Standard Turbo Lapras GX (Post GUR)

[Fayld]

Figure I might as well throw this list out there. I think the general concept is going to be pretty huge. Throwing a basic list out there for everyone to tear apart lol. The basic gist of the deck is that you want to be hammering your opponent for 190 as early as T1 (if second) or T2 (if first). This list is hyper item dependent and will absolutely get wrecked by a T1 Plume. But hey, no guts no glory right?

First revision: 5/5/2017

Pokemon - 8
4 Lapras GX
2 Shaymin EX
1 Manaphy EX
1 Glaceon EX

Trainers - 41
4 Professor Sycamore
2 N
2 Lysandre
2 Hex Maniac
1 Olympia
1 Pokemon Ranger
1 Professor Kukui

4 Ultra Ball
4 VS Seeker
4 Max Elixir
4 Aqua Patch
3 Trainer's Mail
2 Escape Rope
1 Field Blower

3 Choice Band

2 Brooklet Hill
1 Rough Seas

Energy - 11
11 Water Energy

 

[Dorsall]

This aggressive type of quad lapras was exactly what my immediate thought was once the aqua patch was announced (Although I looked into it a little more and it didn't look amazing). I think 1 Hex Maniac would do well (Since you have the Tapu Lele, you can get the Hex when needed. I would add another leaf blower, to get more of those fighting fury belts off for the 1 hit ko and so you can be on the upper hand of the stadium trade. I don't think that Hilltop stream would do you well because the entire idea of the deck is to get everything set up as soon as possible so receiving water pokemon over time won't do you well, I would recommend going with some other stadium, (I'll edit this when I think of it.) But not Rough Seas, most decks in the format can either 1 shot you or 2 shot you and Rough Seas doesn't protect you from 2 shots with 190 hp. Bench space will be very valuable in this deck, so manage it wisely.

 

[ChariotsOfThyer]

What about the inclusion of a Palkia EX to apply even more energy loading? Based on the cards I own I would probably drop a shay for one. Pretty new to all this so please point out to me why it would be a bad idea if it is

 

[Fayld]

This aggressive type of quad lapras was exactly what my immediate thought was once the aqua patch was announced (Although I looked into it a little more and it didn't look amazing). I think 1 Hex Maniac would do well (Since you have the Tapu Lele, you can get the Hex when needed. I would add another leaf blower, to get more of those fighting fury belts off for the 1 hit ko and so you can be on the upper hand of the stadium trade. I don't think that Hilltop stream would do you well because the entire idea of the deck is to get everything set up as soon as possible so receiving water pokemon over time won't do you well, I would recommend going with some other stadium, (I'll edit this when I think of it.) But not Rough Seas, most decks in the format can either 1 shot you or 2 shot you and Rough Seas doesn't protect you from 2 shots with 190 hp. Bench space will be very valuable in this deck, so manage it wisely.

I actually disagree pretty strongly on the Hex count, but that's why the thread right? LOL! I have a couple reasons.

First, I think it can absolutely crush Deciplume's (and Volcanion (not that it should matter) / M Ray / M Gardevoir to add a few more) opening strategy if this deck hits a T1 Hex. Not saying you want it every game, but TBH I would rather save my Lele search for later in the game rather than up front against a heavy Shaymin opening deck in an effort to put them behind early. Also, I think that because this deck only really needs to hit 3 energy T1 in order to be ready to start taking prizes, I think 1-2 Shaymin to Hex is actually a viable approach unlike other decks where this could also cripple your board development.

Second is a little more obvious. I want to make sure I can use items strategically throughout the game. I play a lot of expanded because I am a glutton for punishment. What I have consistently found is that I want 2 Hex in heavy item reliant decks like this one because you absolutely have to have access to the items to win. I will grant you that the format is waaaaay slower in standard, so maybe this is overkill, but it is a personal preference

As for the stadiums, I 100% agree and 100% had the exact same debate LOL! I couldn't think of one that I thought might be good. This isn't Quad Lapras, so the ability to keep spamming Rough Seas doesn't work (exactly like you were saying) because it isn't a denial deck. Along the lines of what you are suggesting with the bench space, I had thought pretty hard about maybe a Sky Field / Parallel combination. Dunno. It will require testing once the set drops I think!

What about the inclusion of a Palkia EX to apply even more energy loading? Based on the cards I own I would probably drop a shay for one. Pretty new to all this so please point out to me why it would be a bad idea if it is

Nothing wrong with Palkia, it just doesn't fit with what I am trying to do in this particular deck and fits more with a traditional water box deck. To be perfectly honest, if I didn't need a counter to Lurantis / Solgaleo, I wouldn't have added Glaceon EX and if Keldeo EX was still in the format / Zoroark wasn't a Stage 1, I wouldn't have Manaphy in either. Water has some pretty specific support at the moment and while Palkia is part of that support, Palkia also gets in the way of loading a Lapras up T1 which is the goal. I think that goal should be attainable 70% of the time outside of item lock with the current list.

Long story short, water box with Palkia + Lapras is already a thing and that thing is going to get a whole lot stronger with Aqua Patch. Others may disagree, but I have always thought that deck looked and played a whole lot like Volcanion (albeit slower). I kind of envision this looking a whole lot more like Expanded Turbo Darkrai.

 

[Fayld]

All that said, as I got to looking at the deck, I think I need to incorporate 2 Escape Ropes into the mix. Can't necessarily rely on that T1 Manaphy EX to do the trick all the time.

 

[Dark Espeon]

Hi Fayld,

With the number of Shaymin EX and Manaphy EX there is a risk that people will hunt down your support Pokémon instead of your attackers to draw three prizes since knocking out your active attacker will not slow the deck down at all. With this in mind consider these modifications:

- 1 Manaphy EX (it is an additional bonus and can be search with Balls and Brooklet Hill)
- 1 Shaymin EX (two are more than sufficient with Tapu Lele GX)

+ 1 Articuno AT (takes down weak pre-evolutions for two prizes and can be fueled with ease in this deck. It is also a nice one-prize attacker)
+ 1 Tapu Lele GX (nice additional attacker and less of a liability)

- 1 N (wanted the space for Lillie to combo with Tapu Lele GX)
+ 1 Lillie (nice combo with Tapu Lele GX in this deck)

- 3 Trainer's Mail (not needed with all the draw and recall that Garbodor and Trevenant will be rather good in the new meta)
+ 1 Brooklet Hill (nice search stadium that allows you to devote your Ultra balls to Shaymin and Tapu Lele GX)
+ 1 Escape Rope (nice switching and disruption card)
+ 1 Pokémon Ranger (to handle Jolteon EX or attack a second time with a dying Lapras GX) or +1 Professor Kukui (allows you to ohko HP 210 Pokémon or HP 180 Pokémon without Choice Band)

I agree with the Hex Maniac count in this deck since it is not too reliant on abilities and it needs a way to shut down item lock.

Hope this provides some initial assistance.

 

[Fayld]

Hi Fayld,

With the number of Shaymin EX and Manaphy EX there is a risk that people will hunt down your support Pokémon instead of your attackers to draw three prizes since knocking out your active attacker will not slow the deck down at all. With this in mind consider these modifications:

- 1 Manaphy EX (it is an additional bonus and can be search with Balls and Brooklet Hill)
- 1 Shaymin EX (two are more than sufficient with Tapu Lele GX)

+ 1 Articuno AT (takes down weak pre-evolutions for two prizes and can be fueled with ease in this deck. It is also a nice one-prize attacker)
+ 1 Tapu Lele GX (nice additional attacker and less of a liability)

- 1 N (wanted the space for Lillie to combo with Tapu Lele GX)
+ 1 Lillie (nice combo with Tapu Lele GX in this deck)

- 3 Trainer's Mail (not needed with all the draw and recall that Garbodor and Trevenant will be rather good in the new meta)
+ 1 Brooklet Hill (nice search stadium that allows you to devote your Ultra balls to Shaymin and Tapu Lele GX)
+ 1 Escape Rope (nice switching and disruption card)
+ 1 Pokémon Ranger (to handle Jolteon EX or attack a second time with a dying Lapras GX) or +1 Professor Kukui (allows you to ohko HP 210 Pokémon or HP 180 Pokémon without Choice Band)

I agree with the Hex Maniac count in this deck since it is not too reliant on abilities and it needs a way to shut down item lock.

Hope this provides some initial assistance.

They are definitely liabilities, but that's the price of doing business if you want a T1 190 damage attack consistently. It isn't like all 3 Shaymin will get played down in almost any game anyway. I get what you are saying about sniping them via Lysandre, Ropes, etc., but it kind of is what it is. The goal is to get 1 Lapras ready to roll before my opponent can get anything up and running to counter. Even if they snipe a Shaymin, that just resets the Lapras attack for a probable return KO. Basically, what I am getting at is that the whole point of the deck is to try to overwhelm ASAP similar to how a M Ray deck overwhelms ASAP. There are TONS of liabilities in that deck (in fact that is one of the biggest weaknesses), but the trade off is an insanely powerful first strike ability to take out an opponent as early as T1 (going second) or T2 (going first).

Brooklet Hill = Hilltop Stream on my list. Not super sure when it switched names. Maybe I just got the wrong name too, but I pulled it from the original translations list rather than the latest "full list revealed" news story lol! I am still not super pumped about including this stadium in this list, but I also didn't find anything i liked better.

Lele to Lillie could be a great combination for this deck given how hard it is likely to burn cards out of hand pretty fast. I have played with Lillie pretty extensively. What I have found with my personal play style is that I like the card, but don't love the card even when I hit it T1 with a heavy item playing deck. I typically burn cards pretty hard, so Sycamore still tends to be my go to even when the amount of cards I would return is 7 using Lillie or Sycamore. Mainly I want Lillie in my discard for late game use in that scenario. Dunno, but I honestly prefer to thin my deck ASAP and Sycamore + Ultra Balls is the most efficient way to do that in Standard (Acro Bike is great as well, but much more situational). I am also hoping to not need Lele up front very often. The most effective uses of Jirachi EX that I see in expanded (beyond the obvious "get Archie's / Maxie's") tend to be the late game "get me supporter X" uses that either turn a game or end the game. While Lele isn't the liability Jirachi is, it is still a bench sitter that I don't want to attack with getting in the way of already tight bench space. The list as it stands isn't running Sky Field (I am really considering it hard though) and given how many support pokemon I assume I will need (this is based on how many are typically played in expanded turbo darkrai), the later I can use Lele, the better. Maybe that will prove incorrect and the deck will simply play better with an early Lele. I tend to not think so though and, in fact, think that Lele might be a luxury rather than a necessity in this list.

That is a long way of saying "I think that's a great suggestion for the deck and anyone reading this should probably consider it, but I prefer the extra N" LOL!!!!!

I think Kukui could be a very good addition though. It is one I think I need to play around with. The last thing this deck can afford is a slow start which is literally my only concern with that card

The deck needs Escape Rope for sure. Probably in a 2 count in all honesty.

I hate Articuno as a card in general. I have played a good amount of Archie's Blastoise and the times I have found that card useful are far outclassed by the times I wish I had an extra of literally anything else in the deck and I draw into Articuno. Some people love the card and it could prove a quality addition in this deck for those who choose to run it. I am definitely not discounting it as an idea. I just personally think there are other cards I would rather play.

Pokemon Ranger. This is another card I will need to play around with. Right now, the list is definitely in the "keep it simple stupid" phase since I don't have the cards to actually test anything yet and Ranger has the added advantage of allowing the deck to string together attacks without requiring a retreat / switch. I definitely see the value. As with Kukui (and to a lesser extent Lillie), I think this is a "test and see" card.

 

[Fayld]

Revisiting this to give my latest list. I have gotten to play this a bit and have a few observations. I don't have a lot of games with it ATM, but it has already proven fast and powerful in the games I played.

Here is the revised list. I don't currently have Lele, so for now it isn't listed.

Pokemon - 8
4 Lapras GX
2 Shaymin EX
1 Manaphy EX
1 Glaceon EX

Trainers - 41
4 Professor Sycamore
2 N
2 Lysandre
2 Hex Maniac
1 Olympia
1 Pokemon Ranger
1 Professor Kukui

4 Ultra Ball
4 VS Seeker
4 Max Elixir
4 Aqua Patch
3 Trainer's Mail
2 Escape Rope
1 Field Blower

3 Choice Band

2 Brooklet Hill
1 Rough Seas

Energy - 11
11 Water Energy

Originally, I was thinking Sky Field would be good due to bench space limitations. It became apparent very quickly that was the wrong choice. The list I am playing very rarely got to 5 pokemon benched due to general lack of necessity. By contrast, Brooklet Hill was surprisingly effective as a quick alternate ball + stadium denial. Rough Seas is alright. TBH, the stadiums are pretty meh for this deck.

Glaceon EX has already proven valuable. I played two games against GUR Trevenant + Vileplume and Glaceon proved invaluable due to lack of weakness + walling against a dangerous match up. I don't think Glaceon is going to help against Deciplume, but it is going to be *the* counter for a deck like Trashalanche Garbodor.

Choice Band vs. Fighting Fury Belt. I honestly think this pretty clearly falls in favor of choice band. There were a number of times in the games I played where the math doesn't add up for an OHKO with a FFB where it does with a Choice Band. While an extra 40 HP to get up to 230 can help, the fact that field blower is out there turns the decision (at least for me) pretty clearly to Choice Band because while it is possible to lose both, Choice Band at least stacks an extra 20 damage for the 1+ turns I get to use it and adds a lot more pressure on my opponent.

Energy acceleration. If it has access to items, this deck is FAST. Because all of the attackers in the deck only require 3 energy, it is very easy to get them set up and ready to blow things up. I think this is probably the second fastest OHKO deck in the format behind M Ray. Aqua Patch is amazing in this deck and provides a level of energy acceleration that is going to be very hard for almost any other deck to match. Max Elixir does Max Elixir things. It hits most times in this deck though and between the two types of acceleration, this deck can snowball pretty quickly. Nothing earth shattering here, but I think Aqua Patch might stack the deck for water decks in a post Forest of Giant Plants world.

Olympia, Kukui, Ranger. All three have won games in a very small sample. Kukui might be worth a 2 count in this deck TBH. It allows for OHKO math that isn't possible without it.

I am going to update the main post with a list once I have Lele available. I think that card will be pretty sick in this deck as well given the variety of supporters available.

 

[Auouch]

Just a couple of questions for the op: 1) what did you end up replacing the shaymins, rough seas and vs seekers for for the new rotation? 2) how are your match ups? ( been looking to make a water deck based on lapras gx)

 

[Fayld]

Pokemon - 9
4 Lapras GX
3 Tapu Lele GX
1 Manaphy EX
1 Glaceon EX

Trainers - 38
4 Professor Sycamore
4 N
4 Guzma
1 Lillie
1 Sophocles

4 Ultra Ball
4 Max Elixir
4 Aqua Patch
2 Escape Rope
2 Field Blower

4 Choice Band

2 Brooklet Hill
2 Parallel City

Energy - 13
13 Water Energy

To be perfectly honest, I haven't really messed with this much since Tapu Bulu came out because the grass weakness is straight up too much for this deck to overcome. Beyond that issue though, there is still the issue of the deck just flat out not hitting hard enough in this meta. Yes it is still exceptionally fast and that can get you out in front, but unfortunately your opponents just flat out catch up too easily and there isn't a finisher in Lapras waterbox like there is with Ho-Oh/Salazzle and there isn't any real disruption within the deck beyond dropping Parallel down which negatively impacts your damage output, but can really hinder their ability to set up and ultimately that is about the only way you are going to win.

All that said, here is my stab at a rework in today's standard meta. I don't think it works and I wouldn't recommend anyone playing it / investing the money to build it. The gist of it is to work in as many board state disruption cards as possible to force your opponent down to unfortunate pokemon in the active / limited to what they can have on the bench. Ultimately, the deck is forced to 2 shot though and that isn't great.

This is where I think the match ups sit, but I haven't tested them.

Golisopod variants (pick one) 30/70 (Glaceon *can* work well here if you parallel them and they bump their Lele out)
BuluVolt 20/80 (I want to put this lower, but there is always the chance they don't set up and you do)
Greninja 30/70 (mainly because Greninja still does Greninja things)
Ho-Oh / Salazzle 60/40 (Ho-Oh isn't weak, so you need to hit the choice band + 3 energy T1 which is doable)
Metagross 40/60 (Only because your deck will set up in almost all circumstances and their deck will brick + if you Parallel you might be able to stick them with only evolution pokemon on their board and Glaceon can make life difficult)
Volcanion (traditional non-Salazzle) 70-30 (Could be higher because they typically only tech one copy of Ho-Oh in this version...it also doesn't see a ton of play)
Gardevoir 30/70 (You don't 1 shot them, they 1 shot you. Glaceon might work out here as well with Parallel...sensing a theme yet?)
Pikazone 40/60 (It might be better or worse, I am just not sure. The good thing is that you 1 shot everything they have. The bad thing is that they do the same right back and accelerate energy better)
Rainbow Road 50/50 (this is a match up where Parallel can win you games, but you are still battling 1 prize attacker vs. 2 prize attacker)
Xerneas BREAK 50/50 (another match up where Parallel + Glaceon can win you games)
Ninetales 30/70 (without easy access to Kukui, you don't 1 shot them and they 1 shot you. Parallel to Glaceon matters a lot less here as well because they can damage change + hit your bench for 50)
Decitales 20/80 (Was a bad match up when you had access to all your tools. It is a worse match up now)
Spread decks 50/50 (I think this is a scenario where you 1 shot everything quickly enough that they won't be able to keep up and you can keep your ability pokemon off the board fairly easily and still maintain your ability to switch attackers efficiently. I could be completely wrong with this one though)
Darkrai 70/30 (I don't think you will see any of them, but if you do your deck is just flat out faster and more consistent)