What are the Top 3 Standard Decks?
- Thread starter Cinco210
- Start date
In the metagame discussion forum for standard there are a number of decks ranked in tiers.
Tier 1:
Speed M Rayquaza EX
M Mewtwo
Tier 2:
Darkai/Giratina/Garb
Greninja Break
Vespiquen
M Scizor
Rainbow Road
Things may change with new expansions, but overall these are considered top decks.
Tier 1:
Speed M Rayquaza EX
M Mewtwo
Tier 2:
Darkai/Giratina/Garb
Greninja Break
Vespiquen
M Scizor
Rainbow Road
Things may change with new expansions, but overall these are considered top decks.
Those lists haven't been updated in ages. If you asked me for a tier list, here's what it would look like.
Tier 1:
M Mewtwo (Y)
Darkrai / Giratina / Garb
Vileplume Toolbox
Tier 2:
Volcanion: Will likely become Tier 1 once Evolutions Starmie becomes legal
Rainbow Road
Yveltal Variants
Greninja BREAK
M Gardevoir-EX
M Rayquaza-EX: Could see Tier 3 if it can't find easy outs against Garbodor and Parallel City
Just out of curiosity, how often do those lists get updated?
Vileplume Toolbox? Could I get a list, please?
I just posted my data in this forum from the first two months in the new rotation. I believe that there are 4 top tier decks: Mega Ray, Greninja, Volcanion, and Rainbow Road, but the data from October is not as clear cut as it was in September.
What is clear is that M Mewtwo and M Gardevoir are not tier 1 and might not even be tier 2. I won 62% of matches against M Mewtwo and 65% against Gardevoir in October. They were the second and third most common pokemon I faced, and I beat them a lot.
Omnipoke just did a video on the Vileplume toolbox a couple days ago. It seems like it has some limitations to me. I need a lot more data before I jump on that bandwagon.
The Dark decks (led by Darkrai and usually including Yveltal, Yveltal EX, and others) are good. They fell off some from September where it looked like to me that Darkrai would be a tier 1 deck, but after a less impressive October I'm not so sure.
Also in consideration is Yanmega Vespiquen, but I haven't figured that one out for myself yet, so I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else at this point, but it's had a lot of success against me (albeit in a very limited sample size).
But if you're just starting out, Rainbow Road might be the cheapest and easiest way to go.
What is clear is that M Mewtwo and M Gardevoir are not tier 1 and might not even be tier 2. I won 62% of matches against M Mewtwo and 65% against Gardevoir in October. They were the second and third most common pokemon I faced, and I beat them a lot.
Omnipoke just did a video on the Vileplume toolbox a couple days ago. It seems like it has some limitations to me. I need a lot more data before I jump on that bandwagon.
The Dark decks (led by Darkrai and usually including Yveltal, Yveltal EX, and others) are good. They fell off some from September where it looked like to me that Darkrai would be a tier 1 deck, but after a less impressive October I'm not so sure.
Also in consideration is Yanmega Vespiquen, but I haven't figured that one out for myself yet, so I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else at this point, but it's had a lot of success against me (albeit in a very limited sample size).
But if you're just starting out, Rainbow Road might be the cheapest and easiest way to go.
Why M Scizor/Garbodor is not Tier 1? It has favorable match ups against all the top meta decks! They are all like 60-40. It counter M Ray pretty easy with Parallel City/Garbodor and energy denial with its attack for the DCE and Crushing Hammer to discard basics.
Oh yeah, Volcanion is almost autoloss, but between those meta decks, Volcanion is now much less played than M Mewtwo, Rainbow Road and Darkrai/Giratina.
Against Greninja is pretty good, they dont go far without abilities and without stadium.
Not sure if this matters but on PTCGO, I have been running into a lot of Greninja and Volcanion.
Based on what I've seen from tournament results (Regional's, ARG), and various articles youtube videos the tiers would look sometime like this
Tier 1
M Mewtwo
Dark/Tina/Garb
Yveltal with or without Garb
Tier 2
Volcanion (very close to tier 1)
Greninja (very close to tier 1)
Rainbow Road
Vileplume Box
Tier 3
M Gardevoir (slowly climbing up to tier 2 Dragonite Ex might propel it up)
M Ray
M Scizor
Vespiqueen
Gyarados (considered it for tier 2, but people are more prepared for it now)
Tier 4 (With how the top tiers are currently I think any of these decks have potential)
Raikou
P Groudon
M Gyarados/P kyogre
Tier 1
M Mewtwo
Dark/Tina/Garb
Yveltal with or without Garb
Tier 2
Volcanion (very close to tier 1)
Greninja (very close to tier 1)
Rainbow Road
Vileplume Box
Tier 3
M Gardevoir (slowly climbing up to tier 2 Dragonite Ex might propel it up)
M Ray
M Scizor
Vespiqueen
Gyarados (considered it for tier 2, but people are more prepared for it now)
Tier 4 (With how the top tiers are currently I think any of these decks have potential)
Raikou
P Groudon
M Gyarados/P kyogre
I think the deck lists only happen after major events such as Regionals or the Origins tournament.
Tier lists are often based on a deck's general performance ability throughout numerous events, both small and big, with the mainest factors being how often it makes Top Cut/Prize Cut, how often it can win its way through the Top Cut bracket, and how it interacts with the varying decks in the meta. If you were to describe tiers, they would be more like this.
Tier 1: Will often be seen in Top Cut and 1st place at major tournaments. A safe option if you're only looking to win prizes, but may face hardships getting to Top Cut due to the sheer amount of people going out of their way to counter decks in this tier rather than a lack of strength.
Tier 2: Often seen occupying the Prize Cut (Top 16/Top 32) and has favorable match-ups against several decks, but have some substantial and common weaknesses that prevent it from being foolproof. Can make it to Top Cut with few troubles, but is unlikely that the same Tier 2 deck will see Top Cut consistently due to the large pool of players/decks and their general inconsistency.
Tier 3: Generally inconsistent, and rarely seen in the deeper end of Top Cut, but will sometimes make the Prize Cut. Decks in this tier are usually either too inconsistent to do that well or are brand-new with few people that understand the deeper mechanics of the deck. They can be a common sight at smaller grassroots tournaments and can even win those sometimes.
Tier 4: Decks here are often created only for fun. They are lucky to even see the Prize Cut in grassroots competitions. Don't expect decks in this tier to hold for long in large competitions.
Mega Pidgeot isn't standard legal for another three weeks so it hasn't seen any tournament play yet. I could see it doing ok in theory, but we'll see if anyone tries it at a major tournament once it's legal for play.
I second this post. However, I think Yveltal Variants should be tier 1 as well. Yveltal is the consistency king -- or maybe I'm just bias because that's the deck I run
(But I do win most of my games with it).M Rayquaza-EX I can see being Tier 3 as well. I played a Rayquaza deck at one of my local leagues against my standard Rainbow Road, and I tech parallel city in that deck and it was just awful to see all his dudes go to the discard pile.
Interesting enough, the last LC i went to Greninja BREAK took first place. He told me he did not run into any Garbodor (and I also ran Greninja during the same tournament and faced all the hard match ups :/). Garbador is way too meta in this format, lol.
I do not agree with the Vileplume toolbox, but then again I haven't really faced enough matches with it to give an insightful opinion about it.
I second this post. However, I think Yveltal Variants should be tier 1 as well. Yveltal is the consistency king -- or maybe I'm just bias because that's the deck I run
M Rayquaza-EX I can see being Tier 3 as well. I played a Rayquaza deck at one of my local leagues against my standard Rainbow Road, and I tech parallel city in that deck and it was just awful to see all his dudes go to the discard pile.
Interesting enough, the last LC i went to Greninja BREAK took first place. He told me he did not run into any Garbodor (and I also ran Greninja during the same tournament and faced all the hard match ups :/). Garbador is way too meta in this format, lol.
I do not agree with the Vileplume toolbox, but then again I haven't really faced enough matches with it to give an insightful opinion about it.
The thing about Vileplume variants, especially those like what was faced at Florida (Jolteon / Glaceon / Mew + techs) is that between the exclusive access to item lock and Magearna-EX's defenses against Jirachi, it can be mind-numbingly difficult to break past the wall. Unless you are prudent and get Garbodor set up early, you are going to have very few outs unless you run a lot of Rangers or Lysandres.
Anyways, while I wouldn't put Yveltal variants behind me in Standard, you can't help but think that a deck that centers around a Pokemon that's dependent on opponent input leaves itself wide open to disaster. To give some examples, Greninja, even without GWS, can play the defensive game with Bursting Balloons and Max Potions, Volcanion can attack with its non-EX Basics until it finds an opening to KO Garbodor and proceed to steamroll you with Steam Up attacks, Mewtwo Y can use Garbodor to render Mew useless and turn Yveltal's strategies on its head, and so on. Yveltal may be a catch-all solution, but it rarely ever sees a safe match-up, and that's why I think it belongs in Tier 2.
Greninja is still 60-40 because of garbodor
This would be my tier list with the same decks as yours:
Tier 1
Dark/Tina/Garb
Volcanion
M mewtwo ( maybe tier 2 for evolutions mewtwo countering it)
Tier 2
Greninja
M scizor (close to tier 1 but volcanion killls it)
M ray
Yveltal
Rainbow road
Vileplume
Tier 3
M gardevoir
Vespiquen
Gyarados
Tier 4
P groudon
P kyogre
Raikou
As you can see from other players' posts, there are a lot of opinions...; plus, tournament results can often skew deck Tier discussions this early in the season; and tournament size (League Challenge vs. Regional) do not often reflect solid deck Tier division either.
I would suggest, however, searching the net for the Regional tournament results since these should reflect a wider deck population. Some websites even post actual data about the number of decks competing in the top rounds. The decks reflected in the top rounds of these larger tournaments may also give you an idea about the so-called "top" decks.