Strategy What Team Do You Want to Use in 7th Gen Competitive?

[Bolt the Cat]

Sun and Moon are bringing huge changes to the competitive scene with new Pokemon and the new Alola Forms. Certainly, some of these Pokemon will see use in competitive alongside some existing Pokemon. So what do you think your 7th gen competitive team will be like? What Pokemon will you be using and what abilities and movesets do you think you'll run?

For more casual discussion on teambuilding in Sun and Moon see the “What Team Do You Want to Use in the Storyline?” thread here: http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/threads/what-team-do-you-want-to-use-in-the-storyline.135195/

 

[Sabaku]

In terms of the VGC format, Tapu Koko is definitely going to see some usage by virtue of Electric Terrain alone. We haven't gotten any Alolan Form Pokemon yet that scream "use me!", but Alolan Marowak shows some promise if there's any good physical Ghost type moves that show up this generation. I can definitely see some people trying to get something out of Mimikyuu and that meteor-looking Pokemon as well, but we'll see.

 

[Scattered mind]

Comfey and Drampa

Comfey's ability to use healing moves with the highest priority seems to be really helpful to Drampa, with its ability to boost its Special attack after being hit. Their types also fit well (Dragon+Fairy). Of course, this strategy fits double battles more than singles. Similar strategies can be done with Mudsdale (Stamina) and other Pokemon that get a boost when they get attacked.

 

[Bolt the Cat]

If its stats are good enough, I might try Bruxish. Immunity against priority moves should be pretty useful and they seem to be setting it up to be a Talonflame counter.

 

[Sabaku]

If its stats are good enough, I might try Bruxish. Immunity against priority moves should be pretty useful and they seem to be setting it up to be a Talonflame counter.

Bad/non-ideal stats can be easily overshadowed in the face of good abilities and typing (a lesson that Talonflame, Azumarill, and many a Prankster and Mega Evolution user went on to teach later). I'm sure something like Bruxish will find some usage, even if its stats are subpar.

 

[Scattered mind]

Bad/non-ideal stats can be easily overshadowed in the face of good abilities and typing (a lesson that Talonflame, Azumarill, and many a Prankster and Mega Evolution user went on to teach later). I'm sure something like Bruxish will find some usage, even if its stats are subpar.

Yep. Simply the existence of Bruxish might be enough to make people think twice before running CB Talonflame. The days of spamming Brave Bird may be over for good.

 

[Sabaku]

Yep. Simply the existence of Bruxish might be enough to make people think twice before running CB Talonflame. The days of spamming Brave Bird may be over for good.

That all hinges on how good the crowd is for 2016-17. In the face of the National Dex in '15, Talonflame played a minor role, and in '16, I think it was mainly a tech of sorts on some decks. Let's just wait and see for now. For all we know, we could get something as busted as Mega Kangaskhan again.

 

[Scattered mind]

I meant Talonflame in Battle Spot singles and OU. In VGC I believe Talonflame is only good as a support mon, right?

 

[Sabaku]

I meant Talonflame in Battle Spot singles and OU. In VGC I believe Talonflame is only good as a support mon, right?

Back in 2014, he was a central figure for a lot of teams that were looking to make Top Cut. His priority attacks and decent attack stat made him ideal for picking off squishy targets that Mega Kangaskhan/Mawile left lying around and cleaning up games. In 2015, his usage went down due to the presence of bulkier targets or additional Pokemon using Intimidate. He still got used, but he wasn't as prominent. I'm omitting 2016 because almost all Pokemon there that weren't major Legendary Pokemon or Mega Evolutions were used as techs against specific threats. He's useful as a tech, but he can still carry teams offensively.

 

[TheRealBro..]

but Alolan Marowak shows some promise if there's any good physical Ghost type moves that show up this generation

Well, with the stat spread staying the same as regular Marowak, it won't be any good (at least in Singles OU). It has to carry a Thick Club to deal any damage at all, and then, yes it hits hard, but is really slow. Trick room could work with it, but even then bulky water types still ruin it.

The Pokemon from this gen I look forward to most are Tapu Bulu and Golisopod. Would like to use them on my competitive team.

Golisopod with; Swords Dance, Leech Life, Aqua Jet and Brick Break. Item; Life Orb/Leftovers.
Tapu Bulu with; Don't know yet, either a defensive set with Woodhammer, or an all out attacking set with Stone edge, Megahorn, Woodhammer and Brick Break @ Life Orb.

 

[Professor Palutena]

If its stats are good enough, I might try Bruxish. Immunity against priority moves should be pretty useful and they seem to be setting it up to be a Talonflame counter.

With the Gale Wings nerf, Talonflame has so many other issues that Bruxish isn't one of them.

Gale Wings only works at full HP now so Talonflame is dead.

Well, with the stat spread staying the same as regular Marowak, it won't be any good (at least in Singles OU). It has to carry a Thick Club to deal any damage at all, and then, yes it hits hard, but is really slow. Trick room could work with it, but even then bulky water types still ruin it.

Alolan Marowak has Rock Head Flare Blitz as a niche so that's something. I doubt it'll be used in singles OU though.

In terms of the VGC format, Tapu Koko is definitely going to see some usage by virtue of Electric Terrain alone. We haven't gotten any Alolan Form Pokemon yet that scream "use me!"

Alolan Raichu and Tapu Koko are going to be an incredible VGC core, guaranteed.

 

[Sabaku]

Alolan Raichu and Tapu Koko are going to be an incredible VGC core, guaranteed.

Actually, I was thinking something more along the lines of a Tapu Koko / Salamence core. Tapu Koko is immune to Dragon and resists Electric while Salamence is immune to Ground and has Intimidate to reduce damage from attackers like Garchomp.

 

[Professor Palutena]

Raichu is better because literally nothing can outspeed it due to Surge Surfer, as nothing reaches 700 speed. Throw a Choice Specs on it for immediate power, as Electric Terrain gives its Electric attacks a 50% power boost (the equivalent of Choice Specs), or go for Nasty Plot and watch the carnage.

VGC relies on offensive cores moreso than defensive synergy, as most teams are able to win within 4 turns.

 

[Sabaku]

Raichu is better because literally nothing can outspeed it due to Surge Surfer, as nothing reaches 700 speed. Throw a Choice Specs on it for immediate power, as Electric Terrain gives its Electric attacks a 50% power boost (the equivalent of Choice Specs), or go for Nasty Plot and watch the carnage.

VGC relies on offensive cores moreso than defensive synergy, as most teams are able to win within 4 turns.

I've been doing VGCs for a while, and I have to agree with this. Doubles matches can go very quickly, and most opponents are going to go out of the way to take out the opponent's team as quickly as possible. With that said, there's a lot of value in diffusing a team's offensive potential. Intimidate activates as soon as the user switches in, and the debuff turns a lot of potential OHKOes into 2HKOes (or 2HKOes into 3HKOes if you don't trust your offensive power). Since Z-Crystals mimic the properties of Gems from 5th gen, they will be used a lot, but being single-use makes them a lot more balanced than Gems ever were. They'll probably be used a lot on speedy Special Attackers such as Tapu Koko and Salamence (mainly because few to no moves/abilities can lower Sp. Atk) or bulky weather setters like Politoed. I can see it being an especially common trend for Salamence since it's basically a Gemmed Draco Meteor without the Sp. Atk drop. Watch your backs, everyone.

 

[Professor Palutena]

I've been doing VGCs for a while, and I have to agree with this. Doubles matches can go very quickly, and most opponents are going to go out of the way to take out the opponent's team as quickly as possible. With that said, there's a lot of value in diffusing a team's offensive potential. Intimidate activates as soon as the user switches in, and the debuff turns a lot of potential OHKOes into 2HKOes (or 2HKOes into 3HKOes if you don't trust your offensive power). Since Z-Crystals mimic the properties of Gems from 5th gen, they will be used a lot, but being single-use makes them a lot more balanced than Gems ever were. They'll probably be used a lot on speedy Special Attackers such as Tapu Koko and Salamence (mainly because few to no moves/abilities can lower Sp. Atk) or bulky weather setters like Politoed. I can see it being an especially common trend for Salamence since it's basically a Gemmed Draco Meteor without the Sp. Atk drop. Watch your backs, everyone.

Yeah, I can agree with this. I'd be surprised if Mence dropped from its role as the best VGC mega, especially now that Gems are back as well.

Anyways, these are my opinions:

- Decidueye is decidedly average. I don't see it having much use in singles, as Defog is really its only claim to fame. It's too slow. I don't see it being used in VGC either.
- Incineroar will have a place in VGC with Intimidate and Fake Out, which is unique to it. I don't see it being used much in higher tier singles, though as the sole possessor of the strongest Dark move, I could see it finding a place in RU.
- Primarina is one of the strongest Water types in terms of raw power (only Keldeo beats it, so it's the strongest for VGC). Singles wise, it's too slow and the physical bulk is too low to be used much. In doubles, Water-type Hyper Voice is cool off of the 126 SpA but it's a one trick seal aside from that niche.

- Toucannon is lame. Skill Link is it's best set for Rock Blast and Bullet Seed (it gets no STAB for Sheer Force and all of its options are low BP). Beak Blast is bad since I think it's a two turn move. Choice Band is its best set.
- Gumshoos boasts the strongest attack in the game with Stakeout (not joking), though you have to deal with the abysmal speed. Could be scary in the lower tiers, but that speed dooms it in most environments. It won't be used in VGC.
- Vikavolt is screwed with that speed. It lacks the bulk and typing to be too useful. Not worth it.
- Crabominable is awful with that speed stat. Bulky Ice types don't work, especially with that many weaknesses.
- Oricorio is a literal gimmick.
- Ribombee isn't that bad actually. QuiverPass will be useful given it's already high speed, and it's defensive typing is cool too. VGC will love it for Speed Swap.
- Lycanroc Midday will have a niche for Rock priority, though it's basically Aerodactyl without the flying type. Midnight form is bad.
- Wishiwashi sounds cool in theory but it's low HP and speed will wreck it. It's too reliant on Sitrus Berry too. The only good set would be RestTalk.
- Toxipex is one of the best new Pokemon for singles. That bulk, Recover and Regenerator will be so useful. Easy OU.

- Mudsdale is an average Ground type. It would be really good with recovery but it's doomed to lower tiers without it.
- Araquanid is awful. Don't use it.
- Lurantis is also bad. Low speed and no coverage will doom it.
- Shiinotic is a variant of Amoonguss. Spotlight will give it a niche in VGC as it's quite possibly the best move in the game now with Dark Void nerfed. Singles probably won't use it.
- Salazzle is too frail for high tiers, and the ability is redundant given it's Fire type. It's nice for a fast fire type and the fast poison attacks may give it an OU niche.
- Bewear is bulkier than Mega Steelix, and I would say it could go OU if it got Drain Punch but it doesn't. Watch this guy though come the next games when we'll get tutors.
- Tsareena is awful with her strongest STAB being 70BP and little coverage.
- Comfey could be cool in VGC, especially with Tapu Bulu. Too weak for singles.
- Oranguru is outclassed by Smeargle at its niche.
- Passimian is too slow, and I still don't like Receiver
- Golisopod could be cool as a pivot, though I wish it had U-Turn. I like the bulk on it
- Pallossand isn't as good as I thought. I wish it got Will-o-Wisp and that Water Compaction gave it an immunity. It's a lot like Golurk.
- Pyukumuku is garbage

- Minior sounds cool with Shell Smash + White Herb + Acrobatics. Willing to give it a shot, as I think it's a better Aerodactyl.
- Komola could be good, though I kinda doubt it. It's too average in its non-Attack stats.
- Turtonator's signature move is like a reverse Focus Punch, where you want to get hit. It's synergetic with Shell Smash so I could see it getting some use for mindgames.
- Togedemaru is awful
- Mimikyu has potential with how incredible Disguise is. If you can force a switch and set up a Sub, you can use your disguise turn to set up an SD and go to town.
- Bruxish has a solid Strong Jaw set though it's too average in the sea of Water types for much use.
- Drampa is a special version of Druddigon, though I like that it has recovery and an insane movepool. Could be good in the lower tiers.
- Dhelmise is a Ghost type spinner, so that gives it a really good niche. It can 2HKO Mega Sableye with some attack investment.
- Kommo-o could be good with the many different ways of boosting that it has. It's limited on the Fighting side to just Sky Uppercut, so I don't see it breaking into OU.
- Silvally will probably be UU, though I'll admit I'd love a Flying type version of it in OU.

- Tapu Koko will be really good in VGC and lower OU. Electric Terrain will be good.
- Tapu Lele is top tier OU with how strong it is. Literally a better Gardevoir.
- Tapu Bulu is probably the worst by a decent margin. Probably UU/RU.
- Tapu Fini could be good, though it probably won't be OU.
- Solgaleo is Uber
- so is Lunala
- Nihilego is 4x weak to Earthquake and it's lacking in physical bulk so I doubt it'll be in the higher tiers. It is a fast Rocker though.
- Buzzwole lacks strong Bug and Fighting stabs, and it's really slow so I doubt it'll be good
- Pheromosa is broken
- Xurkitree lacks the speed and bulk to be really good, and it's lacking in coverage to be a good wallbreaker
- Celesteela is weird, but not in the good way. It's too average and too slow. Autonomize sets would be the only thing that could work.
- Kartana is going to Ubers
- Guzzlord is bulky, though it has seven weaknesses and no recovery. Outclassed by Chansey
- Necrozma has too narrow of a movepool to be good
- Magearna is solid. Easy OU.
- Marshadow will go to Ubers day 1

- Alolan Raticate is awful
- Alolan Raichu will be good on Electric Terrain teams and not much outside of them
- Alolan Persian has cool utility moves like Parting Shot alongside Fur Coat. Niche use in lower tiers.
- Alolan Muk is a straight buff on regular Muk due to Dark type and STAB Knock Off, though that's still not saying much
- Alolan Dugtrio isn't good since it lost Arena Trap. Though it'd probably be broken with it.
- Alolan Marowak could be cool with a solid set of resistances, and it still gets the Thick Club boost. Trick Room might like this.
- Alolan Golem is better than the original, and I like Electric Explosion. I could see it being useful on Electric Terrain teams.
- Alolan Sandslash could be good, and Hail will like the Steel type. I think it's the better Slush Rush user due to its speed.
- Alolan Ninetales could bring Hail to OU, and it's able to fight most of the other weather setters (Pelipper dies to Freeze Dry, Tyranitar is 2HKOed in sand by Moonblast, Hippowdon dies to Freeze Dry, which just leaves Torkoal, though you beat all of the Chlorophyll mons)
- Alolan Exeggutor might be worth it, as it gets a nice movepool now.

- Pelipper is going to OU with Drizzle
- Torkoal might have a place in OU with Drought
- Gigalith and Vanilluxe are too outclassed by Hippowdon and Ninetales
- Beartic will be a Hail staple with Slush Rush
- Dugtrio might get banned with the attack boost
- Dodrio has a solid OU niche with the speed boost and Jump Kick
- Mantine might be going OU with Roost and the HP buff
- Swellow is much better now. Probably UU.

 

[TheRealBro..]

Alolan Raichu and Tapu Koko are going to be an incredible VGC core, guaranteed.

Kommo-o could be good with the many different ways of boosting that it has. It's limited on the Fighting side to just Sky Uppercut, so I don't see it breaking into OU.

I agree with most. Here's a few opinions;

I think Kommo-0 will definitely be OU, at least in Battle Spot Singles. It's raw bulk and almost perfect typing (offensively) will grant it many opportunities to set up a dragon dance by forcing switches. Once it has one it will be Dragonite+1, but with a much better stab move in Sky Uppercut.

Sure, Brave Bird Talonflame could be a thing, but if you set up a sub on the switch or invest in it's bulk a bit, you can just take the Brave Bird and Outrage it to death. I can see this set (substitute (or Poison Jab)/Dragon Dance/Sky Uppercuct/Outrage) being a real beast in OU.

I kind of doubt Kartana will be Uber, again, speaking from a Battle Spott singles point of view. It's stabs don't work against Fire or Steel types, and it gets destroyed by them or any fire attack whatsoever (Heatran? ouch). Also M-Lucario Vaccuum Wave or any strong special attack. Have not seen it's move set yet, that might change my opinion.

Decidueye will be hard to use, but I think it's possible in OU. Swords Dance Sucker Punch with high attack is Always nice if you're good at playing mind games. Maybe give it subsitute to watch out for Ice/Fire types and burns. Still, it won't be a big threat.

Alolan Exeggutor will unfortunately not be worth it in my opinion because of it's typing and low speed. 4x Ice weakness, bug, poison, dragon, fairy and steel weakness and it can't do much to steel types in return. Ice shard will ruin it under trick room, which is Always difficult to set up anyway.

The Raichu Tapu Coco core will be good in VGC I guess ( I only play singles) but won't earthquake be a big problem then? One of the reasons I don't like using Electric Pokemon is because they get countered so hard by almost every ground type, and hidden power ice doesn't help in many cases.

As for Tapu Bulu, yeah it didn't come out on top, but I'll find a spot for it It has high base stats so there should be some use for it if you think hard!

Palossand is a lost opportunity indeed. Neat ability, but water attacks ar almost mostly special and it faints after 1 powerfull surf... So yeah. Araquanid.. I don't know what they were thinking. It looks so awesome that it deserved something better then this... Maybe for Spider Web, but i never found that as usefull as it sounds..

Marshadow is the ultimate Mega Khan counter.. Faster without much investment, and pretty bulky besides packing a big punch. There appears a big grin on my face as I picture sending it out while M-Khan uses fake out, or double edge, or power up punch, or whatever, only to see it fail while sucker punch doesn't do shit either as it's not super effective and doesn't get stab, and you Close Combat it (assuming it gets that) to death. Unfortunately you won't be able to use it in Battle Spot (I guess), such a shame!

 

[Professor Palutena]

I really want to try Hail with Ninetales-A, but I can't come up with any teammates. Anyone have ideas?

Right now, I'm wanting to try Rain because Pelipper is hype. My VGC team is looking like Pelipper/Tapu Koko/Raichu-A/Kingdra/Tapu Lele/Smeargle

 

[TheRealBro..]

I really want to try Hail with Ninetales-A, but I can't come up with any teammates. Anyone have ideas?

Well, I don't play VGC, only singles (might change that in the future) but the first thing I would worry about when using Alolan Ninetales is Bullet Punch Scizor (or any Bullet Punch). Bruxish could actually be a good partner in that sense for blocking priority and being resistant to both Fire and Steel.

 

[Professor Palutena]

Well, I don't play VGC, only singles (might change that in the future) but the first thing I would worry about when using Alolan Ninetales is Bullet Punch Scizor (or any Bullet Punch). Bruxish could actually be a good partner in that sense for blocking priority and being resistant to both Fire and Steel.

Yeah, I mainly play Singles too which is part of the problem.

Bruxish sounds cool but Bruxish is weak to Leech Life so that won't work.

I might end up using Marowak or Chandelure.

 

[TheRealBro..]

Yeah, I mainly play Singles too which is part of the problem.

Bruxish sounds cool but Bruxish is weak to Leech Life so that won't work.

I might end up using Marowak or Chandelure.

Aah, ok. Well, it's kind of hard to predict how the metagame is going to shape with all the nerfs and new Pokemon. Normally I would say both Gengar and Talonflame would be huge issues to Alolan Ninetales but they might drop in usage enormously.

I guess anything with a fire or steel typing and/or good defense stat will partner up good with it. Unfortunately that excludes most ice types that would want to take advantage of the hail.. Ice is just such a bad typing and I don't think the buffs it got (hail being better now, and better hail abilities) will change that. Stealth Rock will remain a problem too.

I myself did some calculations on Tapu Bulu and it's woodhammer attack is insane. With Grassy Surge it would be 180 Base Power (plus stab bonus) coming off of 130 attack. It's too bad Grass offense is often 4x resisted.. Another possibility is a leech seed set which could be very annoying to face with leftovers, grassy terrain recovery and possibly protect (did this all the time with Whimsicott @ protect/leech seed/moonblast/substitute forcing so many forfeits). My usual team is mostly ghosts and some water types so the Dark/Dragon resist is welcome too!

What do you think will be big threats early this gen in singles? Have to say I'm really happy Talonflame got nerfed because priority Brave Birds are pretty annoying. If only they deleted Parental Bond.. Sending in your Gengar to avoid power up punch only to be frozen solid by the second ice punch.. The memories..