Article Wailord Deck Analysis and Interview with U.S. Nationals Finalist: Enrique Avila

[Kenneth Ecker]

A new story has just been posted to PokéBeach's front page:

• Wailord Deck Analysis and Interview with U.S. Nationals Finalist: Enrique Avila

Posts you make after this point will immediately appear on the front page and vice versa. Discuss!

 

[Green778]

Great article and congratulations to Enrique for his amazing achievement by placing 2nd in the largest Pokemon Tournament! "The Great Whale" or "Moby Dick" was a truly smart deck and has made history for its uniqueness I have one question though either to Kenneth or Enrique himself:

->Let's say that we have 2 players; player A playing a random deck and player B playing Wailord. Player B goes first. Player B plays a Wailord active and a bunch of other cards. Player B finishes his turn. Player A begins his turn with a single pokemon on field (plays nothing else) and passes. Player B passes. Player A passes and so on... That game lead to Player B losing right? Wailord never goes offensive and no matter how many Ns there will be or Hughs Player A will always have "more" cards in his deck, and so will not deck out first. (excluding trick shovel if Player B has played more cards on turn 1 than should)

 

[TheStrictNein]

Great article and congratulations to Enrique for his amazing achievement by placing 2nd in the largest Pokemon Tournament! "The Great Whale" or "Moby richard" was a truly smart deck and has made history for its uniqueness I have one question though either to Kenneth or Enrique himself:

->Let's say that we have 2 players; player A playing a random deck and player B playing Wailord. Player B goes first. Player B plays a Wailord active and a bunch of other cards. Player B finishes his turn. Player A begins his turn with a single pokemon on field (plays nothing else) and passes. Player B passes. Player A passes and so on... That game lead to Player B losing right? Wailord never goes offensive and no matter how many Ns there will be or Hughs Player A will always have "more" cards in his deck, and so will not deck out first. (excluding trick shovel if Player B has played more cards on turn 1 than should)

Hugh and Sacred Ash are the answers to that. Also, typically, Enrique only ever played 1 Wailord first turn. No other cards, unless he could disrupt something

You can manipulate the match up to have more cards in your deck than your opponent, no matter what they do.

 

[xZero]

I think a lot of players in worlds will include 1 Bunnelby in their decks to counter Wailord, and also recycle things such as Lasers or Hammers.

 

[Green778]

Hugh and Sacred Ash are the answers to that. Also, typically, Enrique only ever played 1 Wailord first turn. No other cards, unless he could disrupt something

You can manipulate the match up to have more cards in your deck than your opponent, no matter what they do.

He used supporters and stadiums... Thus, limiting his hand... That's why I said that if sb played nothing, they could win ... Since supporters where irreversible...

 

[TheStrictNein]

He used supporters and stadiums... Thus, limiting his hand... That's why I said that if sb played nothing, they could win ... Since supporters where irreversible...

Trust me, they know that strategy, and the deck is built around the opponent having to draw/discard more than Wailord overall, unless the opponent uses Bunnelby.

They specifically said they play tested against draw/pass strategies. Plus, consider this.

You draw pass for say 30 turns. The Wailord player has only played 1 Wailord (no other cards) and has 5 Pokemon, a Hugh, and Sacred Ash in his hand (with other assorted cards).

The wailord player Hughs, discards the Pokemon, then shuffles them back in with Sacred Ash.

Boom, he now has 5 more cards in his deck than you. With VS Seeker and Dowsing Machine he can do this again for 10 more cards than you.

Jason K only won the second game, despite passing for most of it, because the match ran out of time. Wailord would have easily decked him out otherwise.

 

[Joseph Redd]

Didn't Grant Manley come up with the idea of using Wailord EX to stall? I know that he talked about it and discussed a deck list about three weeks ago here on Pokebeach. I know myself and a couple of others have been trying out different lists staring Wailord since we saw the article. I am not trying to downgrade Enrique's accomplishment, I would just like to give credit were credit is due.

 

[TheStrictNein]

Didn't Grant Manley come up with the idea of using Wailord EX to stall? I know that he talked about it and discussed a deck list about three weeks ago here on Pokebeach. I know myself and a couple of others have been trying out different lists staring Wailord since we saw the article. I am not trying to downgrade Enrique's accomplishment, I would just like to give credit were credit is due.

Grant M reported on it here but I believe in his article he said he'd heard talk of the Wailord and made his own version.

Somewhat prophetically, he said he wasn't worried about preparing for Wailord at Nats because he didn't see it being a big threat.

Well.

 

[Camoclone]

Didn't Grant Manley come up with the idea of using Wailord EX to stall? I know that he talked about it and discussed a deck list about three weeks ago here on Pokebeach. I know myself and a couple of others have been trying out different lists staring Wailord since we saw the article. I am not trying to downgrade Enrique's accomplishment, I would just like to give credit were credit is due.

Grant did create his version of the deck; however, it had no influence on Enrique or his testing group. They both created it separately.

Grant M reported on it here but I believe in his article he said he'd heard talk of the Wailord and made his own version.

I don't think he actually said this (just skimmed the article). From what I understand he created it himself with no outside help.


For those wondering here is the article written by Grant: http://www.pokebeach.com/2015/06/under-the-radar-top-picks-for-nationals

 

[Joseph Redd]

Grant did create his version of the deck; however, it had no influence on Enrique or his testing group. They both created it separately.


I don't think he actually said this (just skimmed the article). From what I understand he created it himself with no outside help.


For those wondering here is the article written by Grant: http://www.pokebeach.com/2015/06/under-the-radar-top-picks-for-nationals

Thanks for clearing that up. I was just curious and I wasn't sure where the deck originated from.

 

[Scrafty'sMinion]

After Nats on T&T Wailord EX and FA went up like five bucks

 

[grantm1999]

Somewhat prophetically, he said he wasn't worried about preparing for Wailord at Nats because he didn't see it being a big threat.

Well.

haha

I knew it was good but I didn't think anyone would actually play it. I didn't use my Crawdaunt version because it isn't good against Metal.

 

[Daft Derek]

It's sad that this is what Pokemon TCG has come to....

 

[Camoclone]

It's sad that this is what Pokemon TCG has come to....

I think a lot of players actually love this deck and its creativity. I guess everyone likes different things.

haha

I knew it was good but I didn't think anyone would actually play it. I didn't use my Crawdaunt version because it isn't good against Metal.

To be fair I don't think this version has a good Metal matchup either.

 

[fleshrum]

"I feel this deck performs really well in a best-of-three series, as it can take a long time to deck your opponent out in game one, and time often runs out in game two, securing a win in your favor."

Except for that time in the finals, lol.
That match tho--that's the reason the goat is the goat and everyone else is everyone else.

 

[TheStrictNein]

I think a lot of players actually love this deck and its creativity. I guess everyone likes different things.

I like the concept. I hate the actuality of it. Kinda like Communism.

The deck results in games of 50 minutes with maybe 2 prizes taken. That's boring. That's boring to watch, boring to play, boring to be involved in.

Notice how throughout the final match, everyone was focusing on what Jason K was doing. We only really cared about Jason Ks deck and how he was playing because we knew what Wailord would do, which is sod all.

Just my opinion, but people floated the idea of LTC being banned because Pokemon didn't want new players watching the World Championships and seeing 10 minute turns.

Do you think they want to see 50 minute games where 1 prize is taken that ends in a draw?

 

[Nyora]

What about the toad? I see that a lot of warlord decks are played with healing items, so seismitoad could easily counter the warlord, as well as the next set, (ancient origins) bringing on a lot of good grass types, which just so happens to warlord and suicunes weakness. Also, suicunes plus some other cards are also rotating with the new set, so unless there is another way to play warlord, I think he won't be used competitively soon... That as too bad

 

[TheStrictNein]

What about the toad? I see that a lot of warlord decks are played with healing items, so seismitoad could easily counter the warlord, as well as the next set, (ancient origins) bringing on a lot of good grass types, which just so happens to warlord and suicunes weakness. Also, suicunes plus some other cards are also rotating with the new set, so unless there is another way to play warlord, I think he won't be used competitively soon... That as too bad

Toad is actually a good match up for Wailord. While it locks off Max Potions, it doesn't lock off Cassius and AZ, or TFG/Xerosic. You're only doing very little damage, which can be negated with Hard Charm and Rough Seas.

Remember, Jason K only made it to the Sudden Death due to timeout. Had the second game been allowed to finish, Wailord would have won. Seismitoad can take that first prize very easily, but runs out of steam.

And yes, Wailord is pretty much dead after rotation. Grass will be big and losing cards like Suicune and Max Potion are pretty much nails in the coffin.

 

[Nocturne]

one trick pony if he had went against bronzong or mega manectric early he would of been destroyed its all about luck


soon we will see mega sceptile decks which i am sure will have lots of energy retrievals and hitting wailords weakness

M tyranitar will be able to 1 hit wailord

vespiqueen will destroy wailord

sometimes a weak deck only gets through because its matched against decks that cant do well against it also dont forget the energy recycle coming


also this deck is the water deck with a massive fire weakness due to blacksmith spam will overpower this decks ability to remove energies

 

[Camoclone]

Creativity? More like cheap. The guy said so himself....

It can be cheap and creative. I respect your opinion but mine is that decking out is a legitimate win condition for a reason. I don't find it cheap at all.

one trick pony if he had went against bronzong or mega manectric early he would of been destroyed its all about luck

I know the Wailord players actually played against both Metal and Tric and did well either tying or winning multiple times (this was mentioned on another site). Grant Manley (@grantm1999 ) actually lost to Wailord in top 4 playing Tric and he created Wailord weeks before the tournament thus knowing how to play against it.

sometimes a weak deck only gets through because its matched against decks that cant do well against it also dont forget the energy recycle coming

I don't think this was the case with this deck. Especially with such a diverse meta and the fact that this was U.S. Nats (the biggest tourney of the year).

also this deck is the water deck with a massive fire weakness due to blacksmith spam will overpower this decks ability to remove energies

Lets be honest, Fire doesn't actually exist right now. And if they are using Blacksmith then they are just playing towards Wailord's win condition. They are decking themselves to get energy in the discard and by playing Supporters. Not to mention energy denial isn't Wailord's biggest game plan. Scoop Up cards are and Fire can't OHKO Wailord.