the High HP and the low energy requirement. You could also include Pyroar to stall time against basic decks. Works well with all the Fire support and Houndoom's second attack.

On the other hand, there are many decks that can hit for 170 or more. Houndoom EX would give two price cards instead of one. I think that might be troublesome.
 
Robin Aisaga said:
I immediately saw potential in the Houndoom Mill Deck. It also works great with AZ and Max Potion because of the High HP and the low energy requirement. You could also include Pyroar to stall time against basic decks. Works well with all the Fire support and Houndoom's second attack.

On the other hand, there are many decks that can hit for 170 or more. Houndoom EX would give two price cards instead of one. I think that might be troublesome.
Click to expand...

True, true. To be perfectly honest, the more I think and talk about normal Houndoom EX and the Mill variant, the more and more I am convinced that it will be a Top Tier deck, especially if you consider that it can still OHKO Vespiquen (without a Hard Charm) without any real extra requirement (tech in a 1-2 Blacksmith and everything is peachy keen). That in itself makes him dangerous. Luckily for me, it is my b-day today and I will be getting my box in sometime later. I hope to pull a bunch of Houndoom EX (let's go fluke box!) so I can simply build this deck without having to expend too much more for random resources.

That said, M Houndoom EX is still pretty good. I will admit, 160 is not exactly...High Damage, but considering it is for 2 Energy and is easily Blacksmith-able (I mention this card a lot, but the thing is INSANE!), it is pretty awesome, IMO. Still, the mill variant will definitely be better in this format overall.
 
Robin Aisaga said:
Well happy birthday to you~ I heard pull rates were pretty good this time
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Thank you! Same. I'm super excited!

Actually, thinking about Houndoom Mill specifically... we should start working on a Shell of sorts. This one is going to be for Standard:

Pokemon:
  • 4 Houndoom EX
  • 2-4 Bunnelby (Omega)
  • 0-1 Mr. Mime (Bench Protection) (Mayhaps?)
Supporters/Trainers/Stadiums:
  • 4 Professor Sycamore
  • 0-2 Tierno
  • 1-2 Blacksmith
  • 1 Lysandre
  • 4 Team Flare Grunts
  • 1-2 Xerosic
  • 0-1 Hex Maniac
  • 4 Crushing Hammer
  • 4 Trainers' Mail
  • 2-4 Ultra Ball
  • 0-2 Level Ball
  • 0-4 Trick Shovel (I really have no idea lol)
  • 1-2 Enhanced Hammer
  • 0-1 Super Rod
  • 0-1 Sacred Ash (if not Super Rod)
Energy:
  • x Fire Energy
Then other random techs, preferences, etc. I know I am missing a few key things, but here is our start, at least!
 
4 Team Flare Grunts? That seems a little much, I'd only run two, but that is my opinion. Also I noticed you have no VS seekers, most decks in format run 3 of them at least, most of the time 4. Now I would run only about 8 fire energies, seeing as you have really low energy requirements and you can accelerate it. Also, instead of Tierno, I would consider judge for more disruption. I am aware that you also get 4 cards, but throw some Shaymins in there and not only can you recover from that amount of cards, you increase your consistency aswell. All in all, a couple changes the the skeleton, and you got a good body in your deck.
 
Another idea to use is the Assault Vest as a way to guard against 1 hitters in this format with the Houndoom Mill.

Actually, I see M Houndoom - Bats as an excellent strategy! The issue I saw with M Houndoom was it had a Damage Crisis: 80 Damage wasn't enough to knock out those common 90 HP attackers, and 160 wasn't enough to knock out EX attackers. But Bats shoud easily compensate for this problem. I'm going to try that!
 
Ghazernado said:
I was wondering when a thread like this would appear, and I have some differing ideas with both the basic and mega in the Houndoom line. First, the basic: Bunnelby. Just, Bunnelby. Having 4 bunnies to burrow continuously is already frustrating, but adding in more mill attackers with almost 3x the HP? Tough to win against, especially if the mill player is playing revive. The Mega: Bats. I've heard people say Mega Houndoom can apply lots of pressure hitting 160 a turn. Yes, it's a big number, but it's not OHKOing EX's and Megas anytime soon. Combined with a Golbat or Crobat snipe, Mega Houndoom is able to hit those higher numbers for only two energy, and consistently when you factor in Burning Energy, Blacksmith, and Mega Turbi. You can start swinging for 180 with a bat potentially on T2 with good draw. Overall, I think Houndoom will definitely see play in multiple ways, whether burrowing away or hitting for 180.
Click to expand...


Use this in expanded with laser bank and shadow triad!

You can use forrestress spam as well, as it damages all the opponents pokemon
 
In the mill variant, it might be a decent idea to play a couple M Houndooms with Shrine of Memories or Celebi EX and Max Potion. Would allow for better stalling, but I'm not sure there's enough room in the deck, since that would be at least 6-8 cards.
 
Alderein said:
4 Team Flare Grunts? That seems a little much, I'd only run two, but that is my opinion. Also I noticed you have no VS seekers, most decks in format run 3 of them at least, most of the time 4. Now I would run only about 8 fire energies, seeing as you have really low energy requirements and you can accelerate it. Also, instead of Tierno, I would consider judge for more disruption. I am aware that you also get 4 cards, but throw some Shaymins in there and not only can you recover from that amount of cards, you increase your consistency aswell. All in all, a couple changes the the skeleton, and you got a good body in your deck.
Click to expand...

I told you I was missing something big. :p
VS Seeker was supposed to be in there. Yeah, I figured 4 Grunts may be a bit much, but it is also fairly crucial that your opponent is disrupted of any attempts to get in to the game. Still, 2-3 would work. Also, Judge should be in here as a 1-of (or more). That card has been amazing in testing today. I still like Tierno as well, though. Drawing 3 Cards does seem underwhelming, but in reality, it really does help a lot, especially when I have no desire to reset my hand.

But, between your suggestions and my skeleton, I think we just mapped out a deck that is going to scare a lot of people. That makes me happy!
 
What about Bats? The idea is to use Mega Houndoom and Bats to get KOs. Does anyone know how this works in practice? So far I can only find a video of it on MikePTCGO. Any TheoryMon?
 
When I first reviewed Houndoom EX, my immediate thought (like other players) was that if Bunnelby wished it had an evolution, it would be this Pokémon. From my experience, Bunnelby decks have not been that difficult to beat; however, this "big dog" will be a very different story for several reasons
  • Significantly more HP
  • Will most likely not be 1HKOd
  • 2nd attack can also be used to inflict some minor damage, as well as accelerate energy onto an awaiting benched Pokémon
  • Opponents' EX-"walls" can not stop Melting Horn's milling effect
  • AZ, Cassius, Max Potion and/or Pokémon Center Lady can keep it "healthy" enough for it to continue mill opponent's decks
Its Mega also offers some interesting options too:
  • CONTINUOUSLY inflict 160/180 damage (with Muscle Band) damage turn after turn
  • Provide the additional 25%+ HP boost, but can still mill opponents' decks
As we know, these Dogs' attacks energy requirements is digustingly low (either 1 or 2 R/Blazing energy); Inferno Fang's discarded Blazing energy will just "bounce back" right onto M Houndoom EX; and Blacksmith can be used to immediately power-up M Houndoom - so, one does not have to commit energy attachment at the risk of it being Crushing Hammer'd away.

Last, but not least, there are only a few Pokémon (Raichu and Vespiquen - running Vaporeon) that can "easily" 1HKO these Dogs - there are a few others too that can 1HKO these Dogs, but not as "easily". The good news, in this case, one will see it coming and can prepare.

From my perspective, this would be an "agressive" mill deck, and my deck shell would start with:

4 Houndoom EX
2 M Houndoom EX - to gain the 25%+ HP
4 Bunnelby (PRC 121)

4 Scorched Earth - supplemental draw support and counter Stadium
4 Trick Shovel
2 Enhanced Hammer
2 Tool Retriever - to remove possible opponent's Head Ringers or my Spirit Links
3 Hard Charm
4 Ultra Ball
2 Blacksmith
4 VS Seeker
2 AZ (or Cassius)
1 Super Rod
2 Trainer's Mail
1 Lysandre
3 Professor Sycamore
3 Giovanni's Scheme
1 Hex Maniac
1 Skyla

This is an extremely powerful combo not to be taken likely.

Tier 1 deck nominee perhaps?
 
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asdjklghty said:
What about Bats? The idea is to use Mega Houndoom and Bats to get KOs. Does anyone know how this works in practice? So far I can only find a video of it on MikePTCGO. Any TheoryMon?
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Unfortunately, I have yet to be able to think too much about it. I will later today and post some of my thoughts, however.

First, though...

Pokemon:
  • 4 Houndoom EX
  • 4 Bunnelby (PCL 121)
  • 1 Mr. Mime (BRT 97)

Supporters/Items/Stadiums:
  • 4 Professor Sycamore
  • 4 Team Flare Grunts
  • 2 Professor Birch's Observations
  • 1 Judge
  • 1 Blacksmith
  • 1 Xerosic
  • 1 Lysandre
  • 1 Hex Maniac
  • 4 VS Seeker
  • 4 Crushing Hammer
  • 4 Trainers' Mail
  • 4 Trick Shovel
  • 3 Ultra Ball
  • 2 Revive
  • 1 Professor's Letter
  • 1 Enhanced Hammer
  • 1 Super Rod
  • 1 Town Map
  • 4 Parallel City

Energy:
  • 6 Fire Energy
This is all theoretical, but this is something I want to test nonetheless. The concept is so simple, yet so disgusting that I almost am considering not building it because I know the frustrations it will cause. Basically, Energy Deny your way to victory and watch them struggle to take on a MUCH larger Bunnelby. I feel that 6 Energy is good for now, but I may add one more (or may take one out, depending).

TuxedoBlack said:
When I first reviewed Houndoom EX, my immediate thought (like other players) was that if Bunnelby wished it had an evolution, it would be this Pokémon. From my experience, Bunnelby decks have not been that difficult to beat; however, this "big dog" will be a very different story for several reasons:



    • Significantly more HP
    • Will most likely not be 1HKOd
    • 2nd attack can also be used to inflict some minor damage, as well as accelerate energy onto an awaiting benched Pokémon
    • Opponents' EX-"walls" can not stop Melting Horn's milling effect
    • AZ, Cassius, Max Potion and/or Pokémon Center Lady can keep it "healthy" enough for it to continue mill opponent's decks
Its Mega also offers some interesting options too:
  • CONTINUOUSLY inflict 160/180 damage (with Muscle Band) damage turn after turn
  • Provide the additional 25%+ HP boost, but can still mill opponents' decks
As we know, these Dogs' attacks energy requirements is digustingly low (either 1 or 2 R/Blazing energy); Inferno Fang's discarded Blazing energy will just "bounce back" right onto M Houndoom EX; and Blacksmith can be used to immediately power-up M Houndoom - so, one does not have to commit energy attachment at the risk of it being Crushing Hammer'd away.

Last, but not least, there are only a few Pokémon (Raichu and Vespiquen - running Vaporeon) that can "easily" 1HKO these Dogs - there are a few others too that can 1HKO these Dogs, but not as "easily". The good news, in this case, one will see it coming and can prepare.

From my perspective, this would be an "agressive" mill deck, and my deck shell would start with:

4 Houndoom EX
2 M Houndoom EX - to gain the 25%+ HP
4 Bunnelby (PRC 121)

4 Scorched Earth - supplemental draw support and counter Stadium
4 Trick Shovel
2 Enhanced Hammer
2 Tool Retriever - to remove possible opponent's Head Ringers or my Spirit Links
3 Hard Charm
4 Ultra Ball
2 Blacksmith
4 VS Seeker
2 AZ (or Cassius)
1 Super Rod
2 Trainer's Mail
1 Lysandre
3 Professor Sycamore
3 Giovanni's Scheme
1 Hex Maniac
1 Skyla

This is an extremely powerful combo not to be taken likely.

Tier 1 deck nominee perhaps?
Click to expand...

Going to be honest... I find it weird that we both posted lists within 5 minutes of each other (great minds think alike!).
I forgot Hard Charms in my list, so I will be adding those in. I like Skyla as well. Heck, I like your list more than my own, to be perfectly honest!

As far as Tiers go, and I have been saying this to my friends all week... This deck is Tier 1 material. It's just as annoying and strong as Bunnelby was, but so so SO much harder to deal with. Also, side note: I personally believe everyone should watch for Raichu BREAK decks as well. The fact that Circuit Raichu is still good means that the deck is about to get a lot more mean.
 
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Asmer said:
Thank you! Same. I'm super excited!

Actually, thinking about Houndoom Mill specifically... we should start working on a Shell of sorts. This one is going to be for Standard:

Pokemon:
  • 4 Houndoom EX
  • 2-4 Bunnelby (Omega)
  • 0-1 Mr. Mime (Bench Protection) (Mayhaps?)
Supporters/Trainers/Stadiums:
  • 4 Professor Sycamore
  • 0-2 Tierno
  • 1-2 Blacksmith
  • 1 Lysandre
  • 4 Team Flare Grunts
  • 1-2 Xerosic
  • 0-1 Hex Maniac
  • 4 Crushing Hammer
  • 4 Trainers' Mail
  • 2-4 Ultra Ball
  • 0-2 Level Ball
  • 0-4 Trick Shovel (I really have no idea lol)
  • 1-2 Enhanced Hammer
  • 0-1 Super Rod
  • 0-1 Sacred Ash (if not Super Rod)
Energy:
  • x Fire Energy
Then other random techs, preferences, etc. I know I am missing a few key things, but here is our start, at least!
Click to expand...
You need that new fire special energy. If your attack discards energy they go right back. This with bunnelby discarding the world would be hard. My thoughts were to add in sparkling robe and maybe a poisoning ability pokemon. That will get your OHKO on most ex in the game.
 
Scratch my idea of using M Houndoom! Once we get the new Fighting Spirit Belt in February that'll be completely outclassed. I can't wait to make this deck myself. Hopefully I can get some time to work on it soon.
 
Houndoom gets steamrolled by Regice. I'd say Pyroar gives you the best chance at overcoming it besides a Regice-specific tech.
 
Pinecone said:
Houndoom gets steamrolled by Regice. I'd say Pyroar gives you the best chance at overcoming it besides a Regice-specific tech.
Click to expand...
I think one way to help this match-up is with Weakness Policy. Yes, you may say it's a 3HKO (2 with Muscle Band), but I realized that Max Potion would work really well in a Houndoom/Bunnelby mill deck. 4 Max Potion and 4 Super Potion would really do the trick. Let's say you run 8 energy. You can run A. Energy Retrieval 2. Fisherman and VS Seeker 3. Use Houndoom's second attack that gets back energy. 4. Use Bunnebly's Rototiller to get back energy.
 
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