Discussion Thoughts on Ampharos-GX

[VuDu-JuJu]

The more I look at this card the more I realize it could EASILY be the BDIF if it wasn't for Baby Buzz. Throwing in Weakness Policy would fix that issue if you don't have it Blower'd off, but the ability to do up to 150 damage every turn for free with Electripower and Thunder Mountain {PS}, and up to 300 every turn for a single [L] is just insane. There are a lot of tech choices for the deck, like Tapu Koko {PS}, Raikou from Lost Thunder, and Galvantula from Dark Order (free 40 damage to add a card from your discard to hand, recycling whatever you need), and some like Zapdos give you an alternate weakness than Fighting (though, admittedly, Zapdos being weak to [L] is still odd to think about). Electripower (or Electric Power, whatever the spelling is) can stack on itself, and four copies adds 120 dmg to any attacks you use that turn, turning low numbers into OHKO's. Since you can recycle them in multiple ways for free, hitting the big numbers doesn't seem like a challenge at all. Baby Buzz is unfortunately seemingly the only decent counter I can think of, and it just happens to be both a popular and common choice. If the deck manages to find an out to it, I think it'll see some decent play.

 

[CrownAxe]

Everything about Ampharos-GX is easily countered though

Thunder Mountain? They just need to play 1 stadium to permanently remove it (and the meta is already full of stadiums because of Shrine and countering Shrine)

Electricpower? Yes it's good but you have to get them first, you're not going to have 4 all the time. But also after you attack with Electric Recharge to get them back you can just Judge them or Let Loose them back into the deck where you are going to have to draw them out again

This is all on top of the fact it's still a Stage 2 pokemon which are inherently inconsistent

 

[VuDu-JuJu]

Turn 2 Vikavolt decks would like to have a word for you about inconsistency. I'm not accepting "stage 2s are inherently inconsistent" as an argument point. That's a matter of opinion. I can build a T2 stage two deck with incredible consistency without Espeon-Ex in the standard format, and the rise of Gardevoir-Gx, Greninja, and Vikavolt decks are proof that not all stage-2 decks are inherently inconsistent.
Even with Thunder Mountain going to the Lost Zone, a massive chunk of these new electric types only need 2 energy or so to get their suite of moves off. Volkner is an instant energy and rare candy/electripower to set it up. As for "you won't have them all the time", I could say that about a lot of decks and their key cards. That's like saying Beast Ring sucks because it has a very limited usage since you need a specific setup to use it. Same goes for any Poke that adds cards to your hand after attacking, really (Beacon Vulpix anyone).

 

[JumpluffTCG]

I’ll admit I haven’t put too much thought into Ampharos GX. A pairing that immediately comes to mind is Alolan Ninetales GX, which is an obvious boon to any stage 2 for consistency but it’ll also allow you to find your Electric Powers and Weakness Policy and such.

 

[CrownAxe]

Turn 2 Vikavolt decks would like to have a word for you about inconsistency. I'm not accepting "stage 2s are inherently inconsistent" as an argument point. That's a matter of opinion. I can build a T2 stage two deck with incredible consistency without Espeon-Ex in the standard format, and the rise of Gardevoir-Gx, Greninja, and Vikavolt decks are proof that not all stage-2 decks are inherently inconsistent.

I said Stage 2 are inherently inconsistent, that doesn't mean that all the decks revolving around stage 2 are inconsistent/bad. Stage 2s are definitely less consistent then basics because it's effectively a 3 card combo that has to be played out over 2-3 turns which introduces more points of potential failure. More then the simple stage 1, and MUCH more then single card basics.

All of the decks you mentioned have extra factors that help mitigate the inconsistency using Stage 2 bring. Vikavolt is just a support pokemon that you only need to get out the 3 card combo ONCE instead of 3-4 times. Gardevoir running fairy energy let it pair with Sylveon GX to just search out 3 cards with Magical Ribbon (thus getting the whole combo in a single search). Greninja had Water Duplicates allowing you to bypassing the need to find basics or your stage 1s thus bypassing the actual need to combo out stage 2.

In regards to Ampharos GX, it's totally possible that the deck will be fine, but it still has to clear the hurdle of being a deck focused on a Stage 2 before it becomes truly competitve

Even with Thunder Mountain going to the Lost Zone, a massive chunk of these new electric types only need 2 energy or so to get their suite of moves off. Volkner is an instant energy and rare candy/electripower to set it up. As for "you won't have them all the time", I could say that about a lot of decks and their key cards. That's like saying Beast Ring sucks because it has a very limited usage since you need a specific setup to use it. Same goes for any Poke that adds cards to your hand after attacking, really (Beacon Vulpix anyone).

When I was saying "you won't have them all the time" I was referring to having 4 elictripowers, not just eliectripower in general, since you were adamant about making the point be about getting 120 damage every turn. You will not consistently have 4 Electripower. Some will get prized, some will still be stuck in deck. Volker only gets 1 a turn and does so in place of a draw supporter. Which is why getting Judged or Let Loose Marshadow'ed is such a big deal because you will have to repeat finding your electripowers again but this time with less resources.


Ultimately I didn't come here to tell you that Ampharos GX is bad. But you literally said "it could EASILY be the BDIF" which is an absurd statement to make then you look at the big picture and not just get tunnel vision on what cool things the deck can do.

 

[VuDu-JuJu]

I said Stage 2 are inherently inconsistent, that doesn't mean that all the decks revolving around stage 2 are inconsistent/bad. Stage 2s are definitely less consistent then basics because it's effectively a 3 card combo that has to be played out over 2-3 turns which introduces more points of potential failure. More then the simple stage 1, and MUCH more then single card basics.

All of the decks you mentioned have extra factors that help mitigate the inconsistency using Stage 2 bring. Vikavolt is just a support pokemon that you only need to get out the 3 card combo ONCE instead of 3-4 times. Gardevoir running fairy energy let it pair with Sylveon GX to just search out 3 cards with Magical Ribbon (thus getting the whole combo in a single search). Greninja had Water Duplicates allowing you to bypassing the need to find basics or your stage 1s thus bypassing the actual need to combo out stage 2.

In regards to Ampharos GX, it's totally possible that the deck will be fine, but it still has to clear the hurdle of being a deck focused on a Stage 2 before it becomes truly competitve


When I was saying "you won't have them all the time" I was referring to having 4 elictripowers, not just eliectripower in general, since you were adamant about making the point be about getting 120 damage every turn. You will not consistently have 4 Electripower. Some will get prized, some will still be stuck in deck. Volker only gets 1 a turn and does so in place of a draw supporter. Which is why getting Judged or Let Loose Marshadow'ed is such a big deal because you will have to repeat finding your electripowers again but this time with less resources.


Ultimately I didn't come here to tell you that Ampharos GX is bad. But you literally said "it could EASILY be the BDIF" which is an absurd statement to make then you look at the big picture and not just get tunnel vision on what cool things the deck can do.

I'm not gonna sit here and deny you do bring up some topics of where the deck needs to have counters for, but my biggest gripe, and the point I was trying to make, was that we've all seen people completely dismiss a stage 2 pokemon, literally just because it's a stage 2. From a competitive standpoint, that seems really silly to me and going through the past sets here it shows in the comments. THAT, sounds like tunnel vision. Hell, while I know it's not a stage 2 and doesn't prove my point, a lot of people completely dismissed Ultra Necrozma because it had only one non-gx attack. I'm just saying, keep an open mind and don't immediately dismiss a deck for being a stage 2.

 

[Merovingian]

Competitively, Ampharos-GX does hold some merit.

Considering Buzzwole is a big thing at the moment, I think a lot of it success will hinge on whether or not it's still as big as it is in the meta or if it's falling off the map.

 

[Lanstar]

It's hard to predict how good Ampharos-GX will be, for these reasons:

1. It won't be out until February
2. Lost Thunder will soon release, and it has plenty of meta-changing cards before it can come out, and
3. Tag team GX's and other potentially ridiculous cards will come out along with Amphy to disrupt the meta even more.

That said, let me analyze the card:

-240 is pretty good bulk, especially considering how low energy attackers usually have less hp (like Gardevior-GX And Sceptile-GX both having 230 HP)

-The attacks are quite neat, but in practice it may create a tricky dependence about the use of Electropower. With a choice band and all Electropowers used, The 1st attack can hit 180 damage for one energy, and 200 with Prof. Kikui. But the 2nd attack does 150 damage base, and no doubt you'd want to use the items to boost that attack for knockouts... Only to find that using the move not only discards energy, it cripples the 1st attack a bit because you used Electropowers to boost the 2nd attack! This makes it harder to maintain damage pressure upon your opponent - even if you manage to get all 4 Electropowers in your hand.

-The GX attack is quite powerful - yet you have to be careful about hand disruption

-The fighting weakness hurts it quite a bit, as fighting attackers have easy ways to deal tons of damage with minimal energy. One could patch it up with weakness policy, but this prevents using choice band to hit important numbers.

-The stage 2 problem is troublesome, but there are a lot of nice support options to help it set up. One that is overlooked is the Fluffy Pillow Mareep, which can leave opponents asleep when it is in the active spot! That is really powerful, as you can use the ability, Rare candy to evolve, and attack afterwards to annoy opponents and keep it safe. Then there is the new Zapdos, which hits 80 damage upon switching in for 1 energy, and the fairy Alolan Ninetales-GX to help set things up - although that might turn clunky. Shuckle-GX can also work to stall as well.

I forsee people trying to make it work, but I don't know how well it will do. It is way too early, as the metagame could drastically change quite a lot. But if Buzzwole gets played less, and hand disruption cards remain limited, it might have a place in the meta.

 

[TorchHG]

So, just with the current Metagame, Buzzwole, Lycanroc GX, and now even Buzzwole GX are present factors that do make up a significant portion and should be accounted for. That being said, they are not the entire metagame as Psychic Malamar (although Marshadow GX is a problem, too), Rayquaza GX, and some other less represented decks do share the metagame, currently.

It is also important to note that Weakness Policy is still an option as a tool that does stick fairly well, and even though Choice Band is important for hitting certain numbers, you rarely have to worry about needing both in a specific game.

When Lost Thunder comes out, I do believe that Stage 2 decks will become a lot more consistent because of the Alolan Ninetales GX @Lanstar mentioned. If you start Alolan Vulpix and manage to get your target basic out on first turn going second, you guarantee a turn 2 stage 2 unless Judge or Marshadow are used, and if either of those get used and because of the counts most decks are running, it ensures that Ampharos GX's GX attack will retain value.

I also think that Lost Thunder will vary the Metagame and make Buzzwole less of an issue. As it is, many people are opting not to play Buzzwole / Shrine just because it's gameplan is a lot more drawn out.