Discussion What if...Wally Reprint?

Graven

Graven

Eminem TTGX
Member
I've been noticing a huge trend in making basic Pokemon really stronk in the metagame, whether it be Buzzboi, Rayquaza, Zeraora, or the new Tag Team GX cards. But this makes me wonder if Stage 2 evolution decks will even stand a chance in the meta. Sure, Gardevior and Solgaleo are strong decks, but by the time they set up against an opponent using strong basic Pokemon, they're either backed into a corner and/or behind in prize cards. The meta needs some sort of supporting card that can help set up Stage 2 decks early game to avoid playing a reactionary game against the dominating basics.

The meta needs Wally back.

If it wasn't known before, Wally could allow players to search their deck for a Stage 2 Pokemon and drop on a basic without the need for a Rare Candy, and could be used on Turn 1. A reprint of this card would be a godsend, and if PTCi allowed it to happen it it would cause Stage 2 decks to finally hold their own in the current meta, and may even cause the meta to become the most diverse yet for Pokemon TCG. While it is uncertain as to how it could be reprinted, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility considering how crazy the meta is right now.

What do you think? Will Wally be reprinted, and if so how? More importantly, should Wally be reprinted, or would another reprint to help Stage 2 decks be more believable/beneficial?
 
Wally wasn't that powerful lol.

It didn't have a Rare Candy effect, it was Evosoda but ignored evolution rules (i.e. being able to evolve on the first turn/first turn coming into play/evolved).

But yeah I agree I feel Wally should return.
 
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Graven said:
Wally could allow players to search their deck for a Stage 2 Pokemon and drop on a basic without the need for a Rare Candy
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You really oughta read a card before writing several paragraphs about it, because it most definitely did not allow you to do that.
 
I think hes trying to say "wally's training" which did do that, not just Wally which of course was never a good card outside of trev
 
AuraJackle said:
I think hes trying to say "wally's training" which did do that, not just Wally which of course was never a good card outside of trev
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Wally's Training couldn't do that either, though. It could evolve a Stage 1 into a Stage 2 unlike Wally, but it wasn't able to evolve a Basic into a Stage 2.
 
Rooie said:
Wally's Training couldn't do that either, though. It could evolve a Stage 1 into a Stage 2 unlike Wally, but it wasn't able to evolve a Basic into a Stage 2.
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Oh yea your right I was giving him the benefit of the doubt by not double checking the cards effect
 
PTCGLabs Employee 1: Hey, what older card do you think we should reprint?

PTCGLabs Employee 2: How about the card we literally just banned from Expanded?
 
Oof.

I completely missed the mark on that one (jeez, I even forgot the ban on Wally...). Plus I hyperfocused on Basics when a plethora of Stage 1 decks are dominant as well. I apologize in that regard. x_x

So, if Wally is not going to be reprinted, then what would be an option as a good reprint for set-up support in Stage 2 decks?
 
Graven said:
Oof.

I completely missed the mark on that one (jeez, I even forgot the ban on Wally...). Plus I hyperfocused on Basics when a plethora of Stage 1 decks are dominant as well. I apologize in that regard. x_x

So, if Wally is not going to be reprinted, then what would be an option as a good reprint for set-up support in Stage 2 decks?
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My first impulse would be to get rid of the Turn 1 clause on Rare Candy (meaning you can always play it whenever you have the basic in play and the Stage 2 in hand); however, with cards like Decidueye-GX and Solgaleo-GX in the game now, that would get real broken, real fast.

I really don’t think Stage 2 decks are in a bad place in this meta - off the top of my head, Metagross and Gardevoir currently are considered meta relevant (and the former even got Top 4 in Philly with another Stage 2 line stuffed into it!)
 
Graven said:
Oof.

I completely missed the mark on that one (jeez, I even forgot the ban on Wally...). Plus I hyperfocused on Basics when a plethora of Stage 1 decks are dominant as well. I apologize in that regard. x_x

So, if Wally is not going to be reprinted, then what would be an option as a good reprint for set-up support in Stage 2 decks?
Click to expand...
That one Meganium from Lost Thunder. It's ability has a Rare Candy effect, but without the T1 clause. You just slap it down.
 
Graven said:
So, if Wally is not going to be reprinted, then what would be an option as a good reprint for set-up support in Stage 2 decks?
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Nothing. The problem with Stage 2 Pokémon is not that they are too slow, but that everything else is too fast and/or does too much.

  1. We need Evolving Basic and Evolving Stage 1 Pokémon to be worthwhile, to mitigate the card advantage a Basic Pokémon has over an Evolution.

  2. We need all Pokémon to know their roles. When a good Basic attacker is a lousy opener, the deck is forced to waste early turns/attacks getting set up or run a different Pokémon to open... which mitigates the card advantage that a Basic Pokémon has over an Evolution.

  3. We need everything paced so that nothing hitting the field during a player's first turn can swing for damage. I'd prefer the first turn be reserved for attacks that aid in setting up or in disrupting your opponent's set up (maybe only the former).
Why? The powers-that-be have spent over two decades - referencing the Japanese start date - mostly trying to balance things out by making Evolutions faster or strong than Basics. Unsurprisingly, this doesn't work, though it has faked it at times. Instead of making one Stage naturally stronger than others, then tweaking the rules or card pool for balance, try making the end results equal and figuring out how to adjust the inputs to make it happen. :)
 
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Wally would make naganadel GX and Zoroark GX overpowered. A potential 180 hit on the first turn. (naganadel with choice band, beast energy, full bench)
 
Lord Goomy said:
That one Meganium from Lost Thunder. It's ability has a Rare Candy effect, but without the T1 clause. You just slap it down.
Click to expand...

Lord Goomy said:
Sorry, it doesn't Rare Candy itself: it gives the Rare Candy effect to other Pokémon.
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This card would be absolutely phenomenal for Stage 2 decks...but as a Stage 2 itself, it probably would make Stage 2 decks clunkier. If only that ability was on a Stage 1...
 
So, from what I've gathered, a good idea would be to make a Stage 1 Evolution Pokemon that has an Meganium's (Lost Thunder) ability:

Non-EX/GX Stage 1 Pokemon, 80-110 HP w/ Meganium's (Lost Thunder) Ability and One 2(Any)1(C) Attack
That pros: Stage 2 Decks are faster at setting up since the Pokemon is a Stage 1-possibly by turn 2, and the set-up is all Stage 2 Decks mostly need to get sh*t done. Plus, most non-EX/GX Basic/Stage 1 Pokemon won't be able to one-shot it.
The cons: It can't be used on T1 due to no T1 clause, and would be susceptible to EX/GX Basics, most Stage 1 Pokemon, and all Stage 2 Pokemon due to it's low HP and middling attack.

I feel this would be a good balance for this type of set-up card. Stage 1 is not clunky for a Stage 2 deck, but not overly broken for it. It can't be used on T1 and is relatively weak in both HP and Atk, making it a relatively easy KO for a good chunk of the meta. Would I like this card to straight up be a Basi-YES. Yes I would, but that would make Stage 2 Decks absolutely terrifying with the sole fact of T1 Evolutions for Stage 2's being thing again (unless stated otherwise). That would be broke as all fudge, unless they make a Prism Star Basic with Meganium's ability in which case that's completely fine and justified.

Other than that, do you all think this could work as a Pokemon Card Concept, and would Pokemon even consider an idea such as this (assuming they have or will think about it in their studios)? Would you all prefer the concept as a Stage 1 as described above, or some Basic Prism Star variant?
 
Mega Mewthree... said:
Wally would make naganadel GX and Zoroark GX overpowered. A potential 180 hit on the first turn. (naganadel with choice band, beast energy, full bench)
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Both Zoroark and Naganadel were legal with Wally towards the end of last season, so that's obviously not true (Zoroark needs the early board setup through Brigette/Fan Club/Apricorn Maker, and for Naganadel, it's pretty much impossible to get CB, Beast Energy, and FIVE Ultra Beasts on the Bench without playing a draw supporter...)
 
Mega Mewthree... said:
Wally would make naganadel GX and Zoroark GX overpowered. A potential 180 hit on the first turn. (naganadel with choice band, beast energy, full bench)
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Still can't happen earlier than T2; no attacking T1. I realize Mega Mewthree and most readers are going to understand that but I've seen it misunderstood too often. If we aren't using overall turn count, then it would still be "A potential 180 hit on Player 2's first turn." ;) No, I didn't just post to nitpick. >.> I was going to respond to a response to this one anyway, so I figured I'd weigh in on that while I was at it. ^^' The more serious stuff just overlaps with what I'll be saying next...

Timmony_tcg said:
Both Zoroark and Naganadel were legal with Wally towards the end of last season, so that's obviously not true (Zoroark needs the early board setup through Brigette/Fan Club/Apricorn Maker, and for Naganadel, it's pretty much impossible to get CB, Beast Energy, and FIVE Ultra Beasts on the Bench without playing a draw supporter...)
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The full point is that we've had a Standard Format where Naganadel-GX, Wally, and Zoroark-GX were all legal but it is possible the changes to the cardpool- and thus the metagame - which have already happened or which will happen during the rest of this Format could still cause problems. Keeping the metagame balanced requires the powers-that-be stay three steps ahead of both us and - in a sense - themselves. So far, no single card has been printed that is broken regardless of the other cards in the metagame; some require a lot to be changed in order to be balanced, but it is possible. Either player getting Zoroark-GX on the first turn, barring bad luck where they cannot afford to discard a single card from hand, gets a two card "rebate."

Oh! Let's expand the hypothetical to demonstrate. I do not think something like what I'm about to say will happen but what if we got Wally back plus

  • Special Charge
  • Sky Field

What happens with Zoroark-GX decks? We're pretty much back to decks being able to run on just four Double Colorless Energy, which matters because that means more room for Items a player can spam. We also have more Bench space. Put it all together; Zoroark-GX decks start going second because they can Wally into Zoroark-GX pretty reliably (Tapu Lele-GX), then keep Benching Oranguru (SUM) and Marshadow (SLG) and spamming search (or other) Items to thin the hand while filling out the Bench... and if that player hits a Sky Field your opponent had better have started with a Sudowoodo (GRI) or you're likely to take a reliable OHKO and keep at it the rest of the game.
 
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