Discussion Viability of Archeops NVI... Without Maxie?

[bbninjas]

I've been thinking about it a lot recently and I'm pretty convinced that Archeops NVI is actually really consistent without Maxie. I'd like to make it clear that I have barely tested this, meaning this is nearly completely theorymon.

The basic procession is to Battle Compressor Archen PLB into the discard pile. Use the ability of Archen to place the Pokemon on the bottom of the deck and then use the appropriate fossil to place Archen on the bench. I think that this is a much more consistent process in getting out Archeops, rather than using Maxie, which is more often a hit-or-miss.

Through my theorising, I have come up with three negatives that particularly hinder this strategy. Firstly, this process takes up a heck of a lot of deck space - 4 Archen, 4 Archeops, 4 Fossil, a couple of Korrina and 4 Battle Compressor for maximum consistency. The second hindrance is the fact that once you set up Archeops, most of the said cards have immediately become a wasted space. The final hindrance is that a Turn 1 Archeops is quite unlikely. However, considering Pokemon cannot evolve first-turn in the first place, I don't really think this is important.

I then went through potential partners, and immediately Flareon and/or Vespiquen came to mind. Unused Archen and Archeops can be discard for boosting attack damage, and you already have the Battle Compressors, leaving only Fossils to try and fit in. I found that my very scrappy decklist was a bit clunky (that or I simply have no idea how to play Vespiquen), so this idea may not exactly be the best partner.

Other partners that I've thought of include:

Pyroar FLF + Evosodas + Wally + Toad (?)
- Your standard Archeops partner - prevent evolution and wall basics. Falls hard to any deck running Evosoda and Wally.

Pyroar FLF + Pyroar PHF + Wally + Evosoda
- Perhaps a different take on the other Pyroar idea, more focused on Lysandering down kills.

Landorus FFI and/or Lucario and/or P-Groudon (+ Evosodas)
- I honestly think this is most promising, as it is already synergetic with the fighting nature of Archeops. Battle Compressor works very well (from the theory-mon side) with Maxies (if you'd prefer to go with that route), Landorus FFI (energy acceleration) and Mega Turbo (P-Groudon acceleration).

Seismitoad and/or Vileplume and/or Trevenant
- For a nearly complete evolution-lock with Archeops, blocking off Evosodas. I doubt this variant will work.

Some other really bulky Basic Pokemon + some decent healing engine (i.e. a defensive variant). [M]-Manectric-EX comes to mind, actually.
- I've noticed that most Basic EXs (especially more recently) are very incapable of taking 1-hit KOs against high-HP Pokemon. I think that this can be used advantageously to create a very capable defensive deck, with things like Rough Seas and/or Hard Charms, and Max Potions.

Anyways, my discussion points are:
- What do you think of this strategy?
- What partners do you think would work quite well with this sort of strategy?

 

[Vom]

You know, this is about getting out Archen, not Archeops, so your whole point is pointless :V
First off, I haven't tested this either, so this is theorymon as well.
While it is certainly interesting, I don't think this is the best route for Archeops. While it /could/ be more consistent at getting it out, a number of flaws kill it:

• Like you said, it takes a lot of space. 18-20 cards just to get out Archeops (or anything, really) just isn't worth it. 'But, Vom, you also have to devote space for Maxie and the necessary cards for getting it out! Your argument is invalid! >:L' You don't 'need' to devote space to Maxie & Cie. The decks that abuse Archeops (Night March and Yveltal) already run Battle Compressor, and the fact that they interact with the Discard pile quite a lot (be it for attacks, recycling or acceleration) means they don't have to deviate much from their initial route in order to include Maxie and Archeops, and can generate advantage by discarding cards. Besides, the fact that their damage output is really good (especially if the opponent doesn't have access to his evolutions/Megas) is a plus. On the other hand, decks that don't run Battle Compressor already or that do not interact with the Discard pile in any way (or both) shouldn't be running Archeops at all, be it the Fossil route or the Maxie route (more elaboration on the Fossil route in the next point, as that's the one that talks about dead cards). Maxie works a lot like YGO's Infernity archetype: have a lot of cards that can either help you burn resources faster, or be burned themselves no matter when you get them. The only cards in Pokémon that can be played no matter what (unless you're under a lock, of course) are Item cards and Basic Pokémon (Supporters and Stadiums don't count because you can only play one of each during your turn), meaning if you want to use Maxie consistently you're going to have a lot of these. However, decks that don't run Battle Compressor are usually too slow to use it effectively, meaning Maxie isn't going to work. On the other hand, your deck can be really speedy without Battle Compressor, but if you add it to the natural speed of your deck, it will most likely backfire.
• It leaves a lot of dead cards in the deck once you set it up (you said too ). Elaboration on previous point: if you take the Fossil route and devote ~20 spots to it, that's not gonna let you fit much else without being clunky. Just by adding a standard Supporter count, you already have half your deck. And throwing that many cards by the window (because you'll most likely discard the rest after you set up) to get out 1 single card just seems so terrible to me. Whether you already run Battle Compressor or not, you're starting every match with a 40-card deck. Oh, and if you run Battle Compressor already the Maxie route is better, as I'll explain next.
• The whole point of Archeops is locking your opponent out of evolutions. 'We already knew that, Vom.' Well, mind you, you probably didn't know that the point is to do it as early as- 'Vom, we play the TCG too. Just get to the point.' Fine, fine. The whole point here is that, like Seismitoad-EX and Vileplume, you want to establish the lock ASAP. Which means, T1 is the optimal turn to lock your opponent, as they might not have had the chance to do anything before. Like you mentioned, the Fossil route makes it pretty difficult to pull off T1, while the Maxie route is able to do it. 'But, but, what if you get Item locked? Neither works then.' Correct, but don't forget that you will most likely get one turn of Items. In that turn of Items, you can do all you can to get Archen/Archeops out. In case you do, cool, no AZ/Eeveelutions shenanigans. In case you don't, though, you'll be in trouble if you play Fossils, because those don't work under Item lock. However, Maxie, being a Supporter, can be used under Item lock, though you'd have to empty your hand first. However, should you topdeck it with an empty hand, you'll get out Archeops alright. The Fossil, though-it stays fossilized. Even if you get another turn of Items, chances are you already got N'd, meaning the Archen that was under your deck isn't there anymore. Of course, the better play here is to leave it in the Discard until you can play the Fossil. Even then, you'll still have to wait and search for Archeops in order to be able to lock.

On other news, if you were to use Fossilized Archeops, I think it'd have to be in a simple deck that doesn't need a lot to run properly, like Toad (though no Bats hurts) or Manectric-EX+Head Ringers 'n Stuff. Or maybe even Wailord :V (?)

Either way, I hope this helps
Oh and btw, if I didn't make sense anywhere (or if the fact that I have an imaginary audience annoys you ) please tell me in the morning. It's late, and I might have overlooked something.

 

[DarkRay]

If you want to use battle compressor, I don't see the need for more than 2-2-2 line of fossil-archen-archeops. Because you always have 4 korrina+4 vs seeker then it is very fast to bring archeops to play with only 2 cards (1 battle compressor+1 korrina or vs seeker)
Or with 1 fossil +1 korrina. Haven't tried it yet, but can golurk boundaries crossed be a good partner for archeops?