The New Normal of How Powerful Each Type Will Be

Nocturne

Nocturne

Aspiring Trainer
Member
normal =

normal basically stays the same since it does not take any huge loss from the rotation and lugia isent really specifically for normal type decks
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water ---------------

water gets nuked to death with the loss of blastoise keldeo empoleon etc but you can still try your luck out with swampert but the new set doesent really boost water
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electric -+

electric loses cards like zekrom which were useful but gains ampharos which can be good but it means you likely will have a deck with 2 seperate EX manectric and ampharos which might get bogged down but with everyone replacing mewtwo with lugia electric can strike hard
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fire++++++++++

fire was the weakest type which its weakness only helped make steel a powerhouse now fire loses reshiram but gains entei and volcorona and with grass coming back it only boosts fire more
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grass+++++++++

grass has a epic boost with ariados sceptile M sceptile vespiqueen and vileplume also the rotation wont really hurt it but grass can add in older cards like shiftry for draws and beautifly which is one of the only safeguarders now and you have little to worry about from toads and whailords
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fighting++++
fighting type sucked before XY so the rotation doesent really hurt but machamp is now here to make it stronger and hippowdon is one of the few ex blockers/safeguarders also lucario remains good and part of fighting gets stronger with psychic nerfing while some gets weaker with grass buffing

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psychic-----------------------------------------
R.I.P psychic got massive amounts of nerf mew is gone which hurts night march mewtwo is gone garboder is gone deoxyes is also gone so you basically have to live on gengar trevenant or bat gallade decks

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dark------
dark got hit hard with the loss of darkrai zorurark and tyranitar wont be so helpful without free retreat and everyone knows that dark decks basically require darkrai right now

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steel =-

steel you would think is nuked due to klinklang rotated but not really you still have bronzong excadrill and aegislash ex which actually becomes better now that there are even more special energies also now you get a metagross that allows more retreating to help metal link and can hit for 160 damage just beware of the rise of fire
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dragon =+

dragon only gets a small change giratina which is not all that useful unless pared with something like vileplume

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fairy =+

fairy gains nothing of worth and only 1 fairy type card even gets rotated due to being a BW promo you could say it is very slightly stronger due to steel being a little weakened
 
Gonna have to question these. The thing I noticed when at first I was going Type by Type is... how are you breaking things down?

True mono-Type decks are a rarity; I'm not sure how many if any are currently viable. Mostly mono-Type decks aren't so rare but neither are they the norm unless we only focus on what type of Basic Energy is being used... which isn't always a good measure since we've got Special Energy cards like Rainbow Energy out there. When I consider a Type, I like to look at how its Weakness/Resistance match-ups are going, its direct Type support (that which is available only to that Type, but not necessarily restricted to mono-Type decks) and indirect support (stuff that doesn't care what the Pokémon Type is). I don't usually worry about the Energy Type because we've had a Pokémon that was one Type with Energy costs of a different (non-Colorless) Type for about 15 years (nearly since the game began).

Also I expect a different kind of Item lock via the new Vileplume will hit pretty evenly across the board.

Disclaimer: I'm guessing as well, but here we go.

The only "mostly" Colorless-Type deck isn't so much focused around the Type so much as the main attacker and main source of draw power happen to be Colorless: Colorless M Rayquaza-EX decks. Weakness and Resistance don't apply, but Winona is still here and Lugia-EX (XY: Ancient Origins) might not matter much or it could be important seeing that it can use similar resources but doesn't care about quite the same set-up as M Rayquaza-EX. Most of what is lost (Aspertia City Gym, a few lesser Colorless-Type attackers) doesn't seem overly important, so I believe this is a slight improvement.

The Darkness-Type is tough to predict. One one hand, most Darkness-Types are Fighting Weak and some of the well known Fighting-Type attackers (including a few still relevant ones like Landorus-EX) are now gone. On the other hand the current best Darkness-Type attacker (Yveltal-EX) is Lightning Weak and that Type should be getting pumped up. I am thinking this is a slight drop, but I'm not sure if it will actually be enough to matter. How the Fairy-Type responds could make for a more significant dip.

The Dragon-Type loses some of its classical support, namely Altaria with Fight Song, but then again that hasn't made a huge bit of difference. You won't be able to diversify Weakness now, not that adding self-Weakness was that great of an option. Since I'm making a guess, I think it will stay largely the same; not gaining much but not losing much either.

The Fairy-Type isn't getting anything important this set, so it boils down to whether or not the absence of anything else will open things up for them and... I'm not really seeing it. Ability-lock becoming more difficult helps Fairy Transfer decks but then again, same for a lot of other ones, including those Bronzong (PHF) decks that can fuel cards that just flatten Fairy-Types (even when the deck isn't focused on them). Just curious... what promo was being rotated? None of the BW promos should be Fairy-Types since it was an invention of the XY-era, but just in case I checked and I'm not seeing it.

The Fighting-Type loses Landorus-EX plus a few other notables, but again it loses some of its older competition as well and the remaining Fighting-Types might be able to step up and be "different" as opposed to "lesser". I am thinking it may be "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

The Fire-Type has potential to improve, but then again the Grass-Type had the potential to improve with Grass Weakness all over... and yet only VirGen and decks that could work in Leafeon [Plasma] ever cashed in on it (and VirGen was going to see play anyway!). Losing the original Reshiram hurts but there are slightly inferior (at least looking) successors. If it can deliver against the anticipated Grass Type surge it will be better... but then again it is a surprise it isn't better now.

The Grass-Type gets key direct and indirect support; if it somehow whiffs this time, I don't know what will happen. It should at least be a significant presence if not the next scheduled powerhouse. We'll miss Virizion-EX and Genesect-EX but only the former was going to be a more generic presence. Again though we've had predictions like that before, only to see them fall flat. Plus most of what we've been aching for them to counter is already likely to lose power simply due to rotation (Seismitoad-EX) or familiarity (Wailord-EX decks worked because they were unexpected: now not so much).

Lightning-Types are also supposed to get a big boost, but I'm not sure how well it will carry through. The Type should remain solid though as whatever rotates was already diminished in power. Raihcu (XY), Manectric-EX and M Manectric-EX aren't going anyway. The big advantage is that Lightning Weakness likely isn't going away anytime soon, but be wary if there is an initial surge that obliterates most of the Weakness from the competitive metagame. That is why the metagame is so complicated, it isn't just what is good now but reading what will be good that marks top talent.

Metal-Types should remain solid; I was surprised that Klinklang [Plasma] was actually working as a serious deck, and that's going to be gone. Of course so was a lot of what it was countering. I'm more concerned that it loses Cobalion-EX, so discarding Special Energy cards/punching through protective effects will have to be imported from another Type or else no longer included.

Psychic-Types are in this extra weird area; the former top Psychic-Types are all gone, but that might leave an opening for some other surprisingly solid choices. Wobbats finally gets rid of one (possibly both) of its main rivals: no more Landobats and Toadbats might not survive the loss of Hypnotoxic Laser... and no more Garbodor not only helps Crobat (PHF) but also means Wobbuffet is one of the remaining ways to shut down (some) Abilities. Losing Sigilyph w/Safeguard hurts.

The Water-Type is "meh"; Seismitoad-EX has been its fangs for a while, and yet at the same time also hit so light that it wasn't even that much of a Water-Type presence. Worried about the loss of Suicune (PLB) and its Safeguard. Keldeo-EX was nice but also worked with almost everything since attacking wasn't its "main thing". Blastoise has more often been used to fuel non-Water-Type attackers than Water-Types. Empoleon w/Diving Draw was most recently run for its Ability first and attacking prowess second... if at all. It is diminished, but it didn't have all that much in the first place. As a Type. I'm not denying the cards that were powerful.

I'm not too confident on all of these, but I think they are at least a good starting point for debate and discussion. ;)
 
Otaku said:
The big advantage is that Lightning Weakness likely isn't going away anytime soon, but be wary if there is an initial surge that obliterates most of the Weakness from the competitive metagame.
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They are printing an energy next set that negates weakness for Electric types. It makes Electric hard to beat for next format with Rough Seas still a card.
 
Elbow said:
They are printing an energy next set that negates weakness for Electric types. It makes Electric hard to beat for next format with Rough Seas still a card.
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They are printing a Special Energy that negates Weakness for Lightning-Types, yes. It is important to analyze what that means.

  1. They only help Lightning-Types in a specific match-up; namely when your facing Weakness. The best Type specific Special Energy cards have broader application.
  2. Timing; if anything gets rid of said Energy before you use it protects your Pokémon from Weakness, then it wasn't anymore useful than a basic Lightning Energy. Maybe even less useful.
  3. If you're using it then either you're runnier heavier on Special Energy or you're cutting back on another Special Energy card.
  4. One Energy protects one target, and usually eats up your manual Energy attachment for the turn.
  5. The effect doesn't stack. At all. Two of it on a single target only provide redundancy in case of removal. Sometimes you'll want that, most of the time it is a waste and a potential incentive to run fewer of it. Either you run less and risk not having it when you need it, or you run more and risk not having something else when you need it.
  6. Special Energy counters aren't rotating out.
  7. The Fighting-Type may be uniquely qualified to get rid of Special Energy as unless Items and/or Supporters or blocked, Korrina can fetch a Crushing Hammer or Enhanced Hammer.
This new Special Energy will matter, but for now I do not expect it to have a major impact for the reasons I have given.
 
Otaku said:
They are printing a Special Energy that negates Weakness for Lightning-Types, yes. It is important to analyze what that means.

  1. They only help Lightning-Types in a specific match-up; namely when your facing Weakness. The best Type specific Special Energy cards have broader application. True, but against Fighting they almost always lose. Sure, it's only against one specific deck, but that deck is an autoloss. Imagine if there was a grass version of this energy during the time when Pyroar was big? I can imagine everyone using this in their VirGen decks if it did come out.
  2. Timing; if anything gets rid of said Energy before you use it protects your Pokémon from Weakness, then it wasn't anymore useful than a basic Lightning Energy. Maybe even less useful. But you can make this case for any special energy. Replace Lightning with Double Colorless; it still was useful when attached, even more useful then a basic energy when in play.
  3. If you're using it then either you're running heavier on Special Energy or you're cutting back on another Special Energy card. In Manectric decks, they really only run basic energy, so I don't think it is a big deal to cut back on a few basic lightning and add a few Flash energy. Sure, you don't get the added benefit from M Manectric EX's attack, but in a straight Manectric deck with no gimmicks, having too much energy in the discard sucks sometimes as you have Manectrics with 3/4 energy attached to it.
  4. One Energy protects one target, and usually eats up your manual Energy attachment for the turn. Again, thats said for all special energy.
  5. The effect doesn't stack. At all. Two of it on a single target only provide redundancy in case of removal. Sometimes you'll want that, most of the time it is a waste and a potential incentive to run fewer of it. Either you run less and risk not having it when you need it, or you run more and risk not having something else when you need it. Sure, but it still provides energy. And I would expect that people who run electric decks will test for that optimal amount.
  6. Special Energy counters aren't rotating out. I'll give you that one.
  7. The Fighting-Type may be uniquely qualified to get rid of Special Energy as unless Items and/or Supporters or blocked, Korrina can fetch a Crushing Hammer or Enhanced Hammer. I will have to say that if your opponent is discarding energy from Korrina, they aren't doing extra damage. I guess they already have a really good/bad set up, where it probably wouldn't have mattered IMHO.
This new Special Energy will matter, but for now I do not expect it to have a major impact for the reasons I have given. I honestly think it will be very good, but like you said only time will tell.
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For the record, when you post within the quoted text it can be both confusing (I used bold text in some of my comments) and means that I can't actually quote your own responses without manually going in, copying them, and inserting them into the correct tags. Hence the above quote (you can't see it because without anything between them, the system won't recognize the tags and display a quote box). At least my points you responded to were numbered so I'll just keep using numbers. Also for ease of discussion, I'll be referring to the new Lightning-Type Special Energy as Flash Energy, though I don't have confirmation of this being the English name:

  1. Not really seeing how that disproves the point; if the negative Fighting match-up is best handled by Flash Energy, then yes said Special Energy will prove valuable. The less important the match-up proves (or the more alternative options are available), the less useful it will be.
  2. You cannot make the case for any Special Energy unless you cherry pick examples. You attach Double Colorless Energy and either use it to attack or pay to retreat and you've benefited from its effect before it can be discarded by your opponent. With Flash Energy even if you use it to attack or retreat right away, you never tapped into its effect. With some of these Type Specific Special Energy, you can access the benefit of its effect right away and have more control over its relevance when the effect does apply.
  3. Manectric-EX and M Manectric-EX variants might be the place where Flash Energy matters... assuming they are't better off with a different approach. After all, some variants run Yveltal-EX and thus are better off with Shadow Circle and basic Darkness Energy cards. For that matter, anytime you have an attacker with a Weakness different from your Lightning-Types, just relying more on it can be a valid solution.
  4. But not for all forms of Weakness protection! Don't miss the forest for the trees. An Ability might protect everything from Weakness. A Pokémon Tool just one thing, but it eats up a Tool slot instead of an Energy attachment and requires something different to discard or block it (sometimes that is better, sometimes it is worse). I earlier mentioned Shadow Circle and while that involves a Stadium and and a source of [D] Energy, everything with [D] Energy attached is protected.
  5. Again, I'm not sure if you are catching the point; sometimes an effect is better because you just need one of whatever it is in play to get the benefit. Others are better when the effect stacks. With Type specific special Energy, "stacking" is important because there is no good way to search out a TecH Flash Energy. If you run just one, you'll a single Lightning-Type avoiding double damage from Weakness, but you'll have to run a cumbersome searching effect or hope to draw into it at the correct time. Reclaiming it from the discard pile might is also difficult. Two isn't much better. Three or four will make it easier to get when you need it, but won't provide any additional benefit. Not compare that with some of the best Type Specific Energy cards like Double Dragon Energy and Strong Energy.
  6. We agree so this is a placeholder. XD
  7. Context is really important here. Nearly all Lightning-Types are Fighting Weak. Flash Energy protects against Weakness. Fighting-Types can counter Flash Energy by running Enhanced Hammer (among other things). Fighting-Types have Korrina to allow them to efficiently search out both a Fighting-Type Pokémon and an Item, which means while Lightning-Types have to draw into Flash Energy, Fighting-Types have their Type specific Supporter to fetch a counter to Flash Energy. You're better off than if that search was totally free for something else, but the net result is you've used up space in your deck and an Energy attachment so that instead of your opponent doing something like "get Muscle Band, attack for +20 damage that then gets doubled" to "get Enhanced Hammer, still hit for double damage". The big question will be if Enhanced Hammer is worthwhile enough for other match-ups. Flash Energy won't, but if Special Energy remain popular, at least a TecH Enhanced Hammer probably will.
So any one of these wouldn't have much weight, but if even two or three of these hold true, Flash Energy won't be all that hot; probably a lot like Wonder Energy.
 
Korrina is almost always used for set up, early to mid game. That being said, if your opponent can spare a Korrina for the sake of disruption then it's more than likely that they have a good setup rather than the chance of a bad one.
 
GengarGuys said:
Korrina is almost always used for set up, early to mid game. That being said, if your opponent can spare a Korrina for the sake of disruption then it's more than likely that they have a good setup rather than the chance of a bad one.
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Not sure I agree, and for once it is based on somewhat practical experience and not just Theorymon. I really could simply be a bad Korrina player (it isn't like I'm going to tournaments at all, let alone making the top cut at any of note). I'm just frequently running and running into Korrina using decks on the PTCGO. Early game Korrina is primarily used for set-up, but most decks aren't then going to dump all copies beyond the first (or including the first if it doesn't show up in time) via Battle Compressor, Ultra Ball discards, etc.

With Special Energy being so prominent at the moment, Enhanced Hammer is just barely missing a slot on my own builds because I can't justify it over something else that is more important, whether said card is deck specific or general. When the usually favorable Lightning-Type match-ups suddenly drop to neutral (or worse, giving how strong the ones that see play tend to be), Enhanced Hammer will probably find itself replacing one of its current rivals in my own builds. I want to stress "in my own builds" because I've seen enough other builds already working one in.

It also isn't the only option, just the one I settled on because seriously, that post was already lengthy. I might just go back to including Xerosic instead. Either way Flash Energy has two jobs and only one of those is unique to itself: prevent the damage doubling effect of Weakness on Lightning-Type Pokémon and Korrina => Enhanced Hammer was just one example of how that doesn't sound like a good deal. ;)
 
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