Discussion Versatility of Tate and Liza

Rindon

Rindon

Aspiring Trainer
Member
just finished the pre-release and I was quite surprised by the versatility of this supporter. Shuffle and draw 5 is obviously in the short end compared to Cynthia (6cards). However in a format where float stone will be gone...the ability to either draw or switch could come in very handy.

Next great Pokémon ability “you may choose one or both options for supporter cards”
 
I'm on the opposite side honestly. Switching or having free retreat is nice, but I wouldn't do it for your supporter for the turn when you could do something more impactful like switching something to the active and getting a knockout (Guzma) or refreshing your hand to 6 (Cynthia). I guess to have both these kinds of effects on one card is nice and might save deck space, but in this format we have Tapu Lele-GX who is already searchable herself and searches for whatever supporter you want the turn you need it, so I don't think the versatility of Tate & Liza is necessary. I just think that both the effects of this supporter are slightly too underwhelming and other supporters, even though they only had one of those kinds of effects, would just be better. I don't recall Giovanni's Scheme seeing any play when it was around even with the holy VS Seeker + Sycamore engine was in effect (but correct me if I'm wrong).
 
This card suffers from Giovanni's Scheme Syndrome. The card would be freaking dope if you had both effects (and it's entirely possible that TPCi prints a card that achieves this like in Kukui) and I'd much rather search for Cynthia or Guzma if I wanted to do either. I could see players choosing to utilize no more than one copy as a "fifth" Cynthia or "fifth" Guzma, but it should be understood that the card is otherwise just not enough to make an impact.

In the early stages of next format, this card could very well see a little bit of popularity as players scramble to find the "staple" Supporter lineup for their decks. I think it'll die off tho. I wouldn't invest in high-rarity forms of Tate and Liza.
 
It's the second best draw option after rotation tied with copycat but it's a bit more consistent. It's also going to exist when float stone wont exist so it's pretty good and underappreciated at the moment
 
I think it will be a solid 1-2 of in every deck, especially in decks with Pokemon that have a high retreat cost. Guzma and Cynthia are better but having an extra switch can come up clutch at times. In the pre-release I used it more for its switch effect than the draw due to having Metagross out.
 
Mega Mewthree... said:
Hey there. Which is better?

Hala
Tate and Liza
Judge
Copycat

Please advise.
Click to expand...
I believe Tate and Liza and copycat to be in a better class than the other two. But as @CrownAxe pointed out, it really depends on deck. Judge will come in handy for Shiftry Gx and Hala could be very good but only for decks using gx move early on.
 
Mega Mewthree... said:
Hey there. Which is better?

Hala
Tate and Liza
Judge
Copycat

Please advise.
Click to expand...
Mega Mewthree... said:
What about Cynthia??
Click to expand...
Well yeah, Cynthia is better than all of those options :p

I know that CrownAxe has said that they're all good in specific scenarios which I agree on and should be ran with Cynthia, but none of the 4 cards listed shouldn't ever "out-prioritize" Cynthia.

If we were talking about which out of the 4 is better in general, I'd say Copycat, but I'd pick Judge if we were playing Zoroark or Copycat if we were playing against Zoroark.
 
After looking at more Japanese deck lists post rotation (just to see lists that have actually been playtested and not just theory crafted), a 1 of Tate & Liza seems to be something that pops up a lot.

I think considering a Tate & Liza for a deck is a good thing when you are playing a deck that doesn't want things in the discard, in which case you would replace a count of Sightseer for Tate & Liza. That gives you 5 shuffle draw supporters and less discard so you can preserve more resources.

I was super against Tate & Liza at first, but given our draw supporter options post rotation, 1 copy of them is actually not a bad idea.
 
One of my friend really loves this card and told me to buy some instead of buying Cynthia.
I'm currently running a Naganadel GX deck and still haven't bought any Cynthia or Guzma yet.
 
j2y8n2x said:
One of my friend really loves this card and told me to buy some instead of buying Cynthia.
I'm currently running a Naganadel GX deck and still haven't bought any Cynthia or Guzma yet.
Click to expand...

I have been playing Naganadel as well and hose cards have been crucial.
 
Tate and liza isn't the greatest but we are still forced to play it after rotation otherwise the consistency of our decks will drop.
 
I still can't think of playing it. I think that after rotation, I will run Altar of the Lune for Psychic decks and Switch for the rest.
 
I have been using tate and liza for draw support and switch to great effect. Works well in beast box where stakataka has 3 retreat.
 
I like the thought behind Tate and Liza. In a format where Sycamore, N, and Float Stone will be gone, it is another form of card draw and a means of switching that lets you avoid cluttering the deck with Switch for pivoting.

I can see this being at least a 2 or 3-of easily for the versatility.

Holden Sheeks said:
I'm on the opposite side honestly. Switching or having free retreat is nice, but I wouldn't do it for your supporter for the turn when you could do something more impactful like switching something to the active and getting a knockout (Guzma) or refreshing your hand to 6 (Cynthia). I guess to have both these kinds of effects on one card is nice and might save deck space, but in this format we have Tapu Lele-GX who is already searchable herself and searches for whatever supporter you want the turn you need it, so I don't think the versatility of Tate & Liza is necessary. I just think that both the effects of this supporter are slightly too underwhelming and other supporters, even though they only had one of those kinds of effects, would just be better. I don't recall Giovanni's Scheme seeing any play when it was around even with the holy VS Seeker + Sycamore engine was in effect (but correct me if I'm wrong).
Click to expand...

You gotta remember that Giovanni's Scheme was a simple draw and not a shuffle and draw. +20 doesn't do much for the game unless you can stack buffs like Buzzwole, and with how Scheme's draw works, it would be either a dead card or a Hau with worse restrictions just about.
 
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