Discussion Volcanion vs. Gardevoir - is it actually 50-50?

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politoed12

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hey there,


I‘ve been playing both Gardevoir and Volcanion for quite a long time now. After Igor‘s 1st place Regionals with Volc, I was worried that the matchup changed a lot in Volcanion‘s favor. Gardy again proved it‘s strength at Vancouver Regionals though.


What do you think, which cards are the most relevant in this matchup for both decks? Am I missing any?


Gardevoir needs:

  • T1 Brigette (to prevent donks)
  • Field Blower (to get rid of FFBs)
  • Guzma (to KO upcoming threats)
  • Sylveon-GX (threatening Plea-GX and improving consistency)
  • Parallel City (both sides work against Volcanion)

Experimental: Zoroark-GX / Zoroark BKT - both of them have a good attack for just a DCE. It could take away some of the pressure early in the game. I consider a 3-3 line while cutting Sylveon and Octillery. That would make the deck work differently in other matchups too, obviously.


Volcanion needs:

  • Turtonator-GX (best attacker vs Gardevoir)
  • Baby Volc @ FFB for a T1 KO on Ralts, Remoraid or Eevee
  • Field Blower (to get rid of Choice Band and Parallel City)
  • Guzma (to pick up easy KOs)
  • Enhanced Hammer (to slow down Gardevoir a little bit)

Experimental: Shining Ho-oh - I like the idea of keeping Energy in play after a KO, and it‘s just a 1 prize attacker. 4 Energies are a lot though.
 
From my experience, as a Volcanion player, its more like 70-30 in favor of Gardevior-GX, just for the mere reason that Volcanion, Turtonator, Ho-Oh, and most Fire attackers need usually 3 or more energies to attack and that is just crippling when facing a card that preys on energy punishment. You need to be quick and KO Ralts or Kirlia. Cause once a Gard gets up, its really hard to beat, and if there is two or more, its pretty much gg, unless they hella brick or they suck
 
It's very dependent on which Volc build you're running. Due to outspeeding and avoiding excessive energy and spreading energy around the field and use of enhanced hammers, I've won about 75% of the Gardevoir matches I've run into with Igor Costa's list.
 
Do you have a link to his deck list, or is it just on TPCi website? Cause I might try it
 
It's on the tcpi website. They've actually been good about getting deck lists loaded for recent regionals.
 
The matchup seems to be 50-50. However, from my experience, Volcanion and/or Ho-Oh/Salazzle can beat Gardevoir about 80% of the time. This being because of the sheer consistency and speed Volcanion decks just seem to have. Also, Gardevoir needs Brigette to setup, while Volcanion just need Baby Volcanion to start taking out Ralts. Although, in some cases, Gardevoir will be able to win, as most of your attackers need at least 3 Energy. Now, Igor's list is very interesting. I havent been able to try it yet, but it seems like it will do well. I will probably search YouTube for an interview with him. I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish with his card choices, so I wont really know how to play it, but I would say try it.
 
As a Gardevoir player I feel it is more of a 70-30 vs Volcanion, no matter the build. It really depends on getting a not horrible starting hand. That is a risk every deck has, but Volcanion with FFB and a Volcanion EX on the bench can punish that hard and win in a few turns sniping Ralts or Remoraid.
 
My testing has shown its about 50/50 despite what you would expect, ie Gardevoir punishing the energy attachments.
Turtonator discarding down to 2 energy while one shotting Gardevoir with 2x steam up plus ffb is pretty key.
Plus you are usually up prizes because of volcanion stealing kills on vulpix ralts etc.


Ho Oh Salazzle seems to have very poor chances about 20/80 because you can’t get rid of the 4 energy on Ho Oh.
 
FlavorfulPineApl said:
The matchup seems to be 50-50. However, from my experience, Volcanion and/or Ho-Oh/Salazzle can beat Gardevoir about 80% of the time. This being because of the sheer consistency and speed Volcanion decks just seem to have. Also, Gardevoir needs Brigette to setup, while Volcanion just need Baby Volcanion to start taking out Ralts. Although, in some cases, Gardevoir will be able to win, as most of your attackers need at least 3 Energy. Now, Igor's list is very interesting. I havent been able to try it yet, but it seems like it will do well. I will probably search YouTube for an interview with him. I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish with his card choices, so I wont really know how to play it, but I would say try it.
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How do you beat Gardevoir with Ho-oh/Salazzle? Sure, slow starts happen, but Gardevoir just gets the KOs too easily.
 
politoed12 said:
How do you beat Gardevoir with Ho-oh/Salazzle? Sure, slow starts happen, but Gardevoir just gets the KOs too easily.
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Speed. From my experiences, Ho-Oh is able to consistently KO Gardevoirs even though they might KO you right back. Really, its how you play the decks, and how experienced you are with them. The matchup can go either way though, which is why its 50-50
 
It completely depends on the list iv'e seen lists that have great matchups along with lists with terrible ones.
 
You need elixirs to match speed at the start and then you need to be using turtonator to discard 2 energy which helps mitigate the damage from garde
 
It's list dependant, IMO.

Turtonator as the main attacker stands the best chance. Ho-Oh is a pretty bad match up here.

A statistic we'll never know is who went first more often during the Gardy/Volcanion match ups unless people were literally there and kept track. If you're relying on Baby Volcanion, going 2nd seems like the advantage since you can Power Heater on your turn 1 for damage pressure, but if you're a Kiawe build, you want to go first when you can't attack anyway.

As for OP's question about Zoroark GX, you never want to be the one playing Zoroark GX in a Gardevoir mirror. Gallade will ruin your life. I tried Zoroark GX as well for an improved Metagross match up, but Gallade wrecks you so hard, and you're much more likely to run into another Gardy than a Metagross anyway (thanks Volcanion).
 
Igor's Volc list is probably the best at handling the Gardy matchup specifically, because he plays 2 E hammers. BUT his list is already somewhat outdated in that he didn't any stadiums, and Gardy decks have adjusted by including at least 1 copy of Parallel City, as well as Sylveon GX to improve consistency and giving the deck an early tank to sit behind while developing their board.

Volc relies simply on speed and consistency to win this matchup in particular, much like the Mega Mewtwo matchup from early last season, only Volc players now have Turtles, which help a TON. Still though, if they get a Gardy setup and you can't immediately KO it with a Turtle, you're pretty much toast. Like most matchups so far this season, it's decided more by who can setup faster and more consistently than just about any other factor.

Also, don't underestimate the utility of Turt's first attack. You can easily steam up into Ralts-KO range and if they don't have an answer, they will have to attack into your Turtle, leaving them vulnerable to a Volc EX KO. If a Volc player is taking KOs with a Dad instead of a Turtle, life is gonna be pretty good for the Volc players.

All this said, the matchup still honestly feels 60-40 in Gardy's favor, just because the deck is so good right now, and if you stumble for even a single turn as the Volc player, you probably can't win.
 
Sylveon lists just wreck Volcanion, from my point of view as a Gardivoir player. they set up as fast, hit the turn 2 Gardy because the fire player is too busy putting on the pressure, Gardy one shots, than Volc just loses
 
pikachuuuu101 said:
Sylveon lists just wreck Volcanion, from my point of view as a Gardivoir player. they set up as fast, hit the turn 2 Gardy because the fire player is too busy putting on the pressure, Gardy one shots, than Volc just loses
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We all have different opinions and results from playing these decks, which, from seeing everybody's; the matchup does in fact appear to be 50-50. Its mostly about who doesn't skip a beat.
 
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