Unlimited VS Modified

After reading the Thread, what is the best Format?


  • Total voters
    9

Old School Player

Unlimited Specialist
Member
Am I the only person in this site that prefers Unlimited over Modified?
I hope not. I personally think that Unlimited (as name suggests) is built not to have limits in players' immagination;).
While Modified is the format of tournaments (because new cards = low price = more people can play:p), Unlimited is the format of dreams, the only place where the utopia of the :shy:unbeatable deck:shy: can become reality. :D:D:D
Even if the cost of the cards can become prohibitive for real tournaments we can play Unlimited in a fun and regular way: Apprentice. :cool:
Unlimited-lovers of all world, unite! Let's use the Apprentice tool!:)
I'm gonna edit Unlimited decks in the deck garage that will make you wish for more Unlimited Competitions, meanwhile please tell me whether you prefer Unlimited or Modified in the poll, and write down why.
That is going to make my and your ideas clear.
 
Hmmmm...personally, i think that Modified is better (nothing great, the only problem is that i've only got Modified Format cards...:p)
 
I play unlimited.
All my decks are in unlimited.
Unlimited is better, because older cards like DR and SS!
 
Well I have views for and against both formats. This is my (long) perspective:

Unlimited:
I started playing from NeoGen onwards yet started collecting since Baseset. I really used to enjoy Unlimited MUCH more than Modified, and now days, I still do. The fact that "almost" any deck (or combo with potential) could be played and have SOME form of success. This was mainly due to the vast range of drawing/searching trainers. Oak, Elm, Comp search, Item Finder, all made these decks possible. I tried a variety of deck ideas and combos and most of them went reasonably well, even though they werent too good in theory. With the amount of 'uber searching' you could do to get the cards you wanted just made anything playable which really added to the variety at our league. Unlimited was really fun because of this as there was a new deck each week and everyone had a different deck. This is one thing that Modified now lacks extremely. The fact that there is NO trainers that can draw cards which ARENT supporters is simply ridiculous. Why is it? Because we are stuck with TV Reporter, etc where we can draw like 3 cards per turn. Unlimited didnt have this, you could get what you wanted, when you wanted, from where you wanted, numerous times a turn. The 1 turn supporter rule cancels this out and the luck-factor of Modified went through the roof. Due to this 'lack of draw' the game is basically a Casino, where whoever gets the best draw wins, or whoever gets set up 1st. This is a MAJOR problem for Modified and numerous good players have left the game because of it. People say that Pidgeot and Magcargo should be banned because they're 'cheating'. Noone who played Unlimited would EVER say that. Those 2 cards are what balances the game and without them the game would be in an even worse position to where it is now...

However, with everything good there is something bad. Cards like SER, ER, Gust of Wind, Slowking, Sneasel, all made the game bad in its time. Of course everyone used those trainers in a deck since they were basic staple cards. How can you win if your opponent takes away your energy? You simply take away their energy. These led to an inbalance with the game however and 'practically' anything with 3+ energy cost was unplayable due to SER/ER. Gust also proved a problem. There was almost no hiding to where you were, bench or active. Cards like Chaos Gym and Slowking made Gust less effective but still caused a problem. With the release of new sets each time there are more and more possible combinations for Unlimited. However, it has now come to the point that there are only a few viable decks where others simply lose because of it. Decks like Blastoise/Suicune ex, Wiggly ex/Slowking/Sneasel, Aerojask, etc. They simply dominate because they are so effective. Oh and another ridiculous card was Erika's Jigglypuff... Umm, DCE=50 T1... broken. It ended alot of games T1/T2.

Modified:
Well, lets start by thinking about the good things about Modified. Atm, nothing immediately comes to mind as fast as Unlimited. A nice factor of the game is the rotation of sets. This can be good and this can be bad too. There have been times where we have lost our beloved cards which we desperately need due to the rotation. Good things about the rotation though. It doesnt allow for an infinate amount of combos since it restricts the amount of cards playable, eliminating everything that was good to bring in something new. It doesnt allow the full abuse of archetype combos over and over with extra boosts from new sets released. That is that main advantage of Modified.

There is though a LARGE amount of bad things about Modified. I'll continue on with the rotation. Bad things, like I said above, is the loss of good cards. When there is a card which is used so much because it allows so much benefits to any deck. These cards are usually the cards which holds the game together, but in the end, alot of people end up hating them because they're in every deck. Dunsparce (SS) was a major loss for the game. Not only could it bench fill but it could attack and stall in one. Nothing will ever replace it, yet the new Tauros and Luvdisc come close, but nothing near as good. Pidgeot and Magcargo are another thing. Everyone hates them because everyone uses them. Ask yourself, Why does everyone use them? I can imagine a stack of people saying stupid answers to that so i'll state the 'main' reason. The lack of draw due to the dependance on Supporters means there is a lack of draw and lack of getting what you want, when you need it. Unlimited NEVER had this problem, like I explained above. How else can we win if we dont have the right cards to win? Well we look for cards which can get us what we want. Pidgeot and Magcargo are a prime example of this, and after their rotation you will be seeing Porygon2 in every 2nd deck and that's a fact. People play cards to get what they want as quick as possible. The lack of draw also heavily increases the luck factor of the game. Like I said above, the game is now a Casino, where whoever has the most luck wins. The best starting hand compared to the worst will win if there is no way to get what you need. When you're stuck with a TV reporter which draws you 3 crappy cards and you cant play anything else, then you lose.

The thing that doesnt surprise me is that 85% of players around the world do NOT see this problem. Why dont they see it? Because they havent played Unlimited. You guys (as in 90% of members on this forum) are relatively new to the game, started playing the game from RS-on. You never experienced how easy it was to get what you wanted when you wanted, as many times as you want. This is what makes the game NOT fun. I see good players who Deserve to win because they are more skillful, but they dont because they lose due to hax luck. No deck in Modified is "Guaranteed" a win anymore, no matter how well it is built, due to Supporter dependance. We are practically FORCED to play Pidgeot and Magcargo to get which cards we need to win. It's sad and it makes alot of good players around the world angry.

I seriously hate playing Modified now, mainly due to the fact that it Isnt as fun as it USED to be. I feel like i'm playing for the sake of it, and not for fun anymore, mainly that I simply cannot let go of Pokemon and if I did then I would feel empty inside. Eventually this time will come and when it does I dont want it to be in a place where Modified looks like it does, I want the game to be skillful, fair and fun at the same time. Does anyone feel the same way as I do here?

Conclusion:
The game is getting worse and worse as newer sets are released. The game DESPERATELY needs drawing cards which are NOT supporters. This will make a stack of decks and combos much more playable and the reduce on heavy archetype playing throughout the entire world. Even if Bill and Prof Elm were re-printed then the game would be better, but noone sees that really and it's disappointing, however, I dont blame anyone since they havent experienced Unlimited and how the game 'should' be.

So my final verdict is that I simply prefer Unlimited over Modified for the reasons stated above. Unlimited has problems, but Modified has alot more problems, which, IMO, make it worse.

(Lol, did anyone actually read all of that? I've basically summed up the entire Unlimited and Modified formats in terms of practibility and fun.)
 
About the closest non-supporter alternative to Bill that exists is PokéNav. That's not very good.

Having played the game ever since Fossil, I found that I highly enjoyed Unlimited. Cards like Computer Search, Professor Oak, Professor Elm, Nightly Garbage Run, and Pokémon Trader all seemed to make the game much more balanced by reducing lame, 1st or 2nd turn losses.

Right now, the closest thing that we have to Computer Search (other than Pidgeot or Magcargo of course), is Holon Transceiver. I've found playing Holon Power decks to be very fun because I almost never lose on the first few turns; I can usually get set up very quickly and sometimes even have 1 or 2 Stage II lines complete by turn 2 or 3. Holon Transceiver is great because it effectively adds copies of other Holon Supporters to the deck.
Still, the biggest problem is that even with Professor Oak's Research, a 5-card hand is not enough to help prevent against turn 1 or 2 losses.

Much like what Abhorsen said, the new LM Magby resembles Erika's Jigglypuff in many ways; if there is a Full Flame in play, there is a 50% chance that they will do 50 damage. Many basics have at most 50 HP. Only some of the basic forms of stage I lines and pure basic lines ever seem to have more than 50 HP. It seems the best way to prevent these kind of losses is to run fossils (preferably Root Fossils) in decks. Fossils can't be affected by Special Conditions, and don't count as prizes.

The other thing I don't like about Modified is that it renders old cards useless. Nobody ever wants to trade or buy them (other than for collecting) because they aren't tournament legal. Thus, we have to spend huge amounts of money to keep in the game. And not all of us have that kind of money- even in the United States (where I live).

I've seen some comprehensive articles regarding making older card sets playable. There was a pretty good one at the PokéGym. It is pretty interesting:

http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29951
 
I couldn't say that myself! Well done, Aborshen! I see it the way you do (except that I actually only play with my friends' cards or proxies:D) and yes, I have read it all.
I wish many other people read this, though.
I have come up with a new kind of deck, so please come and see it on deck garage if you have some spare time. ;)
 
well,
1st) docrobot, seems like you are not the only long-posting mod :D,  I didn't have time to read this all and I had a  deja-vu feeling, cause this is all said before in numerous threads

2nd) I played unlimited, and i know how good bill was, I used to play bill and it was just... good, I was able to use it 4 times in a row. I don't think we lack drawing cards, I think it's good that we can only draw a max of 3 extra cards without losing your whole hand each turn, cause this gives big, complicated strategies no chance.
The thing i like the most is the fact that they removed those unfair cards, like SER and GOW, I hated to play against 1, when you remove 2 energies, it totally takes away all your chances of attacking during your next turn, which was sooo unfair. And a forced switch without you choosing makes a steelix ex from salamance. The modified format takes away the brokenness of all the old cards. Aldo I miss my riptide deck (4 gold, 4 SER, 4 bill, ...)
 
cute-mew said:
well,
1st) docrobot, seems like you are not the only long-posting mod :D, I didn't have time to read this all and I had a deja-vu feeling, cause this is all said before in numerous threads
Yup, when the times comes I post LONG posts. I like to express my opinion and I can only do that by covering every angle of what problems fall where. And yes, you dont technically have to read all of what I said because i've said it a million times already, in the Bill thread for one. I just dont understand how people can say Modified is better... it isnt. And it's the fact that everyone is new to the game that noone sees the problems with Modified.

And, wow, I didnt even know that thread existed no Pokegym DocRobot (mainly cause I just dont go there). But it does bring up valid points about the faults with Unlimited, such as Slowking.

It's nice to see that my extra long 2x A4 page post was actually read, lol. I thought the length would get people to avoid it. I know that my view is only a specific view, but it is shared by alot of players around the world. How else can we express our anger over the poor-ness of Modified? Well we cant. Nintendo just doesnt listen and keeps on making the same mistakes over and over. We NEED some of the older non-supporter-drawing-trainer cards back otherwise the game is going to eventually pass the event horizon. If it does, then it will be the ultimate downfall for the TCG, yet just the popularity alone of it will keep people playing even though most people dont care about how balanced a game is. I prefer games to be fair, where skill is the ultimate factor, but when luck is 90% of the game it simply makes any n00b good, which "shouldnt" happen.

Anyway, enough of my rambling on. I could right a thesis on this topic, lol. It would be nice to see this thread being posted in more.
 
Abhorsen said:
Nintendo just doesnt listen and keeps on making the same mistakes over and over.
Hopefully some Japanese players on forums that Nintendo JP reads share your views.. that way, we might get some progress...

I'm a new player myself - I started at the end of 2004, just before RG came out. I have seen how ER, SER and Gust destroy the game, though... for a while, at school we played Unlimited. One of my friends pulled out Entei ex with DCE and caned everything in sight... >_> It would be great if POP (or whoever runs this) made the format Unlimited, but with certain cards like Gust, ER, SER, Slowking, and other broken cards that have popped up banned - Unlimited with a long ban list, I guess. That would be very interesting, IMO..
 
RE:   Unlimited VS Modified

Abhorsen said:
read it yourself, it's long :D(again:D)
well, I'm not saying modified is better, I too like 4 bills, 4 elms and a lot of other things, and riptide was just great, but playing unlimited is just too extreme, the lack of drawing cards is indeed a big problem, and especially the choosing between searching or drawing has left me with heartbreaking decisions. But the brokenness of the old cards combined with the new cards is just too extreme  (yeah, I like that word), I know, I play unlimited league and I played in unlimited tournaments, and if you run into aerojask or barrier, you're dead, no change of winning. This is why I prefer modified, because of the less-broken play
 
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