Discussion Thoughts on Metagross GX/ Necrozma GX in Standard?

[CaptZero]

Looking at the top tier decks in my region it's really looking like we've got a rock-paper-scissors situation. With Gardy sitting pretty at the top spot and Metagross and Volcanion causing a meta stir just below. I really don't want to step into that mire.

Volc and Ho-oh have been my go-to for a few tournaments, but Gardevoir is such a hard match up for that archetype in my opinion. You need so much energy and your main acceleration methods end your turn (Kiawe and Nitro Tank). You could play a Max Elixir line, but the extra items in your discard leaves you open to Garb variants.

Metagross has pretty good matchups against everything, Gardy included, not named Volcanion. If instead of Metagross as your main attacker wouldn't it be pretty strong from a meta standpoint to go with Necrozma GX as your main attacker? The high output from Necrozma GX one shots a large portion of the meta and when he attacks he just discards all of his energy anyway, making it a little more difficult to one shot him with Gardy. Plus with a few [M] energy in the mix you make it easy enough to put up a nice Metagross wall that Gardy will have trouble breaking down, meanwhile taking double damage.

I'm having a deck crisis here. I really want to pick one deck and get really comfortable with it, but I don't like feeling like there's a matchup that I'm just going to straight up lose.

 

[ForeverRanger91]

My feelings on selecting a deck is that pick one that you like and roll with it. Have fun and enjoy what you play.

 

[FlavorfulPineApl]

Looking at the top tier decks in my region it's really looking like we've got a rock-paper-scissors situation. With Gardy sitting pretty at the top spot and Metagross and Volcanion causing a meta stir just below. I really don't want to step into that mire.

Volc and Ho-oh have been my go-to for a few tournaments, but Gardevoir is such a hard match up for that archetype in my opinion. You need so much energy and your main acceleration methods end your turn (Kiawe and Nitro Tank). You could play a Max Elixir line, but the extra items in your discard leaves you open to Garb variants.

Metagross has pretty good matchups against everything, Gardy included, not named Volcanion. If instead of Metagross as your main attacker wouldn't it be pretty strong from a meta standpoint to go with Necrozma GX as your main attacker? The high output from Necrozma GX one shots a large portion of the meta and when he attacks he just discards all of his energy anyway, making it a little more difficult to one shot him with Gardy. Plus with a few [M] energy in the mix you make it easy enough to put up a nice Metagross wall that Gardy will have trouble breaking down, meanwhile taking double damage.

I'm having a deck crisis here. I really want to pick one deck and get really comfortable with it, but I don't like feeling like there's a matchup that I'm just going to straight up lose.

Each deck has an auto loss, the more you try to tech against it, the more inconsistent you make your deck. Stick with the idea of Metagross/Necrozma, its fun and really good.

 

[Kietharr]

Any Metagross/Necrozma deck should be entirely Metagross focused with a Necrozma included for the odd situations where a Black Ray is a better GX attack to use than Algorithm.

I really don't like Metagross lists that split energy or are Necrozma focused, Necrozma only does more damage than Metagross with 3 energy and it's much frailer, and weak to psychic. The fact that your support poke for it is a stage 2 means you will inevitably burn items to build your bench, and only a few need be in discard for Trashalanche to OHKO. Basically every Garb variant is a positive matchup without Flareon AOR in the mix imo. Considering the finals were all Garb and Gardevoir, Metagross is in a pretty good position.

Spread damage for rounding off on those 200HP GX cards is nice though which is why I use a Koko promo in my list, it's also nice to have a 0 retreat on the bench so you can use Guzma to reset giga hammer if garbotoxin is online, which is the only way most Garb variants I've seen have a chance against Metagross.

Solgaleo is also kind of a dark horse metal deck that hasn't gotten much attention since Metagross came out in the same set as Rayquaza and Baby Solg. Solgaleo mixed with rainbow energy gives you a huge degree of versatility/unpredictability, you can sol burst a few of those out and tech basically any attacker you want into your deck with them. Solgaleo itself OHKOs literally every card in the game right now with a choice banded Sunsteel Strike which isn't something to sleep on.

 

[TheDude133]

Any Metagross/Necrozma deck should be entirely Metagross focused with a Necrozma included for the odd situations where a Black Ray is a better GX attack to use than Algorithm.

I really don't like Metagross lists that split energy or are Necrozma focused, Necrozma only does more damage than Metagross with 3 energy and it's much frailer, and weak to psychic. The fact that your support poke for it is a stage 2 means you will inevitably burn items to build your bench, and only a few need be in discard for Trashalanche to OHKO. Basically every Garb variant is a positive matchup without Flareon AOR in the mix imo. Considering the finals were all Garb and Gardevoir, Metagross is in a pretty good position.

Spread damage for rounding off on those 200HP GX cards is nice though which is why I use a Koko promo in my list, it's also nice to have a 0 retreat on the bench so you can use Guzma to reset giga hammer if garbotoxin is online, which is the only way most Garb variants I've seen have a chance against Metagross.

Solgaleo is also kind of a dark horse metal deck that hasn't gotten much attention since Metagross came out in the same set as Rayquaza and Baby Solg. Solgaleo mixed with rainbow energy gives you a huge degree of versatility/unpredictability, you can sol burst a few of those out and tech basically any attacker you want into your deck with them. Solgaleo itself OHKOs literally every card in the game right now with a choice banded Sunsteel Strike which isn't something to sleep on.

Solgaleo's big problem is that 1-prize decks are popular right now. With Garbodor, Zoroark, and Greninja being played, and Xerneas BREAK showing its face, you do literally nothing to those decks. they are all auto-lose. If they weren't around, i could see Solgaleo easily being in the tier 2 spot, maybe even high tier 2.

 

[Kietharr]

Solgaleo can run baby solg as well as a multitude of tech attackers to deal with one prizers now. Notably babysolg's 170 base attack hits OHKO on every one prize attacker including the bulky BREAK cards like Greninja just like Sunsteel hits OHKO on every two prize in the game with band. Drampa is also an option, considering Solg decks usually run rainbow energy and ultra road lets you move your bench around a lot it's a pretty natural inclusion to boot.

In a one prize game you just evolve one GX and only use it for burst, get two babies online and move between them using the GX ability. Garbotoxin is an issue but Guzma provides a work around like it does for Metagross.

If you think Solg autoloses against one prize decks you probably haven't taken a serious look at it since SM base.

 

[Seastrome]

As a Gardevoir player, i feel the same way about what deck to use. It's unsettling to potentially have your tournament hopes dashed because you run into the one deck that beats yours. It's almost like it's more luck of the pairings than anything else involved with the game. As a former Yugioh player, it's not something I'm used to.

 

[TheDude133]

Solgaleo can run baby solg as well as a multitude of tech attackers to deal with one prizers now. Notably babysolg's 170 base attack hits OHKO on every one prize attacker including the bulky BREAK cards like Greninja just like Sunsteel hits OHKO on every two prize in the game with band. Drampa is also an option, considering Solg decks usually run rainbow energy and ultra road lets you move your bench around a lot it's a pretty natural inclusion to boot.

In a one prize game you just evolve one GX and only use it for burst, get two babies online and move between them using the GX ability. Garbotoxin is an issue but Guzma provides a work around like it does for Metagross.

If you think Solg autoloses against one prize decks you probably haven't taken a serious look at it since SM base.

I play the deck now lol, and it has a hard time against 1-prize decks. Even with the baby Galeo, it has a hard time. Rayquaza can't OHKO anything, and baby Galeo is easily ohko'd. There isn't another good 1-prize attacker to use until we get the Lele promo, and even then, it won't solve the problem. I've tested generations Mewtwo, Rayquaza, even cobalion, it doesn't solve the problem. It helps a little and keeps you a live longer, but 1-prize attacker decks, if they're smart and don't play their GX's down and Target Rayquaza, auto win the matchup.

 

[CaptZero]

My feelings on selecting a deck is that pick one that you like and roll with it. Have fun and enjoy what you play.

I like playing pretty much any kind of deck, so long as it isn't super slow and stall based like Quad Sylveon GX. I find enjoyment out of being competitive, and I want to try for a World's invite.

Each deck has an auto loss, the more you try to tech against it, the more inconsistent you make your deck. Stick with the idea of Metagross/Necrozma, its fun and really good.

Good decks are designed around dealing with auto loses. Top level decks don't have "techs" to deal with poor matchups, they design in options.

I really don't like Metagross lists that split energy or are Necrozma focused, Necrozma only does more damage than Metagross with 3 energy and it's much frailer, and weak to psychic. The fact that your support poke for it is a stage 2 means you will inevitably burn items to build your bench, and only a few need be in discard for Trashalanche to OHKO. Basically every Garb variant is a positive matchup without Flareon AOR in the mix imo. Considering the finals were all Garb and Gardevoir, Metagross is in a pretty good position.

Metagross needs three energy to attack as well so I don't see the issue? Against Garb you focus on Metagross. Against Gardy, same deal. But with Volc everywhere and Guzma being Guzma having a fire weakness it just such a difficult thing to work around.

Solgaleo is also kind of a dark horse metal deck that hasn't gotten much attention since Metagross came out in the same set as Rayquaza and Baby Solg. Solgaleo mixed with rainbow energy gives you a huge degree of versatility/unpredictability, you can sol burst a few of those out and tech basically any attacker you want into your deck with them. Solgaleo itself OHKOs literally every card in the game right now with a choice banded Sunsteel Strike which isn't something to sleep on.

Eh, I have some problems with Solgaleo. Specifically that in this meta it's very dangerous to use Sol Burst. You WILL put yourself behind in the prize war against a good chunk of the current meta. Solgaleo GX does struggle against single prize attackers. You can splash a Baby Solgaleo and Drampa GX to avoid burning all your energy, but it's an uphill battle. As for the Rainbow Energy... I'd be more inclined to try that if Rayquaza could recover them... but I don't really like the idea of lowering my metal count, or my DCE count for an energy that I would be able to get back.

Solgaleo can run baby solg as well as a multitude of tech attackers to deal with one prizers now. Notably babysolg's 170 base attack hits OHKO on every one prize attacker including the bulky BREAK cards like Greninja just like Sunsteel hits OHKO on every two prize in the game with band. Drampa is also an option, considering Solg decks usually run rainbow energy and ultra road lets you move your bench around a lot it's a pretty natural inclusion to boot.

Baby Solgaleo is really only a one-of card in that deck though and you don't really have to space to go crazy tech city, especially not without VS Seeker.

In a one prize game you just evolve one GX and only use it for burst, get two babies online and move between them using the GX ability. Garbotoxin is an issue but Guzma provides a work around like it does for Metagross.

Once again you can't really afford to place two Baby Solgaleo in that archtype in my opinion.

As a Gardevoir player, i feel the same way about what deck to use. It's unsettling to potentially have your tournament hopes dashed because you run into the one deck that beats yours. It's almost like it's more luck of the pairings than anything else involved with the game. As a former Yugioh player, it's not something I'm used to.

Weaknesses need some work IMO. The double damage of weakness adds a huge degree of variability that is really hard to account for. Tapu Bulu gets around this by not having any weakness, but it also has a hard time hitting large enough number to get the important one shots on decks like Metagross and Gardevoir, and as soon as you leave those Pokemon injured they are sure to scoop them with Accerola.

 

[FlavorfulPineApl]

Gardevoir is a good deck, it can't do anything against steel without adding cards. Every deck has an auto loss no matter what.

 

[CrownAxe]

Focusing on Necrozma as more then just a one of tech doesn't help Metagross with any match ups he has trouble with. Since you're big complaint is volcanion pivoting to a 180 HP Gx pokemon doesn't help because Volc easily one shots 180 also so you aren't increasing your survivabilty. You already have a strong match up against Gardy so having an attacker that discards its energy doesn't matter for the match up.

Instead you introduce weakness to the deck and give your opponent an out to what makes Metagross so effective which is its massive HP and a resistence to psychic. Metagross is a pokemon that is very hard to one shot allowing you to retreat into a fresh metagross and max potion off that damage thus denying your opponent much needed knockouts. This combined with its psychic resistence make it a very potnent answer to Garbador decks which are still very relevent in the meta even after rotation. Necrozma undermines both of these aspects of the deck by giving your opponent a target to easily one-shot and is vulnerable to psychic attackers.

But to that you might say "well i'll just focus on one or the other when the match up calls for it". But to that I say your energy won't cosistently allow it. While Geotech works with both Psychic or Metal energy, their attacks do not. Metagross needs 2 Metal to attack and Necrozma needs 3 Psychic to attack (with relevency). This means you have to split your energy between psychic and metal which leads to iinconsistency. You can't reliably focus steel energy if you need to attack with metagross and vice versa. But also sometimes you don't have 3 metagross online and will be forced to use energy in hand to get attacks off which is more unreliabilty. If you are trying to attach with Necrozma, can only geotech 2 psychic energy, and onlyare drawing metal energy then you aren't doing enough damage to be a worthy attacker.