OU: Strategy The X and Y Metagame Discussion Thread

RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Greninja is a really promising one. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in OU (But i could very well be wrong) Could work as a pretty OK spiker too, with the high speed stat and all.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Cinesra said:
Protean Greninja ladies and gentlemen. After some testing, Protean has been shown to change a Pokemon's type to the type of the move used before it hits. You effectively gain STAB on every move you use. This makes for some crazy versatility. Your opponent sends in a Fighting type or a strong EQ user to KO your Water/Dark ninja frog? Use Acrobatics and become a mono-flying type and hit them with STAB. Not sure if this is priority or literally just before the move hits, but with Greninja's Speed it might as well be priority.
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Wow. That is really impressive. If he gets any lower than BL this upcoming generation, I will be extremely surprised. STAB on all of your attacks is huge for more than one reason. For one, the power is great. Water-types normally get Ice-type coverage, but there's very few that get extra STAB behind it. Because of this, Grass-type "counters" (ie: Celebi) normally have to be weakened a bit before you can take them out, or you have to have a spot-on sense of prediction. Greninja won't suffer from this problem because of the extra power it will get from STAB.

Even afterwards though, things that would normally counter Greninja (sticking with the Celebi example) don't anymore. After hitting them with Ice Beam, even if the Celebi survives, Greninja is now a pure grass-type, and thus no longer takes super-effective damage from Leaf Storm/Giga Drain. I mean yeah it's got paper-thin defenses so it isn't huge, but it's enough to survive a lot of weak neutral STAB hits or even some moderately powerful non-STAB hits. Not to mention that with Return, Acrobatics, and Hidden Power you can even play around with immunities a little bit.

Also if Greninja gets spikes, (which I did not know until I read rocket's post) I think that would be huge. Fast spikers have always been popular (see: Custap Skarmory, Froslass, Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S) but none of them had any real offensive presense. Greninja carries STAB everything, thus a good amount of offensive pressure in addition to spikes, which seems like it would be a huge asset to any team.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Cinesra said:
Protean Greninja ladies and gentlemen. After some testing, Protean has been shown to change a Pokemon's type to the type of the move used before it hits. You effectively gain STAB on every move you use. This makes for some crazy versatility. Your opponent sends in a Fighting type or a strong EQ user to KO your Water/Dark ninja frog? Use Acrobatics and become a mono-flying type and hit them with STAB. Not sure if this is priority or literally just before the move hits, but with Greninja's Speed it might as well be priority.
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That's some great news. Greninja, I love you.

Serebii's entry on Protean says this:
"Protean: After the Pokémon uses a move, it becomes a pure Pokémon of that type."

Hoping they're dead wrong there. Also, Kecleon gets Protean too, though that's negligible I guess. Could be cool with Sucker Punch or other priority.

~AoH
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

TPO3 said:
After hitting them with Ice Beam, even if the Celebi survives, Greninja is now a pure grass-type, and thus no longer takes super-effective damage from Leaf Storm/Giga Drain.
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I assume you mean pure ice and not grass. I don't want any people getting confused about our glorious new overlord.
AoH said:
Serebii's entry on Protean says this:
"Protean: After the Pokémon uses a move, it becomes a pure Pokémon of that type."

Hoping they're dead wrong there. Also, Kecleon gets Protean too, though that's negligible I guess. Could be cool with Sucker Punch or other priority.
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Multiple people who have beaten the game have said that serebii is wrong and Protean activates before.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Never trust Serebii's information. It's far too vague and unreliable. Too bad the rumor about Greninja getting Rapid Spin was proven false but it still looks like a great pokemon. It even gets U-Turn!
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Greninja is one of the coolest things we got this generation. The versatility of it is awesome, as it is able to use a multitude of sets due to Protean. Special LO + 4 Attacks, Physical LO + 4 Attacks, Spikes, Choice Band, Suicide Lead, etc. 90 Atk and 100 SAtk is pretty disappointing, but the fact it gets STAB on everything it uses more than makes up for the lack of power. My main concern with Greninja is the fact it suffers from major 4MSS.

My favorite set so far:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Nature: Naive / Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- HP Fire / Grass Knot
- U-Turn

The choice between Grass Knot and HP Fire is dependent on if Gastrodon, Jellicent, and bulky Water-types are a concern. If not, pack a teammate who you can U-Turn to should the need arise.

A cool combo that has been talked about is Greninja + Galvantula. Galvantula has the new entry hazard, Sticky Web, which lowers the opponent's speed upon entering. Together Greninja and Galvantula can maintain it by removing every spinner in the game (even Starmie, who is now slower than Galvantula due to Sticky Web). The fact they also form a VoltTurn (or double U-Turn if you want to escape Ground-types) combo makes it even more worthwhile.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

While Greninja will definitely have some versatility, I'm still reluctant to use it because of those average attacking stats and it's still somewhat frail. Yeah, there are frail Pokemon in OU, and Greninja's new ability is going to be really powerful, but it doesn't have enough power to do much. Life Orb will only deplete it to where priority will kill, while choice-locked moves will make it suffer and not switch out. It's one of those somewhat awkward Pokemon to use that are very good under the right circumstances. Like I said, Greninja will be a threat, but someone can just use a powerful attack to knock it out.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Klefki really does seem like a neat Spiker. Prankster+Spikes is really sweet for hyper offense, and it can Imprison the Skarmory/Ferrothorn/Forretress that wants to set up Spikes with it. It's probably not OU due to mediocre stats (base 91 SpD is its highest stat iirc), but it's a really nifty niche.

Greninja is most likely going to hit OU because of the sheer versatility behind it. Offensive spikers are really rare, and getting stab on all of your offensive moves is huge.

Gourgeist seems like a really neat spinblocker. 85/122/75 defenses are pretty nice, not to mention Will-o-Wisp. This is probably the greatest breloom counter we could ever be given. Jellicent's defenses are 100/70/105, so it's not a total replacement. But it's another option for defensive teams. It's worth noting that if Excadrill does come down, Gourgeist will be able to comfortably beat it while Jellicent has a chance of losing to it, even with Will-o-Wisp.

Speaking of spinblockers, Trevenant looks to be a new offensive spinblocker, which is nice because there aren't a lot. Gengar is really the only one. Natural Cure + Rest can keep it healthy all game, and it's also got Will-o-Wisp like its Pumpkin friend.

Dragalgae gets Adaptability, and its Draco Meteors hit harder than Latios', for comparison. Having STAB options to combat Fairies will definitely give this a niche in OU, though I would expect it to be somewhere in high UU/BL rather than OU.

Noivern is also pretty cool. It's the fastest Dragon in the game, which is a big niche for it. Another cool trait it has is hitting through Substitute with Infiltrator. It's rather weak offensively, but dat speed stat can allow it to use Choice Specs pretty handily, especially because it gets U-Turn.

Avalugg honestly looks pretty terrible, but 95/184 physical defenses is only rivaled by Giratina. 95/46 special defense sucks forever, but it's better than Blissey's physical defense to put it into perspective. It's just too bad it got stuck with pure Ice. =/
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

This is from Smogon:

"Defog this Gen has been buffed to remove Entry Hazards from Both sides of the field! This adds all Pokemon that could learn Defog in Gen IV as potential Spinners, able to "Spin" hazards past Ghost Pokemon! What Pokemon with Defog would be good Spinner in Gen VI?"

~AoH
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

It does sound like a really neat move now. It's a "unblockable" spinner (aside from Taunt). It does pretty handily kill stall singlehandedly.

Mostly every team relies on hazards to succeed, but I think that teams that rely on them less than others (ie, SR or Sticky Web is your only hazard) wouldn't mind using Defog instead of Rapid Spin.

List of Pokes that get Defog: Note that as HM moves aren't transferable between Gen4 (when Defog was a HM) and Gen5, the list is pretty small. Pokemon with good potential in OU have been bolded.

Swanna
Braviary
Mandibuzz
Pidgeot
Crobat
Scizor
Noctowl
Shiftry
Swellow
Chatot
Archeops

While not confirmed, this is a list of possible Pokemon that can inherit Defog through breeding. Again, bolded ones are ones with good potential in OU.

Talonflame (Breed from Swanna, Braviary, Mandibuzz)
Noivern (Breed from Swanna, Braviary, Mandibuzz)
Greninja (Breed from Swanna)
Dragalge (Breed from Swanna)
Malimar (Breed from Swanna)
Clawitzer (Breed from Swanna)

Side note: It would be kinda funny if Greninja could Defog after that massive false rumor going around where it could learn Rapid Spin.

EDIT: K so apparently if you trade a Defog user from DPP to HGSS, you won't have to delete Defog to transfer. So the list has grown... a lot. So I'll only list Pokes with solid OU potential to weed out lame things like Beedrill.

Dragonite
Togekiss
Gliscor
Skarmory
Flygon
Salamence
Latias
Latios
Empoleon
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Specifically balanced teams will favor an unblockable Rapid Spin, Stall will be able to make due because the nature of the game is to draw out the game because the Defog user will still take damage from the hazards on the switch in and potentially be punished on its hazard removal turn. Heavy Offense team with a suicide lead will specifically take a hit because that type of hazard setter will be undesirable.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Worth noting that as Defog is a Flying-type move, Talonflame actually gets Priority Defog, as if Talonflame wasn't insane enough already.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Astra said:
It does sound like a really neat move now. It's a "unblockable" spinner (aside from Taunt). It does pretty handily kill stall singlehandedly.
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It hurts stall, but it certainly doesn't kill it. Stall was really hurt last gen by spikes stacking HO, which is now dead / difficult to run with Defog. Spikes stacking HO, and somewhat the huge amount of weather, hurt stall way more than Defog ever will. Stall actually won in this regard with that playstyle taking a huge hit. Defog does hurt in a way, but as long as you pack a bulky hazard setter (which you should be since it's stall) that can outlast the Defog user the match and set them up constantly, you can technically make it work. If the user doesn't have Roost + Defog, wearing it down should be easy. If it does, their moveslots are probably terribly cramped for space (see: Crobat, Latias, Gliscor).

What this does is turn the game into a more Bulky Offense oriented metagame. That's not a bad thing at all, it's actually really good. This metagame is really starting to look good.

RIP Hyper Offense
RIP Weather
RIP Custap Skarmory

Also good luck with Talonflame as your hazard remover when it's weak to x4 Stealth Rock.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

unsheathed said:
RIP Custap Skarmory
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...and just when I started running Unnerve Sticky Web Galvantula to beat Custap Skarm. ;_;

I like the strategy behind the move. Do you pack Defog and hope that your opponent does too so that they can spin for you? Or do you consume a moveslot for it? Adds another interesting face to teambuilding.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Is it confirmed that the weather abilities are nerfed?
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Keeper of Night said:
safariblade said:
Is it confirmed that the weather abilities are nerfed?
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Yes. Weather-inducing abilities only set up weather for 5 turns.
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The weather boosting stones were suped-up though. They will allow weather (including from abilities) to last 10 turns.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

Even so, we can pretty much kiss weather goodbye. It was nice knowin' ya.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

5 turns is enough for a sweep. with 10 and no opposing weather, it's still viable. I don't expect it to completely vanish, but I do expect a decrease in use.
 
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread

I like how XY turned the most useless HM in history into the best move in the game.
 
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