Very Old Player Looking to Get Back into Game

[Lenny]

Hi all,

I have not played in years. I am currently a big player in Magic: the Gathering but my main format in that game has gone downhill since the last ban announcement and I am looking to get competitive in another TCG so I can always have more than one option.

The last time I played was with Mightyena from Platinum, I don't even remember how long ago that was. The deck was cheap, fast, and effective. I also played Palkia Lv. X way back when. Of course, I haven't a clue where to start now.

So I have a few questions to start:
1) What is the average price of a Tier 1-2 deck in Standard right now?
2) How viable are lower Tiers vs. higher Tiers?
3) To find a deck that fits me and my playstyle, what questions should I be asking myself? I ask this coming from Magic where there are certain archetypes (aggro, control, midrange, combo). Is there anything like this with Pokemon nowadays?
4) Are there any helpful YouTube videos, articles, or other links that could help me dive into a totally unknown meta and re-learn the game, somewhat from scratch? Also something to help me learn about staple cards and value of current booster packs?

And lastly, feel free to mention anything you may think is helpful to me because I don't entirely know the right questions to be asking at the moment. Thanks a lot and I'll be checking back here frequently!

 

[GreenPariah]

Hi all,

I have not played in years. I am currently a big player in Magic: the Gathering but my main format in that game has gone downhill since the last ban announcement and I am looking to get competitive in another TCG so I can always have more than one option.

The last time I played was with Mightyena from Platinum, I don't even remember how long ago that was. The deck was cheap, fast, and effective. I also played Palkia Lv. X way back when. Of course, I haven't a clue where to start now.

So I have a few questions to start:
1) What is the average price of a Tier 1-2 deck in Standard right now?
2) How viable are lower Tiers vs. higher Tiers?
3) To find a deck that fits me and my playstyle, what questions should I be asking myself? I ask this coming from Magic where there are certain archetypes (aggro, control, midrange, combo). Is there anything like this with Pokemon nowadays?
4) Are there any helpful YouTube videos, articles, or other links that could help me dive into a totally unknown meta and re-learn the game, somewhat from scratch? Also something to help me learn about staple cards and value of current booster packs?

And lastly, feel free to mention anything you may think is helpful to me because I don't entirely know the right questions to be asking at the moment. Thanks a lot and I'll be checking back here frequently!

welcome back to pokemon btw! Things have changed since you last played, and there has been quite the power creep as of the last two - four years.

Well, to start i'll compare a few of the decks in our standard/expanded formats to decks in magic.

In pokemon most decks run some sort of control, whether it be prize denial, energy denial, or effecting your opponents hand size.
One of the biggest decks that do this now is Sableye DEX / Garbodor BKP / Puzzle Of Time. This deck is Expanded legal only, and it is a total pain to play against. It shuts down your opponents abilities, while effectively discarding your opponents energy and deck at the same time.
As for a standard legal control/aggro deck, sounds wierd, but it works, is Manectric EX / Seismitoad EX / Bats PHF. This deck works by primarily using Seismitoad to item lock your opponent using quaking punch, this attack is weak in comparison to other attacks damage wise. So you supplement that damage with the use of the heavy BATS line, while abusing prize denial cards like AZ and Super Scoop Up to keep your toads streaming. You'll also play Head Ringers to lock out your opponents tools on their EX pokemon and boosting the damage output by Manectric EX.

Now, Aggro. There are quite a few different options for Straight quick clean aggro decks in both Standard and Expanded. Some may have more combos to get going, and others are quite simple to play. I won't go into detail about each one, but rather list the aggro type decks I know and let you do some research too.
Standard Legal:
Garchomp Variants
Machamp EX / Ariados
Vespiquen and Friends
Palkia EX / M Gyrados EX
Raikou BKT / Magnezone BKT
Lugia EX AOR / Fairies
M Manectric EX Variants

Expanded Legal:
Emboar BLW Variants
Eelektrik NVI Variants
KlingKlang BLW Variants
Big Basics
Blastoise BCR / Keldeo
and many many more.

These are just a few of the decks around, if you want to know more about any of these, let me know, and I will get back to you!

 

[Lenny]

Been watching some deck techs based on what you've posted here, and Garchomp and Palkia EX / M Gyarados EX seem to be the most appealing to my playstyle. If you don't mind elaborating on them, that would be great.

For the Garchomp builds, I saw Shaymin-EX was a must but not necessarily for the Palkia EX deck. What's your take on this and the usability of Shaymin?

Second, I saw the Palkia EX / M Gyarados EX builds also run Manaphy, Golduck break, and Regice. Are these pretty standard for the deck or was the deck tech I watched different than usual?

Thanks for your insight and help so far!

 

[bbninjas]

So I have a few questions to start:
1) What is the average price of a Tier 1-2 deck in Standard right now?

Many decks cost around $100, primarily because the staple Shaymin-EX that most decks require two copies of costs about $40. Night March and Vespiquen would have to be your cheapest variants floating around excluding the Shaymin requirements.

2) How viable are lower Tiers vs. higher Tiers?

The meta is pretty balanced right now, so lower tiers can do well against higher tiers with the right players. However, higher tiers are generally known to be more solid against more matchups, which is why they are a higher tier.

4) Are there any helpful YouTube videos, articles, or other links that could help me dive into a totally unknown meta and re-learn the game, somewhat from scratch? Also something to help me learn about staple cards and value of current booster packs?

The front page now has a bucketload of articles that you can look at. Most are Premium, but there are some great free ones, such as this one in particular, which gave a nice view into the current meta, although is a month old. I'd suggest comparing top decks in the Metagame Deck Discussion or those proven at Regionals.

Oh, by the way, you may like to grab a copy of the Mewtwo vs Darkrai Battle Arena Decks, as it provides you with many staples that you'd want to obtain otherwise, although some cards in those decks can only be used in Expanded format, such as Mewtwo and Darkrai itself, and N.

For the Garchomp builds, I saw Shaymin-EX was a must but not necessarily for the Palkia EX deck. What's your take on this and the usability of Shaymin?

Shaymin-EX should be used in all decks if you have one available, either in one copy or two. Shaymin is more important in decks that require quick setting up or lots of resources to set up, such as Garchomp or Night March. Decks that are a bit slower such as Palkia-EX can usually go without Shaymin, although having a single copy is nice for backup in the case you go into dead draw.

Second, I saw the Palkia EX / M Gyarados EX builds also run Manaphy, Golduck break, and Regice. Are these pretty standard for the deck or was the deck tech I watched different than usual?

Eh, not really. Palkia-EX variants will generally like a few more techs than other varients as it provides a bit more versatility. I wouldn't include Golduck BREAK in the deck, however, as it takes up quite a bit of space and will mess up your consistency with the three-Pokemon line. Manaphy is considered a support Pokemon, so would be included solely for its free retreat Ability, while Regice is a great non-EX attacker that would appreciate inclusion in most [W] decks.

 

[Phototoxin]

Manaphy is considered a support Pokemon, so would be included solely for its free retreat Ability, while Regice is a great non-EX attacker that would appreciate inclusion in most [W] decks.

I've been testing this deck and have to echo the sentiments - Manaphy you just want camped on your bench providing free retreats to pull the wounded back while Regice is a nice lock to counter EXs.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Both @GreenPariah and @bbninjas made some great points, and I'd like to also weigh-in on a couple of your questions.

Your point 3:
Consider start looking at all the card scans (on PokéBeach main page, hover your mouse pointer over the TCG button, and you can then select the card sets you wish to view) from each viable set in the Standard and/or Expanded format. As you find particular Pokémon cards that interest you, note those, and then see if there might be any deck examples featuring those particular Pokémon in the Deck Garage Forum. Even if you don't, don't be discouraged. "Rouge" decks can also be quite competitive and do well at tournaments. View those deck examples and start to build your version of that deck. If you wish, you can post your deck version(s) and the PokéBeach community can offer some comments/suggestions for improvement thereafter. Tweak your deck(s) accordingly.

At this point, build and play-test your deck(s) online at the free Pokémon TCG website. When you have decided upon your "final" version of your deck(s), then shop around for the actual cards you need.

Like MTG, you'll find different types of decks too, ranging from aggressive attacking, control, disruption, mill, etc.

Your point 4:
Relative to deck staples, again checkout the decks in the Deck Garage Forum and you'll find certain "core," Trainer staples (Standard format) like used in a wide variety of decks:

AZ - used to recover wounded or "stuck" active Pokémon, and/or recover and reuse benched Shaymin EX
Judge - card-drawing Supporter that also disrupts both players' hand
Lysandre - bring opponent's benched Pokémon into active position
Professor Birch's Observations - card-drawing Supporter
Professor Sycamore - card-drawing Supporter
Ultra Ball - Pokémon search
VS Seeker - retrieves Supporter from discard pile
​

Relative to Shaymin EX:
I too play 2 different Garchomp decks and in both cases (as well as all of my other competitive decks), I run only 1 Shaymin EX. Trust me - I was probably THE last holdout in my area not running Shaymin EX for a long time. I tried many different, alternate ways to compensate for card-drawing capability; but Shaymin EX also affords you some attacking versatility beyond just its Setup Ability. A single copy of Shaymin EX (I still refuse to run more than 1 in any of my decks... lol) can greatly improve your games.

Relative to Garchomp:
I really like this new Pokémon and have had some great results in testing thus far. I'd suggest you checkout the Garchomp-specific discussion/deck threads; build and submit your version of the deck for suggested improvements or comments on strategy; then play-test, play-test, play-test and play-test till you arrive at your final version.

Lastly, seek out and join a local league in your area to help you ease back into the game, as well.

Enjoy and have fun.

 

[GreenPariah]

@Lenny here is a link to my deck list I am currently testing, and it works quite well. If you look in the deck garage there are a few other builds that utilize Rare Candy instead of Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick like mine.

http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/threads/garchomp-hawlucha-maxie.128209/

As for Palkia EX / M Gyrados EX I have not tested it, but I Have played against it. The main issue I saw with the deck was that it was rather inconsistent, I'm not sure if it that was due to it being made by a first time deckbuilder or what, but I know for a fact that Shaymin EX or even Octillery would have helped with the consistency. Manaphy EX is there to offset the high retreat cost of the Gyrados EX and Palkia EX.

As for Shaymin EX being a staple, it most certainly is, just like how a playset of whatever Fetches belong in your deck are in MTG, except Mono Red Burn of course
Most decks run 2-3 Shaymin EX to help with the initial setup, some only need one for that extra boost, and others need FOUR for the ultimate T1 Setup(Looking at Colorless M Rayquaza EX).

@TuxedoBlack Brought up ALOT of good advice, and pointed out some of the nesecary staples for any deck, and I could not agree more.

Now, pricing out a deck can be expensive, or cheap, depending on the build and what pokemon belong in it. For instance my build of Garchomp with the Shaymin EX should not cost more than $70. When you look at buying all the staples make sure you buy the singles, and don't try your luck with packs. You WILL lose money on buying packs hoping for singles. Also, don't be ashamed to playtest with proxies at your locals. Most leagues have no problem with new players using proxies to see what they want to play and how to build, except of course in premiere tourneys like League Challenges. Often times when a new set gets released in Japan I will print out scans of the cards to use as proxies so I can test the new archetypes before they even come out.

 

[Lenny]

Thank you everybody for your great responses! I really do appreciate each and every one of you. Looking through the cards and watching some videos, I think my two favorite options would be Palkia EX / M Gyarados EX or Garchomp. Last night I did some research and came upon a similar list that you have for staples, @TuxedoBlack and ordered a playset of most, except Vs Seeker, only got two of those they're expensive for an uncommon! I think my best bet would now be to build some versions of the deck and get some help in the Deck Garage!

@bbninjas, Thanks for the insight on Palkia EX! I don't know, I saw a video that went nuts with Golduck Break in 5 different games but I won't know until I test it for myself or get some other opinions on it as well.

@TuxedoBlack, Which free Pokemon TCG websites do you use for testing? I've downloaded the one from Pokemon itself, but there isn't many cards to choose from unless I buy packs and get codes, unless I am missing something here? Help on that would be much appreciated as well!

@GreenPariah Yeah, I think inconsistency could be an issue, especially if you dilute it with cards like Golduck Break. I think a minimum of 2-2 Octillery could help the deck with consistency, as well as 1-2 copies of Shaymin EX. I'll definitely go post in the Deck Garage and get help with a specific list, though!

 

[GreenPariah]

Since you were only able to order two of the VS Seeker, I would Proxy in however many more you need for your list so you can get used to the consistency. The difference between having them and not is pretty insane, an you will notice a difference. Also, try going to your LGS on a league day, VS Seeker was pulled pretty commonly when the set dropped, and people have an over abundance to trade with. So if you have trades, trade for your playset!

 

[Otaku]

@TuxedoBlack, Which free Pokemon TCG websites do you use for testing? I've downloaded the one from Pokemon itself, but there isn't many cards to choose from unless I buy packs and get codes, unless I am missing something here? Help on that would be much appreciated as well!

I recommend just sticking with the PTCGO, but a good deal of that is because I gave up on the unofficial options because while they kept getting prettier, it seemed like they were never as good as Apprentice was (and if you remember Apprentice it was designed for MtG). I think the big issue is an obsession with automating effects.

Anyway, getting up to speed on the PTCGO is a matter of learning how to properly grind on it and then doing it. If you want to get up to speed now then you're right, you'll need to pay. If you can wait a month or two, then you just need patience and persistence. Compared to say Hearthstone, the PTCGO throws product at you. XD Log in daily to get your daily bonus, work on building up your theme decks so that you can always have an option for the Daily Challenges without things getting too ridiculous, and never open a booster pack that can be traded. You start with the theme decks because the PTCGO has a Theme Deck mode for Ranked Play (where you can earn Bonus Wheel Spins whether you win or lose and wins count towards the Reward Ladder). The Tournament Mode does feature a Theme Deck option as well; some tournaments cost Tokens and reward players with Golden Tickets, while others cost Golden Tickets and aware Unlocked Booster Packs, which basically the true currency of the PTCGO.

The PTCGO will give you some things that are "locked" and can never be traded away, while others will be "unlocked" and can be traded. You should check out http://forums.pokemontcg.com/ because those are the official PTCGO forums and if you are logged in (use your PTCGO User Name and Password) you can see the In Game Item Exchange Sub-Forum. Without logging in you can see that it exists but you cannot view the content. In there you will see the Trading Companies (sometimes called Trading Houses). Basically industrious groups of players sometimes band together for these joint ventures, which results in a place where you can go and post a trade request (your boosters packs for their singles) according to the listed prices. Trading companies are like the Convenience Store of the TCG; if you want a card but can take your time getting it, just check the public trade offers board within the PTCGO itself.

The Trading Company threads are still useful as a price guide; if people aren't offering you something for less than the trading companies are asking, don't accept it. If you want to trade something of yours away, don't ask for more than what the trading companies do unless you want it to take a lot of time and to only work because you took advantage of someone else being ignorant (as they should know better than to overpay). If you want to trade away something quickly, offer it for a significant discount, but if you can wait just a mild discount will do. Not all Booster Packs are equal! It may seem confusing at first, but just like in real life booster packs that are harder to get are worth more, and those with better potential content are worth more... so the most available with the worst content are worth the least while the hardest to get that also have in demand cards are worth the most. Trading Companies usually have a generic booster pack price, along with a conversion rate for trades. If a card is listed as costing 5 booster packs, use the conversion chart to know how many of a specific pack it will cost. An in demand booster, for example, might be worth 1.25 per pack, so instead of 5 boosters you can pay with four. A really common booster might be worth only half value, so it would take 10 to get the same card.

If it sounds complicated, it kind of is, but in the way real-life trading is. This is why there are actually people who primarily collect even on the PTCGO; this is basically a second game to play! I eventually started recording stuff on spreadsheets to help myself out. Once you build up to a solid base, so long as you can commit the time, you should be able to complete entire sets within a week or two of their release, and by the end of the first month have a play set of at least all the important cards that aren't excessively in demand (re: stuff that is not like Shaymin-EX).