Discussion What happened to Gengar / Trevenant / Wally?

PlinfaTheBest

PlinfaTheBest

Plinfa means Piplup in German!
Member
Hey everyone,

I was recently thinking about Gengar/Trevenant/Wally because it seems like nobody is playing it. But I think that you can still play and win with this deck. It blocks Battle Compressor, a crucial card for Night March or Vespiquen and a great help for Yveltal/Zoroark/Gallade, all Tools (Entei) etc. Almost every deck relies on items at the moment. Combined with Silent Lab to block Shaymin, you should get positive matchups against most decks. The only card that counters this deck is Lysandre, imo, but you will have a hard time finding and playing him if you are item- and Shaymin-locked.

So what do you think about this deck? Does it still have a spot in the standard meta or is it just dead?

Regards,
PlinfaTheBest
 
Trevenant is indeed a great card and will become better with the next set. The one thing that holds the deck back is the [D] weakness and the dominance of decks focused around Yveltal and Zoroark.
 
I think one of the things that dragged the archetype down was how it relied on going first and setting up a Turn 1 Trevenant, which I don't think was too consistent. I think it also could be overrun by things like Manectric-EX and can't really respond to explosive Turn 1 set ups from an opposing deck. I personally don't think Gengar is a good partner for it, as Lysandre can be a major issue, and honestly would try to stick with energy denial (i.e. Hammers) and benching only Trevenant.
 
Most decks can't get that explosive start without lots of items and Shaymin. The only reason Trevenant isn't tier 1 is because he's weak to Dark. That's it.
 
With such short efficient attackers in the new meta, treventent starts to become slow and complicated. Even with the new break card, I just don't know how that is going to get running before one of the more efficient attackers get the card. I think the new treventent card is a better option versus the item lock card that was heavy in the older meta. Honestly, item lock decks got the short end of the stick in the new meta because pokemon released a lot of cards with efficient attackers.
 
I prefer a different Pokémon to lock out my opponent, namely Vileplume. I know It's a stage 2 line and you're locked out of playing items as well. But you can't overlook the pros. The best part is that you can still play a supporter thanks to Giant Plant Forest. The reliance on Wally makes Trevenant slightly inconsistent. You have to start with a very good hand because you can't refresh it with a supporter. Also Vileplume is just chillin' on your bench. this makes streaming the lock very consistent. Lysandre can't hurt you too much except if you have no way to retrieve Vileplume. And ofcourse another big pro is that you can use a powerful attacker that doesn't need to switch out. (For example Giratina EX, Lugia EX, Miltank, Regice) A very nice tech you can use in Vileplume decks is Ghetsis+Jirachi EX. If you're not likely to get out the Vileplume line, Ghetsis will be your back-up for the first turn. However Vileplume is currently tier 4 according to this site, I'm not certain why... I'm pretty confident about my current variant :(
 
With the HUGE popularity and success of Yveltal-Zoroark decks (and even Zoroark techs), Dark-Weak decks, like Gengar-Trevenant, will easily be 1HKO'd more often than not and the Gengar-Trevenant deck player may not be able to readily respond with KOs. Advantage: Yveltal-Zoroark.
 
I noticed that A ALOT of people were playing Yveltal Zoroark Gallade. It would take nothing to KO a Gengar or Trev
 
Dark-type weakness.

The deck is solid and has good matchups against a lot of things, but ... it can't beat Yveltal or anything that techs Zoroark.
 
The insane dark weakness makes me wonder why a tech of Weakness Policy isn't being used. Since it's a major weakness, and it doesn't *really* need Muscle Band, it could actually be a decent tool.
 
The deck straight up loses to Mega Manectric and Yveltal/Zoroark decks. If it didn't lose to the top 2 tier 1/1.5 deck right now, I'd maybe say differently. It has seen some top cuts at cities though.
 
bbninjas said:
The insane dark weakness makes me wonder why a tech of Weakness Policy isn't being used. Since it's a major weakness, and it doesn't *really* need Muscle Band, it could actually be a decent tool.
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You really need to retreat out of Trevenant each turn. And you can't just run switch as you are not going to win a game with 4/5 attacks with Gengar. Weakness policy is nice, but would only be good if Trevenant has theta double.
 
Hey I've actually been seeing this deck a lot more now. I've began to play it and figured out it has pretty amazing matchups. I have tech'ed some cards to improve some matchups.

M Manectric-EX:
2/3 Head Ringer
1-1/2-2 Dragalge

This is SUPER disruptive considering they can't play spirit link it makes it really hard for their survivability and it makes it even harder for them if you play crushing hammer. Also makes it so you can actually kill manectric instead of it just constantly retreating and using rough seas.

Yveltal-EX:
1/2 Dedenne FFI
1-1/2-2 Dragalge Line FLF

Yeah this matchup is still super hard to win. I've found enhanced hammer can help as well as head ringer but Dragalge is super annoying as you can 2HKO Yveltal-EX (With a Muscle Band) and Keep DCEs off of Zoroark and lock it down immediately. Also Dedenne trades prizes really well w/ Yveltal and Mega Rayquaza.
 
Elbow said:
You really need to retreat out of Trevenant each turn. And you can't just run switch as you are not going to win a game with 4/5 attacks with Gengar. Weakness policy is nice, but would only be good if Trevenant has theta double.
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Oh, I'm more thinking of a variant that is more focused in energy denial and attacking with Trevenant itself. Yeah, you need Float Stone in TrevGar.
 
Solo Trevenant is more decent than people give it credit for, in my opinion...tech in a few Weakness Policy and you cover the Dark matchup pretty well, with the new Break you'll be able to attack with 1 Energy with Dimension Valley and you still have Tree Slam for a bit more damage. Plus, the new Phantump (with Ascension) gives you a higher chance of getting Trevenant on your first turn, which means Break evolution (and +50hp) on turn 2. So, if you get to go first, you dig for that Wally. If not, you attach to Phantump and use Ascension to instantly evolve to Trevenant.

Gengar/Trevenant always seemed quite clunky to me, lots of Energy requirements and attachments, though it's been doing well. Item Lock seems to do well against Yveltal from my experience, so cutting out the Gengars, Dragalges etc. and just streamlining the deck to get out Trevenants turn after turn (with Super Rods and Sacred Ash for recycling) would be a good idea to try.
 
I think I agree - straight Trevenant with a couple of Weakness Policy sounds like something that could be worth a try. Probably better once the BREAK and Ascention Phantump come out too.
 
I can't see how hitting for 60 and 20 to 2 bench pokemon can be that good. At the minimum, you are 3HKOing EXs and some megas are 4HKOs (without a muscle band). Sure, you have energy denial, but it's not going to last the entire game when you are only hitting for 60/80 damage. Weakness policy honestly does nothing for you. If an Yveltal has 2 energy on it and you have 3, it's already an OHKO. And even if you had only 2 energy from dimension valley, they can just drop a DCE and get the OHKO.
In addition, Gengar makes the deck so much better. For one, you do much more damage and poison. This gets a 2HKO on most EXs. Second, without it, you lose many more matchups. You definitely lose to any manectric deck, any Rayquaza deck, any Magnezone deck, etc. Hammers and grunts only get you so far, but unless if it's a mill or consistently damaging lock deck (Toad/Tina or Toad/Bats in expanded) then I fail to see how the deck will do well. People will draw into energies and it's only a matter of time before they have a 2 turn attach and you don't get a hammer or disruption card.
 
Not that I've done particularly extensive testing of it, but after playing with it a little bit, it's definitely a pretty low damage output and it misses being able to 2HKO EXs. It's not terrible, but it's not all that hard to overpower even under item lock.
 
In standard the deck is dead cause the appearence of D decks again, in Expanded a Trevenant deck can be good with the adittion of laserbanks. But still, you miss LTC to make it consistent.
 
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